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-   -   CHICAGO: ORD & MDW discussion (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=87889)

nergie Oct 18, 2006 2:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kalmia
What if the courts ruled in favor of the cemetery? Would you feel that Chicago should pay the legal costs of the opponents?

$630,000 for the cemetery? That is ridiculously little, and so is the $10 for the Bensenville city property. Some of you just want the airport expansion to be done no matter who is harmed or who's property is condemned.

The whole thing is political. Chicago has a big bully mayor, and Chicago and the surrounding areas have influential congressmen and statehouse members. Expansion of another airport would have had far less resistance and cost far less in land aquisition. Gary is close by with a lot of vacant surrounding land. Resistance to expansion of Gary is little. Travel to the Gary airport from the Loop takes less time than travel to O'Hare. But it is not in Illinois, so it isn't considered much.

There is an expansion project at the Gary airport, but it isn't increasing the size much.

So lets build a massive airport no airline said they would serve, cost taxpayer money and destroy thousands of acres of farmland. I agree a third airport option has to be developed in Chicago. But O'Hare also needs to be modernized for several reasons. First the infrastructure is in place as is the airline service and route network. The second thing is if a new airport is built it will take time for airlines to commit to service. ORD is a boon for United and American you think they are going to support a competing airport. Not unless they can retain the duopoly they have hat ORD. Same goes for Southwest at Midway. I live in the path of ORD expansion, I got out because I knew it was coming.

Why don't people get it, the Airport was there it was going to grow. Also, the NW suburbs of Chicago really only developed after ORD was developed. Motorola, my company etc are in the NW suburbs because of convenience of ORD.

The cemetary issue, should not be an issue. As I said cemetaries have been moved and cut in half for expressways and railways in the name of federal commerce. It is not if Chicago is going to dig up the remains and incinerate them. The disinterment will be done with religious figures and will pay to reinter the remains only a few blocks away.

the urban politician Oct 18, 2006 4:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nergie
So lets build a massive airport no airline said they would serve, cost taxpayer money and destroy thousands of acres of farmland. I agree a third airport option has to be developed in Chicago. But O'Hare also needs to be modernized for several reasons. First the infrastructure is in place as is the airline service and route network. The second thing is if a new airport is built it will take time for airlines to commit to service. ORD is a boon for United and American you think they are going to support a competing airport. Not unless they can retain the duopoly they have hat ORD. Same goes for Southwest at Midway. I live in the path of ORD expansion, I got out because I knew it was coming.

Why don't people get it, the Airport was there it was going to grow. Also, the NW suburbs of Chicago really only developed after ORD was developed. Motorola, my company etc are in the NW suburbs because of convenience of ORD.

The cemetary issue, should not be an issue. As I said cemetaries have been moved and cut in half for expressways and railways in the name of federal commerce. It is not if Chicago is going to dig up the remains and incinerate them. The disinterment will be done with religious figures and will pay to reinter the remains only a few blocks away.

^ I support ORD expansion, but I also believe Chicago should move towards establishing a third airport to alleviate future congestion. Gary should be that third airport. I totally agree that Peotone is a retarded idea, but Gary has the backing not only of Daley but of the Indiana State Govt, and is undergoing millions of dollars infrastructure improvements as we speak.

And even while Hooters Air ( :haha: ) stopped serving Gary, another airline (I'm blanking on who right now) just recently announced it will begin service to Gary's airport.

Finally, the lopsided-ness of the Chicago area (north and west rich, south and southeast poor) is getting old and stupid. It's time an economic engine gets built for the south side. Peotone is not the answer, but some day Gary may be.

Marcu Oct 18, 2006 5:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego
Yes, legal fees should be (and are) fare game to be awarded in a civil judgement!

That's usually if parties contracted into it. Otherwise, it's very rare.

VivaLFuego Oct 18, 2006 9:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcu
That's usually if parties contracted into it. Otherwise, it's very rare.

1. There is no contract between the city and the homeowners.

2. If I sue for damages, I damn well can include legal fees. . .

VivaLFuego Oct 18, 2006 9:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kalmia
What if the courts ruled in favor of the cemetery? Would you feel that Chicago should pay the legal costs of the opponents?

Yes. . .

Marcu Oct 18, 2006 9:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego
1. There is no contract between the city and the homeowners.

2. If I sue for damages, I damn well can include legal fees. . .

Exactly. there is no contract.

You can include anything you want under liberal pleading rules.

Under the American system everyone usually pays their own legal fees.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Rule

The homeowners had every right to fight the expansion and state their position in court, even if you don't believe they were on the right side.

nergie Oct 19, 2006 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcu
Exactly. there is no contract.

You can include anything you want under liberal pleading rules.

Under the American system everyone usually pays their own legal fees.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Rule

The homeowners had every right to fight the expansion and state their position in court, even if you don't believe they were on the right side.

It is not really the homeowners fighting, it is the suburban governments, and these guys are not doing this out of any altrustic, safe the poor people, motive. They are pissed about the amount of tax income their villages are going to lose. Yeah everyone has a right to fight but maybe if they would have used their heads not their hearts things would have been much better.

