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Steve Hoffman Jan 4, 2012 4:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 5536511)
That's quite a haunting recollection Steve.
With your fine description I was able to imagine this unsettling scene. You gave me chills.

Heh, my pleasure. Hard to forget. I remember telling that story to a guy on my own website and he did some digging and told me that the theater next to the Sports Arena was the Fox. It was nice to put a name to that anonymous exposed structure after all this time. Then I saw the pics here and felt I had to comment.

I'm totally dreaming about LA Film Noir after reading this thread constantly every day for hours at a time. Can't believe I got through all 289 pages here. My head is still spinning.

My grandfather worked in the Arcade building on Spring Street (he was a barber) and I loved seeing the few shots of the building. I have memories of the one and only time my parents took me downtown to see him (must have been in the very early 1960s). I remember that it was very crowded on the streets around there, people crossing the streets in like a triangle, not just across one street but sort of at an angle. All the men were in suits and wore hats which I thought was really odd since I knew no one who wore one. It looked old and dingy to me even then but I never forgot it. Seeing some of these pics here makes LA of the past just seem like a bewildering place, with ruined buildings torn down due to neglect and classic mint beautiful buildings torn down just because they were 20 years or so old.

Tragic but I also remember at the time (as a kid) not caring too much about it, thinking (like all good LA people) that new was better. Silly, but true.

At any rate this thread is probably the best I've ever read on the Internet and I've learned more about my home town than I ever thought possible.

So, thank you all!

ethereal_reality Jan 4, 2012 4:45 AM

I'm really glad you found the thread Steve. It makes it all seem worth while.

minkykat Jan 4, 2012 4:53 AM

So glad I came across this thread!
 
I found this place while stumbling around the net trying to find a picture of the house at 2039 S. Hobart, where Mary Miles Minter lived at the time of the WSD murder.

As a fan of old LA, this place is like Aladdin's cave for me and a wonderful sense of being able to go back in time! I used to live in Korea Town at the Dubary when I first moved to town in the late '90's. For the first couple of weeks, I would take my books on LA and go around with it open in the front seat next to me just to see how many of the old buildings where still standing. Some of my trips took me into some very seedy areas indeed.

This is a much safer way to travel, I'll tell you what!

ps
anyone with a photo of the Hobart House?

minkykat Jan 4, 2012 4:55 AM

By the way,
 
Gaylord Wilshire was my second choice for an apartment at the time. However, with no dedicated parking, I went with Dubary. Pity; the Gaylord did come with its own bar!!

ethereal_reality Jan 4, 2012 6:07 AM

Welcome to the thread minkykat!

You mentioned that the Gaylord Apartments came with a bar....do you mean the bar in the lobby, or a personal bar in the unit?
(something like Mike Hammer's apartment in 'Kiss Me Deadly')

______

I haven't been able to find a photo of Mary Miles Minter's house at 2039 S. Hobart. Hopefully someone on the thread has a photograph.

ethereal_reality Jan 4, 2012 6:21 AM

Here is another Arnold Hylen photograph from ebay. I've tried so hard to read the painted advertisements on the building.

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/7358/ftmoorehill.jpg


below: This is the description on the reverse of the photo.

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/8...oorehill2a.jpg
____



Here is another Hylen photo from ebay without a description.

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/6...rnoldhylen.jpg

sopas ej Jan 4, 2012 6:54 AM

Over the Christmas and New Year's Day weekends, I took pictures of some of LA's LA River bridges (mainly the ones near downtown). Over the years I've driven over them and have appreciated them from a driver's point of view, but this time, taking my time walking over them, looking at the details, I feel I've come to know them even better; each one definitely has its own personality. They're now my current obsession. If anyone wants to take a gander at my pics of the bridges, I created a thread here.

Here's a mix of old and new photos.

