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-   -   CHICAGO: Transit Developments (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101657)

VivaLFuego Nov 16, 2006 7:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcu
It seems like the CTA and RTA prefer to address budget shortfalls after the fact. The agencies look like they can't manage their own finances when every single year they run a deficit and go to the Assembly to beg for a bailout. They would have a lot more credibility if they just said this is the money we have for this year so we're going to cut service. If you want more service, call your rep.

The CTA and RTA have only been trying to bring public attention to the funding problems for years while managing to maintain service levels (with one bailout involved), what more do you want? They tried threatening large service cuts to balance the budget and everyone got pissed off and the state came up with the bailout. Now they are trying a more 'optimistic' note that the funding will be found rather than outlining a doomsday....and they get crap for that. There's no pleasing some people. And for the record, yes, I agree CTA should just go through with the service cuts and balance the budget and if people want more service from there, they'll understand it will cost more money. But I also see how CTA has no easy choices in their quest to solve the problem.

A new program like Illinois FIRST would go along way towards addressing these needs, in theory, that is if CTA doesn't just dump the money into the Airport Express rather than viaduct repair (which is what's killing them on the north side).

pip Nov 17, 2006 3:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicago Shawn
More bullshit, sometimes I wish Chicago was in a country which places transit infrastructure on a high priority. The world's richist nation can spend nearly $400 billion blowing up and rebuilding another nation, but we continue to let infrastructure in our own backyard rot. Unable to budget 500 million over 4 years, come the fuck on, I really hope a solution is in the works....

A few months ago the CTA assured us that the slow zones would be gone by the end of the year. A few weeks ago the CTA said it needed 100 million to get rid of the slow zones. Now the CTA says it needs 500 million.

This is one time I will agree with the financially conservative suburbs. You can throw all that money at the CTA and viola I can guarantee you 500 million will not get rid of the slow zones. How much is the Brown line over budget and behind schedule? They just started. The CTA is an extremely incompetant organization from the lazy workers who don't care to the patronage management who is equelly as bad. Maybe the CTA needs to be starved or just start over with all new people and all new contracts.

No amount of money will solve the problems of the CTA. It is a money pit. The more money it gets the more it will waste.

It is too bad, I always advocate more money for transit but I do have to agree in this one rare instance giving more money to the CTA as it is currently formed is a waste and will do nothing to help the future of transit in Chicago.

Busy Bee Nov 17, 2006 4:20 AM

Has anyone seen the movie Gung Ho?

This may not apply as much at present, since we've adopted more efficient principles in many aspects of our economy, but it makes you wonder if we need to bring in the Japanese or something.

Pick the best operated system in the world and more than likely you'll end up with Tokyo or maybe Paris or Copenhagen. These systems are efficient, on time, clean, financially stable and desirable to people of all income levels.

Maybe this has to do with receiving more funding, but maybe there is more to it. Maybe the CTA does in fact seriously suffer from lazy, inept, bad attitude plagued employees that should never come into contact w/ the public. And worse, incompetents at the switch that just do not have the capabilty, wisdom and imagination to create and run a world class transit system.


In other words, someone needs to kick the CTA's ass into shape or just have a hostile takeover or something.

VivaLFuego Nov 17, 2006 4:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip
How much is the Brown line over budget and behind schedule?

Not very. The whole project will still be done on time. Some stuff has had to be rephased because the city has taken so long in granting permits. And to my knowledge, they havent had to reprogram any additional capital money; in fact, they've cut down on the complexity of station design to ensure they stay within budget.

Quote:

The CTA is an extremely incompetant organization from the lazy workers who don't care to the patronage management who is equelly as bad. Maybe the CTA needs to be starved or just start over with all new people and all new contracts.
If the political situation allowed management to play tough with the unions, believe me the operation would quickly become much more efficient. Are there some incompetent people in the organization who got there because of patronage? Yeah. But a very large chunk of CTA staff and operations are people very devoted to transit who would love to be able to run a good system if they had the financial means and lack of poltiical constraints.

CTA is NOT run like a business, it is a run like a political entity/public service....because, well, its a political entity/public service. If you want a business-like CTA, say goodbye to most off-peak service throughout the city. People kid themselves if they think this isn't an auto city in 95+% of cases other than rush hour commuting to downtown. It's the frequent off-peak service that hemmorages money.

the urban politician Nov 18, 2006 5:53 AM

The full report for the recommended airport premium service is posted now. I'm not sure if anyone has noticed it before:

http://www.transitchicago.com/news/m...ress200610.pdf

It's pretty interesting--it seems to make a case that such a service would be profitable and successful. Of course, they could be completely wrong. One disappointment is that they are NOT recommending baggage check-in at 108 N State St. That's just another reason NOT to use this service, if you ask me, but whatever.

