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-   -   PHILADELPHIA | Hyatt Centric | 179 FT | 13 FLOORS (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum//showthread.php?t=218025)

jsbrook Nov 6, 2019 6:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartphilly (Post 8739441)
^
The Harper in Rittenhouse is probably their best high rise project to date. But, let's just say they are not on the same level as SOM, Foster and Partners, Snohetta or other top tier architects, at least not in any projects completed to date. And their projects aren't featured in Architectural Digest. But, glad to see they are getting work in the Philly area. I'm sure money has to do with some of the design, but hope to see them do more work in Philly and up their design game.

Why would you want to see bad architects do more work in Philly? I'd just as soon never see them or Cecil Baker or Eric Leighton design another building here again. Some architects manage to create something interesting and decent with modest budgets and standard cost efficient materials. Gluck+ and their design with the Bridge is a good example of that. https://www.architectmagazine.com/pr...ery/bridge_3_o Those are the types of architects I want to see doing more work here.

iheartphilly Nov 6, 2019 2:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsbrook (Post 8740356)
Why would you want to see bad architects do more work in Philly? I'd just as soon never see them or Cecil Baker or Eric Leighton design another building here again. Some architects manage to create something interesting and decent with modest budgets and standard cost efficient materials. Gluck+ and their design with the Bridge is a good example of that. https://www.architectmagazine.com/pr...ery/bridge_3_o Those are the types of architects I want to see doing more work here.

I certainly don't want to see bad architecture in Philly for sure. Hyatt Centric has a unique shape to it and isn't just a vertical rectangle. In giving it more thought and another look of the design, I think the design is fine. Like others, I now think the issue was with the downgrade of materials or not following what we saw from the original renders in terms of material currently be installed as compared to the renders.

Eric Leighton did 500 Walnut as part of the Cecil team and giving the lot and spatial surrounding, I think it turned out very good. One Riverside from Cecil is good too. Not great, but good.

I think philosophically we can all easily say lets get Philly the best design and best material that the budget can afford or the developer is willing to spend. But, at the end of the day, I think all projects look for a ROI and are constrained by budget that determined the designs and outcomes of how the projects will look when factoring labor costs and the amount of rent or selling cost each unit can fetch. But, I'm no insider so I can't claim to know the decision making and selection process of how all this works. For example, if the developer goes through a bidding process and ask architects for design proposals or is favored to do business with one selected architect for its project and makes the final decision. Some developers may just have bad taste in selecting design/materials, or their taste grossly differs from ours. Like the saying goes, just because you have money doesn't mean you have taste. Who knows?

jsbrook Nov 7, 2019 4:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartphilly (Post 8740526)
I certainly don't want to see bad architecture in Philly for sure. Hyatt Centric has a unique shape to it and isn't just a vertical rectangle. In giving it more thought and another look of the design, I think the design is fine. Like others, I now think the issue was with the downgrade of materials or not following what we saw from the original renders in terms of material currently be installed as compared to the renders.

Eric Leighton did 500 Walnut as part of the Cecil team and giving the lot and spatial surrounding, I think it turned out very good. One Riverside from Cecil is good too. Not great, but good.

I think philosophically we can all easily say lets get Philly the best design and best material that the budget can afford or the developer is willing to spend. But, at the end of the day, I think all projects look for a ROI and are constrained by budget that determined the designs and outcomes of how the projects will look when factoring labor costs and the amount of rent or selling cost each unit can fetch. But, I'm no insider so I can't claim to know the decision making and selection process of how all this works. For example, if the developer goes through a bidding process and ask architects for design proposals or is favored to do business with one selected architect for its project and makes the final decision. Some developers may just have bad taste in selecting design/materials, or their taste grossly differs from ours. Like the saying goes, just because you have money doesn't mean you have taste. Who knows?

They aren't good architects. Their exteriors are consistently below average. DAS is multiple levels below SOM and that ilk. There are many unknowns and lesser knowns in levels above them before we get to a SOM. Cecil and Eric are extremely average with average buildings and can only create a decent building with very high budgets. Good architects can create something decent with mediocre materials and modest budgets. Also, with DAS, they inevitably use the ugliest materials and cladding. Unclear to me how much of that is developer-driven or whether they just lack any good sense and creativity once the budget is fixed. My main point was that their renders, more than any other company, are a fiction. I am just going to ignore them completely going forward and have no expectations as to what their buildings will actually look like until construction is well underway.

iheartphilly Nov 7, 2019 4:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsbrook (Post 8741874)
They aren't good architects. Their exteriors are consistently below average. DAS is multiple levels below SOM and that ilk. There are many unknowns and lesser knowns in levels above them before we get to a SOM. Cecil and Eric are extremely average with average buildings and can only create a decent building with very high budgets. Good architects can create something decent with mediocre materials and modest budgets. Also, with DAS, they inevitably use the ugliest materials and cladding. Unclear to me how much of that is developer-driven or whether they just lack any good sense and creativity once the budget is fixed. My main point was that their renders, more than any other company, are a fiction. I am just going to ignore them completely going forward and have no expectations as to what their buildings will actually look like until construction is well underway.

:tup:

Isn't it amazing that they manage to get work to stay in business? I guess we have to manage expectations on some of these architects then.

PHL10 Nov 18, 2019 1:41 PM

Saturday:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...461687ee_b.jpg
Although the south face is regrettable, the rest of the building works well for me. I like the undulating brick spine running up the 17th Street side ( can be seen in the photo).