9th Street Bridge (now Olympic Blvd. Bridge) looking west, 1930. This bridge was built in 1925.
http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics48/00073833.jpg
LAPL

Olympic Blvd. Bridge looking west, January 1, 2012.
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...63767339_n.jpg
Photo by me

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...73376862_n.jpg
Photo by me

It replaced this metal truss bridge, which I assume was built in the late 19th or very early 20th Century. At the turn of the 20th Century, many bridges that crossed the LA River were of this type. I guess they served their purpose during the horse-and-buggy days, but by the 1920s, they were considered outdated, and created traffic bottlenecks.
http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics35/00067460.jpg
LAPL

:previous:
Notice that the bridge was at grade, which meant that traffic crossing the bridge also had to deal with railroad traffic that ran along both sides of the LA River/both ends of the bridge. A number of these older truss bridges were at grade. The newer bridges were built with approaches so that traffic could clear the railroad tracks.


Eastern end of 6th Street Bridge, looking west, January 1, 2012.
http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...13548068_n.jpg
Photo by me

Eastern end of 6th Street Bridge, looking west, 1933. This photo was taken before the bridge was opened to traffic. Notice the street lamps; they have since been replaced with utilitarian and ugly street lamps; most recently, LED street lamps were installed.
http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/8...reetbridge.jpg
USC Archive

Walking this bridge, I can see the state of disrepair that it's in. I was first very disappointed when I found out that the bridge is going to be knocked down, but after walking it, I'm not so disappointed. A lot of its original details have been removed over the decades. Yes, they could restore/recreate the details and retrofit the bridge, but being that the concrete is deteriorating, the bridge still would only last a few more decades. I think knocking it down presents the opportunity to create something new and iconic, and could complement the other bridges. Wow, did I actually just say that? :P

Here's a modern view of the south side of the 6th Street Bridge:
http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...00785637_n.jpg
Photo by me

Compare it with this view from the 1930s:
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/5268/chs42059.jpg
USC Archive

When I first looked at this photo, I was struck by the details of the bridge; not only the lamps, but the pylons at the center. Those are now gone. When I saw those pylons in the photo, the pylons that still exist at the eastern end of the bridge then made sense to me; before, I thought they were kind of odd, but now I know that walking or driving across the bridge, the center ones would kind of echo the ones on the end; it makes me wonder if the western end of the bridge also had decorative pylons. I couldn't find an old picture of the western end (or maybe I haven't looked hard enough).

And, look at the LA River in its natural state. It was paved over after a great flood in 1938 that inundated the Los Angeles area. I don't know why they had to pave it over; so that the river wouldn't overflow its banks, I think they should've just dug a deeper channel and left it unpaved. Then over time, vegetation would have grown again and wildlife habitats would have come back. Hmm, but if the LA River was never paved over, there would be no drag race scene in "Grease." :P

Here's another shot of the 6th Street Bridge in 1933, right before it was opened to traffic; behind it is the 4th Street Bridge, and in the distance behind that, is the 1st Street Bridge.
http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/5...bridge1933.jpg
USC Archive

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/9872/chs35366.jpg
USC Archive

The 6th Street Bridge has great views of the downtown LA skyline.
http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...34712833_n.jpg
Photo by me

Look how ratty it's become.
http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...50846833_n.jpg
Photo by me

No center pylons.
http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...78401895_n.jpg
Photo by me

Look at all the nice embellishments that were removed.
http://img864.imageshack.us/img864/4867/chs35369.jpg
USC Archive

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/1528/chs35370.jpg
USC Archive

From 1937. This is noirish LA, after all. So... a suicide from the 6th Street Bridge. Ernest Besselman decided to end his life.
http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/998...tbrivia001.jpg
USC Archive

Here's an aerial view taken in 1924, over the Broadway Bridge and North Spring Street Bridge. Look at the LA River, with vegetation growing in it.
http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics17/00028254.jpg
LAPL

Broadway Bridge, 1924. This bridge opened in 1911.
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/1...bridge1924.jpg
USC Archive

Here's a shot from 1922. Notice the bridge on the right; that's the old North Spring Street Bridge, which was later replaced with a concrete bridge that opened in 1928.
http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/3...eanother19.jpg
USC Archive