Busy Bee Oct 19, 2006 12:35 AM

Gimme Gary!

VivaLFuego Oct 19, 2006 3:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcu
Exactly. there is no contract.

You can include anything you want under liberal pleading rules.

Under the American system everyone usually pays their own legal fees.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Rule

The homeowners had every right to fight the expansion and state their position in court, even if you don't believe they were on the right side.

I'm not saying they don't have a right, it's just obnoxious that they exercise that right at cost to the rest of the region when they could have otherwise received above market value for their property standing in the way of necessary improvements.

Dalreg Oct 19, 2006 4:25 AM

But who said it was necessary?

Steely Dan Oct 19, 2006 5:18 AM

^ it's neccessary for chicago to move forward.

these pissant suburbs should not have the right to stand in the way of mighty chicago. suburbs are stupid and little. chicago is big and important.

if daley II had bigger balls, he'd just send in the CPD '68 convention style and "eliminate" the opposition. that would be fun to see; the mayor of EGV whipped into the bloody pulp at the end of a baton controlled by a foaming at the mouth seargent.

i think more of our regional problems need to be solved with military answers. fuck laws and the courts; it's so much quicker and more decisive when your enemy simply doesn't exist anymore.

bnk Oct 19, 2006 5:31 AM

:previous:

I think you are drunk.

Rail Claimore Oct 19, 2006 1:02 PM

^That's par for the course with Dan.

chi-townJay Oct 19, 2006 1:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan
^ it's neccessary for chicago to move forward.

these pissant suburbs should not have the right to stand in the way of mighty chicago. suburbs are stupid and little. chicago is big and important.

if daley II had bigger balls, he'd just send in the CPD '68 convention style and "eliminate" the opposition. that would be fun to see; the mayor of EGV whipped into the bloody pulp at the end of a baton controlled by a foaming at the mouth seargent.

i think more of our regional problems need to be solved with military answers. fuck laws and the courts; it's so much quicker and more decisive when your enemy simply doesn't exist anymore.


steely Dan did you kill someone today my man lol j/k,but seriously fuck the suburbs Chicago is like god to them,they only exist because of the city with the big shoulders and this is going to happen one way or another period.

brian_b Oct 19, 2006 2:40 PM

Even though the topic title is O'Hare expansion, let's get back to Gary vs. Peotone.

The Gary airport sits on a large expanse of property. There's plenty of room to expand when demand would warrant it. It's close to major highways that lead downtown and it's close to an existing commuter train line that already has a stop for the airport. The local community would absolutely love for it to expand and become busy.

Compare that with Peotone, which would be in the middle of nowhere with no transportation infrastructure leading to Chicago. Not only that, but it's farther away than Gary and nobody living near it wants it.

Gary is simply the logical choice for a 3rd airport. In the meantime, O'Hare expansion needs to kick it into a higher gear!

Rail Claimore Oct 19, 2006 3:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian_b
Even though the topic title is O'Hare expansion, let's get back to Gary vs. Peotone.

The Gary airport sits on a large expanse of property. There's plenty of room to expand when demand would warrant it. It's close to major highways that lead downtown and it's close to an existing commuter train line that already has a stop for the airport. The local community would absolutely love for it to expand and become busy.

Compare that with Peotone, which would be in the middle of nowhere with no transportation infrastructure leading to Chicago. Not only that, but it's farther away than Gary and nobody living near it wants it.

Gary is simply the logical choice for a 3rd airport. In the meantime, O'Hare expansion needs to kick it into a higher gear!

I actually found the final airport layout plan (long term plan) for Peotone, and it looks quite sweet and massive. I just don't want it built out in Peotone... that's the thing.

But seriously, this makes the O'hare expansion plan look small by comparison.

http://masterplan.southsuburbanairpo...ps/1998alp.pdf

I still can't believe I found it. I'd like to see Gary eventually expanded to half that capacity.

VivaLFuego Oct 19, 2006 5:01 PM

^ Seeing as Gary already exists and with the current expansion complete will be able to handle decent size planes and flight volumes, is near an expressway and a rail line, it seems foolish not to set it up for spillover traffic onces O'hare+Midway are maxed out.

Dalreg Oct 19, 2006 5:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan
^ it's neccessary for chicago to move forward.

these pissant suburbs should not have the right to stand in the way of mighty chicago. suburbs are stupid and little. chicago is big and important.

if daley II had bigger balls, he'd just send in the CPD '68 convention style and "eliminate" the opposition. that would be fun to see; the mayor of EGV whipped into the bloody pulp at the end of a baton controlled by a foaming at the mouth seargent.

i think more of our regional problems need to be solved with military answers. fuck laws and the courts; it's so much quicker and more decisive when your enemy simply doesn't exist anymore.

Moderator or not, take a f**king chill pill!

Steely Dan Oct 19, 2006 5:32 PM

^ i think it's quite clear from the tone of that message that i was just goofing around, and yes, i was a wee bit schnockered to boot. whenever i'm sauced my fascinations with totalitarianism always bubble to the surface.