VivaLFuego Nov 18, 2006 3:31 PM

Having a "premium" service sharing the same tracks as peon service is not gonna go over well in the papers or with the CTA riding public.

Marcu Nov 19, 2006 2:41 AM

It just amazes me how the CTA (and some of its supporters) manage to rationalize or deflect to the state every criticism directed towards it.

Chicago3rd Nov 19, 2006 4:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego
A new program like Illinois FIRST would go along way towards addressing these needs, in theory, that is if CTA doesn't just dump the money into the Airport Express rather than viaduct repair (which is what's killing them on the north side).

What kills me are stupid people in the public. First they under fund CTA for decades. Then CTA pulls a miracle and turns service around and starts upgrading these last 10 years...and they are getting a smaller part of the funding from the state. I get really pissed at CTA sometimes...but folks...we are getting what we pay for. I cannot find much fault with the audit that came out a few weeks ago:

http://www.state.il.us/auditor/Chi%2...5%20digest.htm

robhut Nov 19, 2006 2:58 PM

I don't think we can generalize because of an experience in a flight or whatever.
I've flown many different companies and all are about the same.
It depends on many conditions and situations. I personally work in a hotel, and some days everyone is complaining and some days everyone is saying how wonderfull the service was, that is providing the same product.
When i work in the hotel i don't have the same mood, that is goona affect the impression of the guest. Also their situation at that moment, if they had a bad day or good day. Many, many things...
Personally i have flown BA and AF and it wasn't that wonderfull experience it was just a regular flight like if i did it with IB or AA or any other.

the urban politician Nov 19, 2006 5:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robhut
I don't think we can generalize because of an experience in a flight or whatever.
I've flown many different companies and all are about the same.
It depends on many conditions and situations. I personally work in a hotel, and some days everyone is complaining and some days everyone is saying how wonderfull the service was, that is providing the same product.
When i work in the hotel i don't have the same mood, that is goona affect the impression of the guest. Also their situation at that moment, if they had a bad day or good day. Many, many things...
Personally i have flown BA and AF and it wasn't that wonderfull experience it was just a regular flight like if i did it with IB or AA or any other.

^ What the f#@k are you talking about?

alex1 Nov 19, 2006 5:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcu
It just amazes me how the CTA (and some of its supporters) manage to rationalize or deflect to the state every criticism directed towards it.

public transit is a responsibility of who exactly? should it not be in good working order?

the benefits of good transportation has an overall effect that saves money. Smoother streets mean less stress and damage to someone's car. Better mass transit means less congestion for those who drive leading to more efficiency, less gas wasted waiting in traffic and cleaner air (resulting in less pulminary problems in some people).

There's a reason why less wealthy nations have much better mass transit systems then the U.S. has. It's just cheaper.

Marcu Nov 20, 2006 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcu
It just amazes me how the CTA (and some of its supporters) manage to rationalize or deflect to the state every criticism directed towards it.
public transit is a responsibility of who exactly? should it not be in good working order?

the benefits of good transportation has an overall effect that saves money. Smoother streets mean less stress and damage to someone's car. Better mass transit means less congestion for those who drive leading to more efficiency, less gas wasted waiting in traffic and cleaner air (resulting in less pulminary problems in some people).

There's a reason why less wealthy nations have much better mass transit systems then the U.S. has. It's just cheaper.

You got a good point. I'm just not sure how it addresses my point. I totally agree that a good mass transit system is needed for a number of reasons. The CTA is ruining mass transit, not helping mass transit. They need to start taking some responsibility. The biggest impedement to more funding is the percieved corruption and incompetence of the CTA.

Taft Nov 20, 2006 7:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcu
You got a good point. I'm just not sure how it addresses my point. I totally agree that a good mass transit system is needed for a number of reasons. The CTA is ruining mass transit, not helping mass transit. They need to start taking some responsibility. The biggest impedement to more funding is the percieved corruption and incompetence of the CTA.

I agree that this a problem. However, I don't think it is the principle problem. Rather, the public attitude of "I don't ride it so it isn't my problem" is the largest hurdle to proper funding.