This picture was taken in November, 1937. Notice the street lamps; the originals were removed, and these were installed, I guess so that the lamp posts could also hold the trolley wires, as opposed to the poles that were planted in the sidewalks in the older photos. But notice that they got rid of the columns at the ends of the bridge.
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/5...enovember1.jpg
USC Archive

December 26, 2011. The bridge was seismically strengthened and its historical details recreated in 2000.
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...89364800_n.jpg
Photo by me

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...81155889_n.jpg
Photo by me

Broadway Bridge, 1978. I wish this were a larger photo, because then you could see that by this time, all of the old historical details of the bridge had been stripped away. The columns were gone, the balustrade replaced with a very 1950s-looking freeway-type railing, and the street lamps were modern light standards.
http://jpg2.lapl.org/spnb1/00017220.jpg
LAPL

Broadway Bridge, January 2, 2012.
http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...11245410_n.jpg
Photo by me

Broadway Bridge in foreground, North Spring Street Bridge behind, December 26, 2011.
http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...91129764_n.jpg
Photo by me

Here's a view, circa 1900.
http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/7...bridge1900.jpg
USC Archive

This area is the main entrance to Elysian Park. Today you get good views of downtown Los Angeles from the park. I drove through the park the day I took these photos. Nice views from the park, though you see lots of guys sitting in their parked cars here and there. It kind of creeped me out a little; I was thinking they were there to buy or sell drugs, or to cruise other guys.

December 26, 2011.
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/4452/p1200329.jpg
Photo by me

3940dxer Jan 4, 2012 4:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Hoffman (Post 5536528)
Heh, my pleasure. Hard to forget. I remember telling that story to a guy on my own website and he did some digging and told me that the theater next to the Sports Arena was the Fox. It was nice to put a name to that anonymous exposed structure after all this time. Then I saw the pics here and felt I had to comment.

I'm totally dreaming about LA Film Noir after reading this thread constantly every day for hours at a time. Can't believe I got through all 289 pages here. My head is still spinning.

My grandfather worked in the Arcade building on Spring Street (he was a barber) and I loved seeing the few shots of the building. I have memories of the one and only time my parents took me downtown to see him (must have been in the very early 1960s). I remember that it was very crowded on the streets around there, people crossing the streets in like a triangle, not just across one street but sort of at an angle. All the men were in suits and wore hats which I thought was really odd since I knew no one who wore one. It looked old and dingy to me even then but I never forgot it. Seeing some of these pics here makes LA of the past just seem like a bewildering place, with ruined buildings torn down due to neglect and classic mint beautiful buildings torn down just because they were 20 years or so old.

Tragic but I also remember at the time (as a kid) not caring too much about it, thinking (like all good LA people) that new was better. Silly, but true.

At any rate this thread is probably the best I've ever read on the Internet and I've learned more about my home town than I ever thought possible.

So, thank you all!

Steve, it's great to see you here, and congratulations on reading the whole thread! It was you that first brought me here and like you, my head is still spinning. I've learned 100 times more about L.A. history than I had in 35 years of living here, and the history and photos here have inspired dozens of fantastic hikes and field trips. Right now I'm planning a hike to the peak of Mt. Lowe with my brother and will take plenty of "Now" photos.

I'm afraid that my obsession with this thread had led to diminished participation in your own outstanding forum. :worship: I hope you understand.

I have lots more little photo safaris planned, if you'd like to join me on one sometime. It's been a true revelation, learning how much great L.A. history and architecture is here to see and interact with, in many cases just minutes from my door.

Again, welcome! Great to see your name here!

David K.

GaylordWilshire Jan 4, 2012 4:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopas ej (Post 5535432)

amazing set of photographs, sopas.

GaylordWilshire Jan 4, 2012 4:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3940dxer (Post 5536934)
I have lots more little photo safaris planned
David K.


Don't forget to try to get into the marble subway connecting the Rosslyns....!