Dalreg Oct 19, 2006 7:21 PM

Actually it is quite hard to get the tone from a written message. I have tried this kind of humor myself on this site and others and all it does is tend to get people in trouble or make enemies in the long run.

Steely Dan Oct 19, 2006 7:25 PM

^ dude, it's just an internet forum, don't take the shit that goes on here so seriously.

Dalreg Oct 19, 2006 7:57 PM

I'm not. No problems.

Now back to the topic.

Is O'Hare used much by private planes, such as corporate jets?

hoosier Oct 19, 2006 9:43 PM

Gary is the PERFECT place for a third Chicago airport. Interstate 90 and U.S. Routes 12 and 20 already serve the airport and there is little phyiscal infrastructure that would need to be removed. Not to mention that it would entail minimal environmental disruption and has the support of the people of NW Indiana. I would like to see the Illinois and Indiana state governments get together and put forward a Gary Airport modernization plan to accomodate the travel and commerce needs of the Chicagoland area.

Marcu Oct 19, 2006 10:02 PM

If Gary wants to have a major airport do something about it. Don't wait for Chicago to hand you one. That's obviously never going to happen.

Do what Newark did with New York. Put some money forward, build it up, publicize it.

Stop looking for Chicago to prop you up.

VivaLFuego Oct 20, 2006 2:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcu
If Gary wants to have a major airport do something about it. Don't wait for Chicago to hand you one. That's obviously never going to happen.

Do what Newark did with New York. Put some money forward, build it up, publicize it.

Stop looking for Chicago to prop you up.

Agreed in principle. Gary/Indiana took a good first step by reaching into the pork barrell for the tens of millions in upgrades that will start soon, which include lengthening the main runway to 9,000ft and improving the terminal building.
Next, aside from obviously luring some commercial flights, they should run a shuttle bus to/from the nearby South Shore station, using this as leverage to demonstrate the airports convenience to downtown. They will also probably be in a better transportation position once the Dan Ryan and Kingery construction is complete, as right now, getting to the airport by car is a traffic nightmare from just about anywhere in Illinois.

jpIllInoIs Oct 20, 2006 4:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego
Agreed in principle. Gary/Indiana took a good first step by reaching into the pork barrell for the tens of millions in upgrades that will start soon, which include lengthening the main runway to 9,000ft and improving the terminal building. Next, aside from obviously luring some commercial flights, they should run a shuttle bus to/from the nearby South Shore station, using this as leverage to demonstrate the airports convenience to downtown. They will also probably be in a better transportation position once the Dan Ryan and Kingery construction is complete, as right now, getting to the airport by car is a traffic nightmare from just about anywhere in Illinois.

Actually, under an agreement with the city of Chicago - Gary Airport receives several million $$ per year from the Chicago Airport landing fees.

It was part of Daley's superior leverage move to form an inter-state airport commission that checkmated the Illinois Republican party when they were trying to gain control of the ALL of Chicago's airports by creating a STATE wide airport commission during Republican Gov. Jim Edgar's term. The Republicans were going to give themselves 7 seats on a 11 seat board. Leaving them in firm control of all of the airports operations. Daley masterminded a Bi-State commission that used Federal Law to one up Illiinois state law.

Long-short is that Chicago has been partially financing Gary improvements.

jpIllInoIs Oct 22, 2006 4:10 PM

Related to O'Hare?

Gary airport gets $20 million for airport expansion


Associated Press

October 13, 2006, 1:10 PM CDT

GARY, Ind. -- The Gary-Chicago International Airport received a $20 million boost Friday when the state gave the Northwest Indiana Regional Development Authority funds earmarked for the air field.

The money, which comes from the $3.8 billion the state received for leasing the Indiana Toll Road to foreign investors, will be used to help pay for expanding one of the airport's two runways from 6,500 feet to 9,000 feet and moving railroad tracks that run along the airport's northwestern border.

City officials are hoping the expansion will help the airport, which is planning a $90 million expansion, become the region's third major air hub behind Chicago's O'Hare and Midway airports.

The $20 million in state funds, combined with local funds, has helped to attract more substantial federal grants for the runway project.

Also Friday, Sky Value, a British airline, announced it will begin service in the United States, running its first regularly scheduled passenger flights out of the Gary airport starting Dec. 1.


Copyright © 2006, The Associated Press

Nowhereman1280 Oct 23, 2006 3:21 AM

I would think that, in addition to O'hare, Midway, and (possibly) Gary, that they should integrate Mitchell international in Milwaukee (which is a decent sized and underutilized airport) into the whole regional deal. As far as I am concerned, The Chicago region is everything south and east from the Madison-Milwaukee line to Gary.

Of course MKE (Mitchel) is currently poorly connected with Chicagoland and that would need to be fixed. There was talk a few years back of alieviating some of the congestion at O'hare by building a high speed (150mph or something like that) train line between MKE and O'hare. At that speed it would only take 30-40 min to make the trip, not to mention it would foster regional connectivity and be enormusly popular with not only Milwaukeeians going to Chicago to shop, but also with the countless throngs of people who travel to Wisconsin from Chicago to chill out on the weekends. This would be a really simple way to greatly reduce traffic out of O'hare because MKE is capable of performing nearly all of the duties of O'hare (minus A-380s) with half the wait.

