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-   -   CHICAGO | The 78 Site (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum//showthread.php?t=233449)

Leveled Dec 14, 2018 3:29 PM

I would consider the subway stop absolutely essential.

If for nothing else than to drive the wrong sort of people out of downtown.

JK47 Dec 14, 2018 6:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 8408202)
I’m not sure about this. A subway here will pretty much only take you into the Loop and Cubs games, etc.


You're kidding right. A subway station here connects you to the station at Roosevelt where you can transfer to the Green or Orange Lines as well as the station at Jackson that lets you transfer to the Blue and is half a block (within line of sight) of the Brown Line stop at Library. Further from the Loop you have access to the express buses heading south and north as well as the East/West bus routes which run through the Loop Link.

I spent 12 years car-less in the city. This is absolutely a great location for a subway station and putting one here will definitely make living without a car a lot easier.

BonoboZill4 Dec 15, 2018 1:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 8408202)
I’m not sure about this. A subway here will pretty much only take you into the Loop and Cubs games, etc.

I’m willing to bet that even without a subway stop, this district will have a huge car-free population. Having a subway stop will only make commuting that much easier

Why are you contradicting yourself?

the urban politician Dec 15, 2018 3:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonoboZill4 (Post 8409577)
Why are you contradicting yourself?

I'm not. It's all in your mind

the urban politician Dec 15, 2018 3:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JK47 (Post 8409064)
You're kidding right. A subway station here connects you to the station at Roosevelt where you can transfer to the Green or Orange Lines as well as the station at Jackson that lets you transfer to the Blue and is half a block (within line of sight) of the Brown Line stop at Library. Further from the Loop you have access to the express buses heading south and north as well as the East/West bus routes which run through the Loop Link.

I spent 12 years car-less in the city. This is absolutely a great location for a subway station and putting one here will definitely make living without a car a lot easier.

I fully understand all that.

I'm just saying that if a subway stop here isn't built on day one, it's not the disaster that Emathias is predicting. You can still have a car light population here. Just because a subway stop is here doesn't mean people would use it for daily errands like groceries, etc, and commuting downtown is not easy by any measure by automobile. The best way to create a car light population is to have many resources available within walking distance.

I do hope they build the subway stop sooner than later, though

pilsenarch Dec 18, 2018 10:49 PM

https://www.facebook.com/hellosouthl...c_location=ufi

Not sure if you need to be a member of this group to view the video... but the cries of "this will kill all our children" were very strong...

https://related.box.com/s/q25w61osya...4l4ci2fxljx5yf

ardecila Dec 19, 2018 1:34 AM

^ No, you don’t need to be a member to view. Obviously there is opposition to the subway stop, but the crowd seems generally supportive or agnostic about The 78 itself, and it’s hard to tell from the video how many people actually showed up to oppose the station. The “Save Cottontail Park” FB group only has 36 members, nothing like the opposition we are seeing to Lincoln Yards for example. This is really a Dearborn Park specific issue, not something that is likely to stir up opposition from the broader South Loop.

pilsenarch Dec 19, 2018 11:52 PM

^ agree that the opposition is focused on the new proposed redline stop and not the "78" itself necessarily... was actually kind of impressed with the design of the stop presented by Carol Ross Barney herself...

emathias Dec 20, 2018 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 8409687)
I fully understand all that.

I'm just saying that if a subway stop here isn't built on day one, it's not the disaster that Emathias is predicting. You can still have a car light population here. Just because a subway stop is here doesn't mean people would use it for daily errands like groceries, etc, and commuting downtown is not easy by any measure by automobile. The best way to create a car light population is to have many resources available within walking distance.

I do hope they build the subway stop sooner than later, though

Maybe, but are people going to want to be isolated from the rest of the city? They won't be able to go west in foot. Going east will be a challenge, too. Going south is easy, but there is a park between then and anything else, so the people at the North end might feel okay being transit-bound, but I don't think anyone else there would unless there is a subway stop. East Lincoln Park gets by with only busses because it has a ton of busses, 22/Clark, 36/Broadway, 151, 156, 143, 134, 8/Halsted, 37/Lincoln, and that's just the north south options. Unless the CTA makes changes (which I hope they will), the 78 will have 24/Wentworth on Clark and, on the other side of DP2, 29/State. That's a huge difference, and adding a route on the Wells-Wentworth Connector will probably happen, but it'll run, what, every ten minutes at best? Adding busses to Clark would be a challenge. But a lot of that goes away with the 15th Street station, especially since, when it's available, people prefer trains.

By "New York style" station I meant with no mezzanine, stairs down, fare control, right into the platform. I don't see why a station attendant needs to be at all entrances (plenty of stations have secondary entrances unmanned), and depending on how deep the tunnel is, digging slightly wider for stairs wouldn't be that hard. They're is also zero need to switch platforms at 15th, since there are no connections and if you missed your stop, you can switch back at Roosevelt or Cermak, both if which have center platforms. But my suggestion is really only valid if the trains are running just below the surface there, like they do on Broadway or Lexington in Manhattan.