3940dxer Jan 4, 2012 4:46 PM

sopas_ej, fantastic group of L.A. bridge photos! Thanks for posting!

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire (Post 5536950)
Don't forget to try to get into the marble subway connecting the Rosslyns....!

Don't worry GW, I have not forgotten that, and look forward to dining with you if I succeed!

Steve Hoffman Jan 4, 2012 5:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3940dxer (Post 5536934)
Steve, it's great to see you here, and congratulations on reading the whole thread! It was you that first brought me here and like you, my head is still spinning. I've learned 100 times more about L.A. history than I had in 35 years of living here, and the history and photos here have inspired dozens of fantastic hikes and field trips. Right now I'm planning a hike to the peak of Mt. Lowe with my brother and will take plenty of "Now" photos.

I'm afraid that my obsession with this thread had led to diminished participation in your own outstanding forum. :worship: I hope you understand.

I have lots more little photo safaris planned, if you'd like to join me on one sometime. It's been a true revelation, learning how much great L.A. history and architecture is here to see and interact with, in many cases just minutes from my door.

Again, welcome! Great to see your name here!

David K.

Hi David,

Yes, this thread is addicting, isn't it? I saw you earlier on here and that photo of the Market that turned into our favorite LA recording studio was really a blow-mind. I've lived here all my life and I've been to a lot of historic places here but it never ceases to amaze me what we've lost, in the name of "modernization".

When I was a kid here I remember going to places like the old Philharmonic Auditorium and looking on them not with nostalgic wonder (nothing like that existed yet in the early 1960's) but with sort of a contempt, believe it or not. Hard to believe now but the mind set back then was "old was bad, new is good". When something stops being new, tear the sucker down and build something else. Tragic mind set but everyone had it back then. After all, Art Deco reminded the older people of the terrible depression. It wasn't fun to look at the Deco and older buildings, it was sad and spooky. I think most people were glad when they were torn down and it couldn't happen fast enough. Imagine that? The call to those in power here at the time was always "Modernize Our City!"

Of course, that started to change in the 1970's when "nostalgia" became popular and it was OK for people to look back on a different time. Before that, forget it. David, it was like the old recording engineers who couldn't get rid of vacuum tube recording gear fast enough. Didn't matter that the new solid state gear sounded lackluster... The old had to go. Sigh. I'm glad things are different now but I can't help getting the feeling that the next generation might not see it that way and start to destroy the "old stuff" again. Let's hope not..

At any rate, David, glad you are enjoying this thread as much as I am!

minkykat Jan 4, 2012 9:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 5536614)
Welcome to the thread minkykat!

You mentioned that the Gaylord Apartments came with a bar....do you mean the bar in the lobby, or a personal bar in the unit?
(something like Mike Hammer's apartment in 'Kiss Me Deadly')

______

I haven't been able to find a photo of Mary Miles Minter's house at 2039 S. Hobart. Hopefully someone on the thread has a photograph.

In the lobby! The HMS something or other. They still allowed smoking in there for a time in 1998 when the smoking police were cracking down on everyone.

I understand that the area is experiencing something of an upswing now. In my time, 1997-1999, it was kinda iffy. The meat wagon was a regular blocker of our driveway as they came to collect yet another stiff from the building next door!

Enjoying all the photos here no end!

ethereal_reality Jan 4, 2012 11:08 PM

:previous: I hear you.
When I lived in an old apartment building on Cochran Avenue (just off Wilshire) they hauled away dead tenants on a weekly basis.
___

Sensational post on the bridges of L.A. sopas_ej! It was really great.
___

GaylordWilshire Jan 4, 2012 11:40 PM

Meat wagons
 
http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics47/00073085.jpgLAPL
1958


http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics32/00065893.jpgLAPL
1936: The charming Hollywood Receiving Hospital 1350 N. Wilcox has been replaced with a boring brick box. Question:
What exactly is meant by "receiving" hospital? I always heard about them in movies set in L.A....never heard the term
growing up in New Orleans. Presumably, these hospitals, which seem to have been attached to police stations, offered
limited care, receiving a person (or body), who (or which) was then transferred to a bigger facility...? Btw, the wagon
in the picture is based on a mid-'30s Auburn--not a cheap car. But fast.

jg6544 Jan 4, 2012 11:54 PM

Looks like the air quality is a lot better nowadays.