Has anyone heard anything about this rail line? I thought I heard that it was being built a while back?

Edit: PS, I think that Daley should pull a Meigs Field on anyone who gets in the way of the O'hare expansion and buldoze X's through the opposition's houses in the middle of the night!

Marcu Oct 23, 2006 3:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280
There was talk a few years back of alieviating some of the congestion at O'hare by building a high speed (150mph or something like that) train line between MKE and O'hare. At that speed it would only take 30-40 min to make the trip, not to mention it would foster regional connectivity and be enormusly popular with not only Milwaukeeians going to Chicago to shop, but also with the countless throngs of people who travel to Wisconsin from Chicago to chill out on the weekends. This would be a really simple way to greatly reduce traffic out of O'hare because MKE is capable of performing nearly all of the duties of O'hare (minus A-380s) with half the wait.

Has anyone heard anything about this rail line? I thought I heard that it was being built a while back?

Something like this would face very stiff opposition since it would have to go through established and in many cases very wealthy suburban communites. I don't see it happening in the near future, that is unless hwy traffic gets unbearable.

Hot Rod Oct 24, 2006 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpIllInoIs
Related to O'Hare?

Gary airport gets $20 million for airport expansion


Associated Press

October 13, 2006, 1:10 PM CDT

GARY, Ind. -- The Gary-Chicago International Airport received a $20 million boost Friday when the state gave the Northwest Indiana Regional Development Authority funds earmarked for the air field.

The money, which comes from the $3.8 billion the state received for leasing the Indiana Toll Road to foreign investors, will be used to help pay for expanding one of the airport's two runways from 6,500 feet to 9,000 feet and moving railroad tracks that run along the airport's northwestern border.

City officials are hoping the expansion will help the airport, which is planning a $90 million expansion, become the region's third major air hub behind Chicago's O'Hare and Midway airports.

The $20 million in state funds, combined with local funds, has helped to attract more substantial federal grants for the runway project.

Also Friday, Sky Value, a British airline, announced it will begin service in the United States, running its first regularly scheduled passenger flights out of the Gary airport starting Dec. 1.


Copyright © 2006, The Associated Press


This is great news. Hopefully, this will be the catalyst that Gary/Chicago International Airport needs. Yes, we do need to expand O'hare - but we also need reliever airports given the dense airspace and restrictions at O'hare (and Midway).

During the O'Hare expansion, Gary/Chicago could take on some of the international. Even after expansion, Gary could provide service for some 10M pax per year??? That would be cool if (in general), O'hare at 150M (new capacity assumed, probably assured no doubt), Midway at 20M (all domestic, Southwest Airlines HUB), and Gary/Chicago at 10M (combo of International reliever, other low cost airlines and East Coast domestic shuttle).

That scenario would put Chicagoland at 180M pax per year. Im very hopeful for the 2006 news which might pit the Chicago region at 100M pax per year.

:banana:

brian_b Oct 24, 2006 2:07 PM

Nice, www.flyskyvalue.com - Gary to Vegas for $79 this December. Not bad.

orulz Oct 24, 2006 3:14 PM

Long time lurker in Chicago threads.

There really needs to be a better link between the South Shore line and the terminal at the Gary airport before it becomes a magnet for passengers from throughout the region. Right now, the train lets off on the other side of the tollway over a mile from the terminal. A shuttle bus could suffice, but that's not good enough for the thousands of passengers a day who would hopefully be using this airport.

At full build-out, the aiport's Master Plan calls for a single-location multimodal station for South Shore, intercity bus, Amtrak, and air passenger transfers. The master plan map is awfully low resolution so I can't figure out what's going on; does anyone have further information on how they'd want to do this? Perhaps a relocation so that rather than running next to the tollway, the South Shore cuts through downtown East Chicago on the freight line that's there today. There could then be a stop in East Chicago east of the tollway. This would also place the South Shore tracks right next to the tracks used by Amtrak. Perhaps they could arrange to trade the freight right-of-way for the existing South Shore right-of-way along the tollway.

Rail Claimore Oct 24, 2006 3:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orulz
Long time lurker in Chicago threads.

There really needs to be a better link between the South Shore line and the terminal at the Gary airport before it becomes a magnet for passengers from throughout the region. Right now, the train lets off on the other side of the tollway over a mile from the terminal. A shuttle bus could suffice, but that's not good enough for the thousands of passengers a day who would hopefully be using this airport.

At full build-out, the aiport's Master Plan calls for a single-location multimodal station for South Shore, intercity bus, Amtrak, and air passenger transfers. The master plan map is awfully low resolution so I can't figure out what's going on; does anyone have further information on how they'd want to do this? Perhaps a relocation so that rather than running next to the tollway, the South Shore cuts through downtown East Chicago on the freight line that's there today. There could then be a stop in East Chicago east of the tollway. This would also place the South Shore tracks right next to the tracks used by Amtrak. Perhaps they could arrange to trade the freight right-of-way for the existing South Shore right-of-way along the tollway.