Americans have much more of a conservative/libertarian streak in them than Europeans. Fend for yourself and leave me alone. They aren't looking at a common good. They aren't looking at building the most efficient and cheapest system available. They *are* thinking: I like my car and I don't really care about how that decision effects everyone's life.

So I see the two largest problems with funding as: 1) attitude and 2) education. The former is a difficult problem to overcome and I frankly have no idea how to fix it. The latter is a bit better. Why do people support billion dollar overhauls of major highways? Because they can see the direct impact it will have on their quality of life: they can get in the car and go from point A to point B faster. By educating people as to how transit improvements will make their lives better, we increase the chance they will get behind transit initiatives which increases the likelihood of funding.

Taft

VivaLFuego Nov 21, 2006 12:02 AM

Nevermind that we have probably the best big city bus system in the country. . . .

CTA just needs to start being honest about what it costs to run a rail system well . Including the real costs of maintenance and operations, rather than allowing nickel-and-diming the system. We are seeing the results of this cheapness now.

the urban politician Nov 21, 2006 5:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taft
I agree that this a problem. However, I don't think it is the principle problem. Rather, the public attitude of "I don't ride it so it isn't my problem" is the largest hurdle to proper funding.

Americans have much more of a conservative/libertarian streak in them than Europeans. Fend for yourself and leave me alone. They aren't looking at a common good. They aren't looking at building the most efficient and cheapest system available. They *are* thinking: I like my car and I don't really care about how that decision effects everyone's life.

So I see the two largest problems with funding as: 1) attitude and 2) education. The former is a difficult problem to overcome and I frankly have no idea how to fix it. The latter is a bit better. Why do people support billion dollar overhauls of major highways? Because they can see the direct impact it will have on their quality of life: they can get in the car and go from point A to point B faster. By educating people as to how transit improvements will make their lives better, we increase the chance they will get behind transit initiatives which increases the likelihood of funding.

Taft

^ Americans weren't like that before the 1950's. I wonder what the hell happened to this place? I think everyone is just a bit too damn spoiled--suburbia is almost like our Govt-sponsored adult theme park

alex1 Nov 21, 2006 5:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician
^ Americans weren't like that before the 1950's. I wonder what the hell happened to this place? I think everyone is just a bit too damn spoiled--suburbia is almost like our Govt-sponsored adult theme park

car advertisements. the ad world's goal is to change habits through psychology. it changed the place. also, the car manufacturer's had enough money to skew politician's priorties away from public funding for transit to public funding for highways and bigger roads.

sad really. our nation hasn't benefited from being so isolated either. Any dimwit traveling to Europe sees the benefits of great public transportation that places such as Berlin, Munich, Madrid, Barcelona or Paris have.

alex1 Nov 21, 2006 5:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcu
You got a good point. I'm just not sure how it addresses my point. I totally agree that a good mass transit system is needed for a number of reasons. The CTA is ruining mass transit, not helping mass transit. They need to start taking some responsibility. The biggest impedement to more funding is the percieved corruption and incompetence of the CTA.

I don't necessarily think that the CTA got into its current situation through corruption or incompetance. There have been a few things that have really destroyed its finances which people don't really take into account: the federal government cutting all funding for paratransit and accounting for future pensions.

Ideally, you would replace Kreusi with a better communicator and you would start building a campaign that touts the benefits of better regional mass transit. Tough to do but not impossible. but yeah, any perception of incompetence needs to be overturned.

VivaLFuego Nov 21, 2006 4:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex1
Ideally, you would replace Kreusi with a better communicator and you would start building a campaign that touts the benefits of better regional mass transit. Tough to do but not impossible. but yeah, any perception of incompetence needs to be overturned.

I like what the new leadership at RTA is doing with the whole "Moving Beyond Congestion" campaign, i.e. actually proposing solutions and visions. We'll see how it plays out.

DaleAvella Nov 21, 2006 4:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex1
I don't necessarily think that the CTA got into its current situation through corruption or incompetance. There have been a few things that have really destroyed its finances which people don't really take into account: the federal government cutting all funding for paratransit and accounting for future pensions.

I don't disagree with you, but how is the Metra so great, in my opinion, compared to the CTA? Is it because of funding or competence?

brian_b Nov 21, 2006 4:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleAvella
I don't disagree with you, but how is the Metra so great, in my opinion, compared to the CTA? Is it because of funding or competence?

Metra doesn't have any busses to maintain.


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