Stupid. Just ticket the people congregating.

What I can’t believe is the number of old people going for walks in the park here, and just like usual, walking right down the middle of the path (with a few feet between them so that a couple can block the whole path), instead of moving to one side. Couldn’t keep your distance from them while running if you tried.

I was actually just realizing it the other day - I haven't heard of any murders or shootings in weeks. Is the news cycle just so completely engrossed in the Covid stuff that it's going unreported, or are the lockdowns actually having a suppressing effect on crime rates?

I go for walk on the trails here by my house every day and run into people of all ages and I can't blame older folks wanting to get out and go walk. I think the likelihood of them catching something from a leisurely walk on the trail is slim to none unless they stop and congregate. I did briefly stopped a chatted with my 60-70 something neighbors but we kept at least 6 feet apart. Hanging out in crowded parks is another issue.

It seems both Republicans and Democrats foolishly think “the government” is some abstract entity and not, well, them.

Republicans don’t want “the government” telling them what to do, even though the government’s actions are only the collective will of themselves and the rest of the body politic.

And then some Democrats talk as if “the government” should just pay for things or forgive debts or make things free, as if the government’s money isn’t their and everyone else’s money.

I graduated college without student loan debt. If the government forgives or cancels all student loan debt, then I am personally worse off. I’m not indifferent, or neutral, I am financially harmed by it. Do people not understand why there is no consensus on these things?

Yes but given their vulnerability, you would think that just for once they would not be assholes and try to stick to the side of the path, and at least let people try to give them space.

There was a meme about coronavirus actually reducing deaths in Chicago. Sad thing is that it could be temporarily true.

Destroying a younger person’s career prospects or financial stability is worse than ending a very old person’s life a couple years early.

Not sure how things are where everyone else is but people around here instinctively veer away from each other as soon as they come within close proximity. All of a sudden people are respecting others' personal space.

I also graduated college without any student loan debt. How would you and I be worse off personally if all of a sudden, colleges were tuition-free (as community colleges have become again in California) and all student loan debts were canceled?

This is actually questionable.

Without making any values judgment, the fact is that old people dying doesn’t have much in the way of economic impact.

The media hysteria could still be an issue, if it made (younger, healthy) people scared to go to work, but that’s also a matter of overreaction and not the disease itself.

Because we would be the ones paying off those student loans, and paying for tuition on an ongoing basis, through our taxes. How is this not obvious?

And for me, having gone to a good state university, my degree would eventually be devalued somewhat as the quality of education declined. Though I am probably far enough into my career that this doesn’t matter.

Which is great. I'm all about having a more educated, skilled society. If more people win, we are all better off as an economy.

^ free college for all doesn't everyone will take advantage of it and then take it seriously. Kinda like high school now. Lot of wasted resources on so many who shouldn't be there.

This. I graduated college with a crap load of student loans a struggled with them for over a decade before finally paying them off. This was after moving to Texas and going to a community college to mitigate costs. If anything, the interest should be widdled down to maybe a half a percent to pay for banks or whoever to service the loans but it isn't the principles that is hammering everyone but the interest rates. We pay a fuck ton enough for federal taxes and not keen on paying any more.

Don't go to the most expensive/prestigious school if repayment is going to be an issue 5-10-15 years down the road.

You went to a STATE university? As in, some taxpayers who didn't even attend that state's university system subsized your education?

You commie!

Lol

It's not just old people suffering severe illnesses, and if the hospitals are overrun with patients many of those who are hospitalized but would otherwise survive are also in danger of dying: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/...e2.htm#T1_down

So even if some people are OK with sacrificing their older loved ones right now for the sake of their 401Ks, that still doesn't mean they'll be around to enjoy the payout in retirement 30 years from now.

It's a very delicate situation and it isn't as easy as "let the economy fail" vs "save lives". The economy is going to suffer and people are going to die, we're all still learning in real time the real consequences. It's a scary time.

I think many haven't considered how much better off the economy would be if everyone were healthy, educated, and productive. Universal healthcare and free college tuition would be great even for extremely selfish reasons. There are certain very narrow but powerful segments of society that have brainwashed us to believe otherwise.

Life is largely a cost-benefit analysis. Yes, some older folks will probably pass somewhat earlier than otherwise if it means society continues. I think most older folks would agree, and would not seek to harm their grandchildren.

ok? what does that have to do with the great context of my post?

I find it pretty laughable that even a large minority of people over 50 are willing to die to save the economy. I'd love to see a poll of some kind.

Would you die to save 10023's retirement fund?

Free college doesn't mean "more educated, skilled society". It usually just means a ton of oversubscribed, uniformly mediocre universities (see Germany).

There's a middle ground. People generally shouldn't be paying 50k a year, but universally free isn't sustainable.

Right??

We pay taxes anyway. And those people whose loans were "forgiven" would also be paying taxes, and hence wouldn't really be getting a "free ride," because they are also paying off those student loans with their other fellow taxpayers. How is *that* not obvious?

Pobrecito! Waaah, waaah...

So why were you mentioning it in the first place?

It's not "willing to die". It's "willing to take reasonable steps like temporary self-isolation". My parents are doing this, and want the economy reopened ASAP.

And I have previously said I would sacrifice myself if it meant my son had a guarantee of a brighter future. I mean it.

Fair enough

Even if the economy suddenly snapped back to December 2019 levels, how is that a guarantee to anyone of a brighter future?