Tcmetro Dec 20, 2018 10:51 AM

Maybe going a little off-topic discussing the bus routes, but having some sort of bus terminal near "The 78" will really improve access.

Extend routes from the north side that end downtown. The 22-Clark is a very frequent, 24 hour bus that already ends at Polk. It would be a few more blocks to 16th St. Other buses that could be extended would be the 36-Broadway and the 147-Outer Drive.

The 24-Wentworth could be rerouted to the Wells-Wentworth connector, as could the 37-Sedgwick. It could make sense to bring the 37 down to McCormick Place also.

On State, there is the 29-State and the 62-Archer. Maybe the walk could be improved or made more obvious in some way.

The 44-Wallace-Racine could be extended via Archer, Wentworth, 16th, State, and Roosevelt to provide a Bridgeport and Englewood connection.

The last change (and maybe one that would have an impact on existing riders) would be rerouting the 18-16th/18th across the river along 18th, then along State St to the Roosevelt station. This would provide a connection between the site area (and Chinatown kind of) and Pilsen and North Lawndale.

sentinel Dec 20, 2018 4:23 PM

stay on topic

go go white sox Dec 21, 2018 8:28 PM

Oh boy that station looks stunning if you ask me, not sure why some of the opposition as described in the article, considering it's only a temporary closing of cotton tail park.

https://chicago.curbed.com/2018/12/2...elated-midwest

mark0 Dec 21, 2018 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by go go white sox (Post 8416586)
Oh boy that station looks stunning if you ask me, not sure why some of the opposition as described in the article, considering it's only a temporary closing of cotton tail park.

https://chicago.curbed.com/2018/12/2...elated-midwest

Serious question: if they are spending $300 million is there going to be an entry to the subway from the west side of Clark in the actual 78? It seems like a fail to spend billions of dollars on a development and $300 million for a station that doesnt drop you at the development but makes you navigate a busy thoroughfare instead. Pedestrian experience should be priority.

BonoboZill4 Dec 22, 2018 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark0 (Post 8416774)
Serious question: if they are spending $300 million is there going to be an entry to the subway from the west side of Clark in the actual 78? It seems like a fail to spend billions of dollars on a development and $300 million for a station that doesnt drop you at the development but makes you navigate a busy thoroughfare instead. Pedestrian experience should be priority.

It's right at the development's doorstep. Where is the failure here?

go go white sox Dec 22, 2018 2:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark0 (Post 8416774)
Serious question: if they are spending $300 million is there going to be an entry to the subway from the west side of Clark in the actual 78? It seems like a fail to spend billions of dollars on a development and $300 million for a station that doesnt drop you at the development but makes you navigate a busy thoroughfare instead. Pedestrian experience should be priority.

It's on the southeast corner of Clark and 15th it's right one site practically. Good decision on location of the station but man 300mil? That's alot mula

Mr Downtown Dec 22, 2018 2:26 AM

The problem is that apparently there's serious infrastructure stacked up under Clark: a big water main, an MWRD collector, and then the old freight tunnel full of ComEd and/or fiber optics. Related would have preferred to put the station on their side of Clark, but it just looked too difficult. After the reaction they got at the Dearborn Park II meeting last week, they've vowed to "take another look."

Kumdogmillionaire Dec 27, 2018 5:16 AM

The infrastructure work on this project(including the riverwalk) will be far more impressive and interesting to watch than any of the buildings that will go up here, that's a guarantee

emathias Dec 27, 2018 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonoboZill4 (Post 8416818)
It's right at the development's doorstep. Where is the failure here?

If 95% of the people using the station have to cross the street to get where they're going, it becomes a safety concern. It's also an incovenience. If waiting for the light and crossing the street (and getting from the station exit to the crosswalk) takes even just 30 seconds, it can turn into hours of wasted time per year for residents or workers. Is it the worst thing in the world? No. Almost any entrance is better than no station. But, if you're building the station primarily to serve a particular development, integrating it to the development has real value. Ideally, I prefer a setup where there are entrances on both sides of the street - ultimately that's the best case scenario, but if you can only do one or the other, then it should be on the side of the street where most transit riders are destined.

BonoboZill4 Dec 27, 2018 1:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emathias (Post 8419531)
If 95% of the people using the station have to cross the street to get where they're going, it becomes a safety concern. It's also an incovenience. If waiting for the light and crossing the street (and getting from the station exit to the crosswalk) takes even just 30 seconds, it can turn into hours of wasted time per year for residents or workers. Is it the worst thing in the world? No. Almost any entrance is better than no station. But, if you're building the station primarily to serve a particular development, integrating it to the development has real value. Ideally, I prefer a setup where there are entrances on both sides of the street - ultimately that's the best case scenario, but if you can only do one or the other, then it should be on the side of the street where most transit riders are destined.

If walking across a street is a safety concern, then I risk my life dozens of times ever day. I didn't realize how brave I was. :o

Suburban Shadow Dec 27, 2018 2:15 PM

The plans for the 78 show a stoplight at 15th and Clark so I don't think crossing the street will be a problem.

When is Wells/Wentworth connector supposed to start?
Possibly summer 2019?


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