They could build a spur of that line or a people-mover from the current station like AirTrain to JFK and EWR. Midway already receives international traffic from the rest of the continent and has international gates. It's nowhere near O'hare's capacity, but it's there. MDW's max capacity as it is now, and will be for the forseeable future, is 30 mil.

Gary will eventually be Chicagoland's #2 airport years down the road, akin to Newark for the NYC region for several reasons: unlike Midway, Gary is expandable because it's almost completely surrounded by industrial sites and brownfields. Also, Gary has lots of direct transportation links: south shore, amtrak, I-90, Cline Rd. The infrastructure around the whole thing could handle another airport at least the size of what O'hare currently is long-term. It's just a matter of expanding the airport itself to some monster that O'hare's being expanded to. Look for that 30 years down the road.

VivaLFuego Oct 24, 2006 4:26 PM

I've thought about the rail issue at Gary too. A shuttle bus is good for now. Potentially they could also just built a spur, with some trains terminating at Gary Airport. The other key issue is that South Shore frequencies would have to be increased in order to be viable transportation to the airport, and perhaps a line from downtown to only as far as the airport would have high enough ridership to justify increased frequency (every 30 min or so)

brian_b Oct 24, 2006 4:56 PM

I've always thought that it would be a great idea if the Indiana casinos worked with the airport to buy/lease time on one of the right of ways that runs north of the airport and south of the casinos and into Chicago. Have stops at the casinos and the airport and then a couple in Chicago.

In fact, open Google maps on the satellite view and follow the Metra Electric/South Shore tracks south until you hit the Skyway. Build a connection right there to the railroad right of way that follows the Skyway on the north. Follow that right of way all the way to the Gary airport area and notice how it passes by the East Chicago/Whiting casino, the Hammond casino and the Gary casinos. You could even make the casino stops closer to the boats than the existing parking lots!

jpIllInoIs Nov 3, 2006 2:01 PM

^ It's all good... I find the very last quote most interesting. This Rep State Sen admits that the Suburban GOP is ready to get on board and vote to fund the plans. The opposition coalition is toothless and fractured for good. :banana:

Oshkosh49 Nov 3, 2006 3:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280
I would think that, in addition to O'hare, Midway, and (possibly) Gary, that they should integrate Mitchell international in Milwaukee (which is a decent sized and underutilized airport) into the whole regional deal. As far as I am concerned, The Chicago region is everything south and east from the Madison-Milwaukee line to Gary.

Of course MKE (Mitchel) is currently poorly connected with Chicagoland and that would need to be fixed. There was talk a few years back of alieviating some of the congestion at O'hare by building a high speed (150mph or something like that) train line between MKE and O'hare. At that speed it would only take 30-40 min to make the trip, not to mention it would foster regional connectivity and be enormusly popular with not only Milwaukeeians going to Chicago to shop, but also with the countless throngs of people who travel to Wisconsin from Chicago to chill out on the weekends. This would be a really simple way to greatly reduce traffic out of O'hare because MKE is capable of performing nearly all of the duties of O'hare (minus A-380s) with half the wait.

There is a brand new train station at the western edge of Mitchell International Airport that utilizes Amtrak's Hiawatha Line railroad that goes to Chicago. It opened up on January 18, 2005. It's not high speed rail, but there is a decent rail connection between Chicago and Mitchell International.

hoosier Nov 3, 2006 8:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcu
If Gary wants to have a major airport do something about it. Don't wait for Chicago to hand you one. That's obviously never going to happen.

Do what Newark did with New York. Put some money forward, build it up, publicize it.

Stop looking for Chicago to prop you up.

Hey asshole, go bitch to the governor and state legislature in Indianapolis about that. I was just hypothesizing that perhaps the states of Indiana and Illinois could form a regional infrastructure organization akin to the Port Authority to coordinate the transportation needs of the region.

And Milwaukee's airport is much further from Chicago than Gary's, so that city's airport should be given top consideration to fulfill the overflow of air traffic from O'Hare and Midway.

the urban politician Nov 5, 2006 5:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoosier
Hey asshole, go bitch to the governor and state legislature in Indianapolis about that. I was just hypothesizing that perhaps the states of Indiana and Illinois could form a regional infrastructure organization akin to the Port Authority to coordinate the transportation needs of the region.

And Milwaukee's airport is much further from Chicago than Gary's, so that city's airport should be given top consideration to fulfill the overflow of air traffic from O'Hare and Midway.

^ While agreed, I must say--take a chill pill.

Rx: Diazepam
Sig i po qd
#30
3 refills

Marcu Nov 6, 2006 8:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoosier
Gary is the PERFECT place for a third Chicago airport. Interstate 90 and U.S. Routes 12 and 20 already serve the airport and there is little phyiscal infrastructure that would need to be removed. Not to mention that it would entail minimal environmental disruption and has the support of the people of NW Indiana. I would like to see the Illinois and Indiana state governments get together and put forward a Gary Airport modernization plan to accomodate the travel and commerce needs of the Chicagoland area.