GaylordWilshire Jan 5, 2012 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 5536627)
Here is another Arnold Hylen photograph from ebay. I've tried so hard to read the painted advertisements on the building.

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/7358/ftmoorehill.jpg

The Armagh Apartments were at 314 California Street, which I believe is under the freeway....

rick m Jan 5, 2012 1:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 5536627)
Here is another Arnold Hylen photograph from ebay. I've tried so hard to read the painted advertisements on the building.

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/7358/ftmoorehill.jpg


below: This is the description on the reverse of the photo.

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/8...oorehill2a.jpg
____

This painted ad for the Armagh was on backside of the Alhambra Hotel- Armagh was 2 little streets west sitting between Stockton and Pavilion Place(address 500 to 514- The old original(relocated) Los Angeles High School faced it from opposite side of that block of California-- Armagh was a turretted gothic fantasy-

Here is another Hylen photo from ebay without a description.
Say E.R.-- That new-to-me Hylen image is a rear shot of the Armagh Apts- was actually closer to No.Grand - on California directly across frm Oil Queen Emma Summer's Queen Apts (and aka Princess Apts) Armagh is a place name frm Ireland-- Rick M
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/6...rnoldhylen.jpg

Oops i placed my comment a lilttle high again!

rick m Jan 5, 2012 1:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by citywatch (Post 5533742)
for those who can't identify the actress you mention, she's best known for playing this part in a rather famous movie....

http://image1.findagrave.com/photos2...2235799906.jpg
findagrave.com




as we enter a new yr, & look at all the yrs gone by, it's easy to feel nostalgic for ppl & places of the past. but as much as I enjoy looking at pics of LA from a long time ago, I'm also reminded how flawed that past really was.

there was a time when where you live now, NYC, looked at anything west of the hudson as the hinterlands....& LA, to those living east of the mississippi or certain other cities closer to the west coast, inc SF, was written off as remote & a cultural outpost. from that standpoint, I lose nostalgia for the past.

I generally post only to the SSP thread on new devlpt in DTLA, but I like looking at this thread to help remind me that LA of a long time ago, while it had some good things, also was disappointing in various ways & could really test the patience of ppl interested in living in a top flight city.

all in all, in spite of bad things about today----including too much squalor, homeless ppl, tagging, & crime----I'd rather live now, or soon to be 2012, than in the 1900s, 1930s, 40s, 50s.... OTOH, ppl in NYC can feel more fondness for their past, since the city they call home was considered a capital & very important or "exciting" even over 50, 70, 100 yrs ago.

You're aware that Billie Burke was one of the feminine lesbian character actresses- like Spring Byington (longtime partner of Marjorie Main-these 2 never spoken to by their neighbor George Cukor! He must've looked down on this set of character career women )---Billie's affair with Dorothy Arzner coverd in Wm.Mann's BEHIND The Screen---

rick m Jan 5, 2012 1:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 5534415)
Four photogravure prints found on ebay.


http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/9...etailebay2.jpg




below: I believe this is the P. Max Kuehnrich residence at 19 Chester Place.

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/616...ceebay2012.jpg



http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/6...etebay2012.jpg





below: The Plaza Church with Los Angeles High School's clock tower in the distance.

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/6...03ebay2012.jpg



http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/8...highschool.jpg
ebay

You are correct in naming the Max Keunich mansion on Chester Place- In the W.Adams image I can identify the Capen home (at #818 address) This shows the porch before its modification- I got the i.d. for USC' unidentified Whittington Studio image of this place about a year ago-which they adopted-as it comes up in LAPL's database by other photographers- The Figueroa house is a toughie -doesn't match my set of large homes I collected--


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