Knight Hospitaller Nov 18, 2019 3:51 PM

^If I had a dollar for every building that was complete on three sides.... It's like they save one side for apprentices to design. We've come a long way since cathedral architects' commitment to beauty saw them put effort into design elements that only God could see.

Londonee Nov 18, 2019 4:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHL10 (Post 8751559)
Saturday:
Although the south face is regrettable, the rest of the building works well for me. I like the undulating brick spine running up the 17th Street side ( can be seen in the photo).

Yeah it's not bad. The big story is the activation this thing will have of Chancellor Street - a sleeping parking garage Alley street will be transformed into a pretty lively area with a 4-star hotel entrance, restaurant, Vetri, etc.

Jawnadelphia Dec 28, 2019 1:22 PM

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...e78be572_b.jpg

jsbrook Dec 28, 2019 7:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jawnadelphia (Post 8785984)

This looks bad, though not as bad as the Locust-facing side. This building reminds me of Canadian public housing. See the first two and fourth picture in this article: https://www.vox.com/2017/6/27/157164...-rich-toderian

Knight Hospitaller Dec 29, 2019 3:49 AM

^If that were Canadian public housing, the banner would say "Chad can wait." ;)

jsbrook Dec 29, 2019 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller (Post 8786317)
^If that were Canadian public housing, the banner would say "Chad can wait." ;)

:haha:

Jawnadelphia Dec 30, 2019 4:31 PM

https://instagram.fewr1-5.fna.fbcdn....0b&oe=5EA827B3
https://www.instagram.com/p/B6oEofPjzo4/

Yurkek Jan 4, 2020 6:13 PM

Better looking side
https://i.imgur.com/HakFyYK.jpg?1
https://i.imgur.com/4LoRlQv.jpg?1
https://i.imgur.com/3sIPXWw.jpg?1

Not a fan of this, especially in contrast with the church
https://i.imgur.com/2IcYAzC.jpg?1

hammersklavier Jan 4, 2020 8:59 PM

Why is the north side the better looking side? That's hidden behind a bunch of Walnut Street highrises while the south side faces St. Mark's Church and will be visible for all to see in perpetuity along Locust. Questionable architect decisions much?

Yurkek Jan 4, 2020 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammersklavier (Post 8790556)
Why is the north side the better looking side? That's hidden behind a bunch of Walnut Street highrises while the south side faces St. Mark's Church and will be visible for all to see in perpetuity along Locust. Questionable architect decisions much?

Probably the only thing that mattered was the entrance.

SEFTA Jan 4, 2020 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yurkek (Post 8790463)

Not a fan of this, especially in contrast with the church
https://i.imgur.com/2IcYAzC.jpg?1

Yeah not great. I'll say this, it's better than a blank wall but overall I like the building

Jawnadelphia Jan 5, 2020 12:21 AM

Woof, barf city. The south side is offensive, so cheap, ugly, just blah. Also, I can’t imagine what those panels will look like with some weathering/aging. F- of a building.

iheartphilly Jan 5, 2020 2:37 AM

^^^
Those blue panels remind me of the blue tape on the accents of the CTC, and these are just as annoying and ugly as the blue tape. Horrible color scheme for this bldg.

Brick facade would of been best!

jsbrook Jan 5, 2020 4:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartphilly (Post 8790719)
^^^
Those blue panels remind me of the blue tape on the accents of the CTC, and these are just as annoying and ugly as the blue tape. Horrible color scheme for this bldg.

Brick facade would of been best!

Yeah, they should not have been so damn cheap and should have done the whole thing as grey/blue brick and glass. This is actually the worst building of its size to rise in Rittenhouse in recent memory

3rd&Brown Jan 7, 2020 3:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartphilly (Post 8740526)
I certainly don't want to see bad architecture in Philly for sure. Hyatt Centric has a unique shape to it and isn't just a vertical rectangle. In giving it more thought and another look of the design, I think the design is fine. Like others, I now think the issue was with the downgrade of materials or not following what we saw from the original renders in terms of material currently be installed as compared to the renders.

Eric Leighton did 500 Walnut as part of the Cecil team and giving the lot and spatial surrounding, I think it turned out very good. One Riverside from Cecil is good too. Not great, but good.

I think philosophically we can all easily say lets get Philly the best design and best material that the budget can afford or the developer is willing to spend. But, at the end of the day, I think all projects look for a ROI and are constrained by budget that determined the designs and outcomes of how the projects will look when factoring labor costs and the amount of rent or selling cost each unit can fetch. But, I'm no insider so I can't claim to know the decision making and selection process of how all this works. For example, if the developer goes through a bidding process and ask architects for design proposals or is favored to do business with one selected architect for its project and makes the final decision. Some developers may just have bad taste in selecting design/materials, or their taste grossly differs from ours. Like the saying goes, just because you have money doesn't mean you have taste. Who knows?

With the prices people paid at 500 Walnut, outcome should have been better than "very good".

Also, I'd argue it's incredibly mediocre. It looks like a suburban office park building.

Time for Cecil and friends to to hang up their hats. There used to be something tasteful and timeless about his style. Now it's just geometric panels...and in dated configurations from day one.

The only (Philly based) architects doing interesting and/or high quality work in Philly at this point that I can think of are ISA, Canno, and QB3. For a while, I would have had Kiernan Timberlake on that list, but their style is stuck in a time warp and seems to have stopped evolving.

I'd rather work go to outside firms until this folks up their game or prove me wrong.


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