I never questioned that Gary is "perfect". I was simply encouraging Indiana to develop the airport and publicize it to Chicago residents. We can't rely on the Illinois legislature to put cost and convenience ahead of in-state union jobs and contracts. It's really up Indiana to take lead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoosier
Hey asshole, go bitch to the governor and state legislature in Indianapolis about that. I was just hypothesizing that perhaps the states of Indiana and Illinois could form a regional infrastructure organization akin to the Port Authority to coordinate the transportation needs of the region.

And Milwaukee's airport is much further from Chicago than Gary's, so that city's airport should be given top consideration to fulfill the overflow of air traffic from O'Hare and Midway.

Sounds like a good idea and I'd be all for it. However, politically speaking Indiana must first commit some money towards Gary. At this point, Indiana doesn't have much to offer for Illinois at the negotiations table.

As for complaining to the Indiana governor and legislature, I'll leave that to the citizens of Indiana.

VivaLFuego Nov 6, 2006 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcu
I never questioned that Gary is "perfect". I was simply encouraging Indiana to develop the airport and publicize it to Chicago residents. We can't rely on the Illinois legislature to put cost and convenience ahead of in-state union jobs and contracts. It's really up Indiana to take lead.



Sounds like a good idea and I'd be all for it. However, politically speaking Indiana must first commit some money towards Gary. At this point, Indiana doesn't have much to offer for Illinois at the negotiations table.

As for complaining to the Indiana governor and legislature, I'll leave that to the citizens of Indiana.

It would seem Indiana has alot to gain financially from trying to associate more with the Chicago area and developing NW Indiana into a significant part of the metro area, such as heavily promoting Gary Airport, improving service on the South Shore line and bringing back commuter rail going south along the state line towards Valparaiso.

the urban politician Nov 7, 2006 1:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego
It would seem Indiana has alot to gain financially from trying to associate more with the Chicago area and developing NW Indiana into a significant part of the metro area, such as heavily promoting Gary Airport, improving service on the South Shore line and bringing back commuter rail going south along the state line towards Valparaiso.

^ There is slowly but surely some progress being made in this direction, and Indiana's tech scene is gaining some ground. But for the most part, as long as that state is heavily dominated by Republicans I'm sure they'll find a way to completely blow such opportunities for more important things like building new 10-lane highways, eliminating gay marriage, illegalizing rational thought, etc etc...

Wheelingman04 Nov 7, 2006 5:37 AM

^ I think you are right. Mitch Daniels is a nut.

hoosier Nov 8, 2006 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician
^ There is slowly but surely some progress being made in this direction, and Indiana's tech scene is gaining some ground. But for the most part, as long as that state is heavily dominated by Republicans I'm sure they'll find a way to completely blow such opportunities for more important things like building new 10-lane highways, eliminating gay marriage, illegalizing rational thought, etc etc...

Tell me about it. Mitch leased the Indiana Toll Road for 75 years and the state received $3.2 billion in return. Guess how much of that money is going to rail transit? ZERO!!!!!!!!!!!:hell: :hell:

The state will widen I-69 to 14 lanes before building Indy and NW Indiana a good public transportation system.

BVictor1 Nov 24, 2006 5:45 PM

http://www.midwestconstructionmag.co...0611_cover.asp

O'Hare Expansion

For Modernization Chief, All's Rosy in O'Hare Job

Rosemarie Andolino
by Craig Barner

She brings to mind the blasts of power coming from the jet engines taxiing on the field of O'Hare International Airport.

Rosemarie Andolino, the executive director of the O'Hare Modernization Program, is a gust of information about the expansion of the airport in Chicago.

Ask her for a fact of the project, such as the runway layout, and she has it at her fingertips. Walk up to a segment of construction on the far western edge of the airfield, and she describes in detail what is going on. Mention a negative of the project, and she comes back with a positive.

She brings 16 years city government experience to the position. Prior to being named the head of OMP in June 2003, Andolino had been in the City Department of Planning and Development starting in 1999, including as first deputy commissioner in 2001.

Recently, Midwest Construction editor Craig Barner had an opportunity to sit down with Andolino to learn more behind the executive in charge of the nation's biggest construction project.


MWC:

You have worked in Chicago government for at least 16 years and in at least five city agencies, including the city council committee on transportation, Mayor Daley's correspondence unit and the Department of Consumer Services. Besides the obvious things like the size of OMP, what is the key difference in this assignment compared with previous ones?

ANDOLINO:

There are a few important distinctions with this program as opposed to other city departments I have worked with. First, of the approximately 300 staff I manage, the vast majority are consultants instead of city of Chicago employees.

Also, I didn't oversee actual construction in my last position. In the Chicago Department of Planning and Development, we provided assistance in the form of Tax Increment Financing to stimulate developers to move ahead with manufacturing, commercial or residential construction projects. Here, I am responsible for the actual construction and execution of the project.

Finally, there is a clear beginning and end to this project. Our program elements are clearly defined, and as we complete them, they are turned over to the Chicago Department of Aviation to maintain. When the program has been fully implemented, our department will essentially go away.

The program is also unique in the sense that we are moving forward with one of the largest construction projects in the country, and it is being built on top of the world's busiest airport.



MWC:

You have the facts, data and plans of OMP at your fingertips.
What element of your background prepared you most for such a demanding project?

ANDOLINO:

I have worked closely with elected officials for years. That experience taught me to always be prepared. But the best education has come from working for Mayor Daley. His expectations and overall knowledge of the city requires you to always be prepared and know all the details about your project because he is bound to inquire and challenge you on the issues related to your department.

I feel strongly that you should have passion for what you do, you can never be over prepared, and if you don't know the answer to a question, seek out your experts and find the answer.

MWC:

Construction is a male-dominated profession. This is not necessarily true anymore in the professions. For example, there are probably more female than male doctors under 40 years old now and there are more female than male undergraduate university students. But in construction and design, men still dominate, even among those who are under 40. Overall, men in construction are respectful of women in the field, but have you encountered sexism and how did you handle it?


ANDOLINO:

I haven't encountered any resistance or push-back based on my gender. In fact, everyone has treated me with respect. I work hard to keep the lines of communication open and I have an open door policy in the office. And most of all I respect the talented people who work on this project and I think it's mutual.

We are fortunate to have a lot of diversity on this project- both in the office and out in the field. We have made a strong commitment to achieving significant MBE/WBE participation, and that commitment is evident during our all-staff team meetings when I see the wonderful mix of people involved in all aspects of this project.



MWC:

A great deal of sensitivity is needed for a project like the expansion of O'Hare because many people and municipalities oppose it. For example, according to a recent news report, Bensenville refused to even formally respond to a solicitation from the city to acquire some streets. Are you trying to maintain regular contact with people and organizations that are fighting the project to keep open dialogue and how?


ANDOLINO:

First of all, there are only two communities left that oppose this program.
When Mayor Daley appointed me to this position three years ago, he told me to always provide accurate information to the public, maintain a transparent Website and go meet with elected officials throughout the region and provide them with the facts about the program.

And we've done just that. We have met with more than 200 locally elected officials and municipal organizations in the past three years to provide them with accurate information about this program and show them how a modernized O'Hare benefits their communities. There has been a lot of misinformation put out by our opposition about this program. So when we provide the real facts about the program, they are impressed. As a result, more than 140 mayors, municipal organizations and county boards have passed resolutions in support of this program. And we continue this outreach even though the program is approved and construction is ongoing.



MWC:

You grew up in northwest suburban Elk Grove Village. It has been the second most vociferous in opposing the expansion of O'Hare after Bensenville. Do friends, family and acquaintances in Elk Grove complain about the project
and how do you handle it?


ANDOLINO:


No- in fact I have received a tremendous amount of support from my family and friends in the suburbs-especially my parents who still reside in Elk Grove Village.

I think that the majority of the people know about the economic benefits O'Hare brings to the region in terms of jobs and opportunities, both directly and indirectly.

It's all about location, location, location. Our suburban communities know that O'Hare is the economic engine for the region's economy and most embrace it. The fierce competition for service at O'Hare fosters more choices for air passengers. And, because of O'Hare's importance to the national aviation system, the surrounding communities have strong industrial parks, great schools and corporate headquarters located out there.


MWC:

Have you had to evoke eminent domain to acquire land or do you expect to do this?


ANDOLINO:

We have used eminent domain on a number of parcels thus far. With the exception of the parcels owned by the Village of Bensenville, all of those filings simply have to do with determining the purchase price of the properties. Thus far we have acquired 265 of the 611 parcels we need to acquire in Bensenville, and we have been contacted by nearly 500 property owners interested in selling their property to the city of Chicago.



MWC:

You have two key issues to resolve so the project can go forward as it is currently conceived: acquiring the rights for the land where St. Johannes Cemetery is located and getting the funding for the Lima Lima airfield taxiway. Do you think each will succeed?


ANDOLINO:

We are awaiting a decision from the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals on the challenge to our ability to take title to St. Johannes Cemetery. We are confident that we will be successful, just as we have been on every other legal challenge to this program.

While we realize this is a sensitive issue, it is important to note that cemeteries have been acquired all over the country for public purpose. In Illinois, for example, a cemetery was relocated for the Eisenhower Expressway construction. Cemeteries have also been relocated for airport projects in St. Louis; Montgomery County, Tenn.; Manchester, N.H.; Montgomery, Ala.; and Toronto.

Taxiway Lima Lima helps operations at certain demand levels. We are confident that when it is needed, we will secure the funding from our airline partners.



MWC:

What are the contracting goals for minority-business-enterprise/women-business-enterprise levels on the project? Where are you currently at?


ANDOLINO:

We are committed to achieving the City of Chicago's aspirational goals of 24 percent MBE and 4 percent WBE participation. To accomplish those goals, we have held four OMP Contractor Open House sessions to raise awareness about this program. We post detailed information about the anticipated bid packages online at www.OhareModernization.org to give contractors the opportunity to plan to bid on our project. The Open Houses also presents an opportunity to network with contractors of every size and type. We will continue to make it known throughout the construction industry that we want to achieve those goals.

Additionally, at our last Contractor Open House, we invited nine additional local and state agencies to present information on their upcoming bid packages, something that had never been done before in the City of Chicago.

MWC:

The OMP's green and sustainability elements are impressive because they seek to go beyond the obvious things. What did you do to learn about sustainable construction and design and why are you trying to make this
such a major element of OMP?


ANDOLINO:

I listened to my boss! Under Mayor Daley's leadership, the city of Chicago is a national leader in incorporating sustainable designs principles on city projects and encouraging its use in private developments.

We embraced Mayor Daley's vision and developed a program that incorporates "green" principles into virtually every facet of design and construction. This program, detailed in the OMP Sustainable Design Manual, breaks new ground by designing, tracking and awarding sustainable design initiatives for civil construction projects and occupied buildings. The SDM was a collaborative effort between a number of city departments, industry experts and stakeholders.

The SDM serves as a model for the aviation industry and outside regulatory agencies, and encourages them to develop new programs that evaluates, implements and recognizes achievements in incorporating environmentally-friendly initiatives in non-traditional ways.


MWC:

OMP is in its infancy, but a lot has been done already. What are you most proud of?


ANDOLINO:

We have so much to be proud of. First, we were committed to breaking ground the same day we received the FAA Record of Decision. And we did.

We had our contracts in place and were ready to go when the FAA approved our program in September 2005.

We secured federal funding for construction, which we also committed to and achieved. We also closed the largest bond sale in the city's history, a $1.5 billion bond sale, to fund construction.

We have also implemented an aggressive outreach program within the engineering, design and construction industry, and throughout the surrounding communities to inform people about this project of national significance. And we have been successful.

We have successfully employed "green" initiatives throughout this program in a way no one else has attempted to date.

And we are proud of the excellent and diverse mix of designers, planners, engineers and construction contractors working every day to ensure the success of this program. We have come this far because of their hard work and dedication, and I look forward to successfully implementing the entire project. The sooner we complete construction, the sooner air passengers and the airlines will realize the tremendous benefits of a modernized O'Hare- one that will experience reduced delays, increased capacity, and will be well-equipped to handle expected demand well into the future.

Nowhereman1280 Nov 24, 2006 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoosier
And Milwaukee's airport is much further from Chicago than Gary's, so that city's airport should be given top consideration to fulfill the overflow of air traffic from O'Hare and Midway.

Umm, not really true, Gary is almost if not as far from O'hare as MKE. Look at a map and notice that O'hare is on the Northwest side of Chicago and MKE is on the far south side of Milwaukee, while Gary is on the Far south East side of Chicago, there is not much of a difference as far as raw distance goes. Then take into account how you have to drive clear through Chicago to get between O'hare and Gary, *cough* TRAFFIC *Cough*, something there is not much of between O'hare and MKE...


Yes Oskosh49 I know about that new train station, in fact, I frequently use the Hiwatha line when I go home to Milwaukee to visit family. What I was talking about was the highspeed version directly to O'hare they proposed a few years ago. I don't see why it would be an issue to run high speed trains through the "rich northern suburbs" of Chicago, its not like they would be building new tracks and condemming houses to build it, the tracks already exist, they would just need to make them welded tracks and improve some of the road crossings.

Anyhow it was just a thought and inquiry because they sure made a huge stink about it two or three years ago when they proposed it!

Grego43 Nov 26, 2006 2:32 AM

[quote=Nowhereman1280]Umm, not really true, Gary is almost if not as far from O'hare as MKE. Look at a map and notice that O'hare is on the Northwest side of Chicago and MKE is on the far south side of Milwaukee, while Gary is on the Far south East side of Chicago, there is not much of a difference as far as raw distance goes. Then take into account how you have to drive clear through Chicago to get between O'hare and Gary, *cough* TRAFFIC *Cough*, something there is not much of between O'hare and MKE...


Umm, yes really is true, Nowhereman1280...

From ORD to MKE (Milwaukee) is about 74 miles.
From ORD to GYY (Gary) is about 43 miles.

Estimates per Mapquest.

Have you ever had the pleasure of driving the Tollway toward MKE on a rush-hour afternoon...especially on Friday???

Quite a difference.

Chicago2020 Nov 26, 2006 4:58 AM

Proposed Transit Center for O'Hare

http://www.oharedirect.org/images/level1.jpg

Chicago Shawn Nov 26, 2006 5:40 PM

^That looks sweet!

alex1 Nov 26, 2006 5:56 PM

would that transit center replace the current one? Sorry, I haven't followed O'hare news much as it's painful to hear the arguments and counter-arguments for and against it.

what's up with the 3 stories? Will there be considerable amount of retail in it?


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