^ The biggest question for me is whether they will pursue a distributed traction platform like the Alstom AGV which has motors down the length of the high speed train like an EMU or instead go with a traditional locomotive driven consist.

I'm also quite a bit interested in whether CHSR gets a bespoke product with exterior styling just for the state system or whether a trainset model with a recognizable standard design used in other places will be pursued. Personally I think a custom designed locomotive and striking livery unique to the CHSR would be exciting to see.

Obviously were likely to see the list start with Alstom, Siemens and Hitachi. I profoundly hope CRRC is not considered even if they did submit qualifications. Also will be interesting if other Japanese makers show any interest in submitting proposals considering the agreement they have made in Texas.

Six trainsets for a 171 mile initial operating segment?
Let's assume they run all 6 at once, even though they will not, that it will take an hour to travel that 171 miles with all the station stops, that will support 20 minute headways on the route. If you take one train out for maintenance, that would support 30 minute headways.
I expect a very competitive bidding process, anyone HSR manufacturer could win the bid.

I wasn't sure where to post this comment (I figured The Brightline Thread was for Florida... and who there wants to read about our California shit?), so I thought I'd post this here, even though it's not being funded by CAHSR.

I didn't realize that the proposed high speed train from SoCal to Vegas was gonna run mostly along the median of the 15 Freeway. Does that seem safe to you guys? I assume there'll be higher barriers to separate automobile traffic?

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...730c1667_b.jpg

https://www.brightlinewest.com/

^Everything will be safe or the feds wouldn't sign off on it. I don't know if the concrete barrier will be as low profile as what is depicted in that rendering. What is surprising to me is that the majority median running alignment Brightline is pursuing penciled out to be less expensive than the offset alignment featured in the DesertXpress EIS. When you figure in a hundreds mile long ribbon of required barrier like this it would seem that would represent a pretty substantial cost. I suppose the elimination of the tunnels made a significant dent in the capital cost, as well as the new alignment includes a good deal of single track (not a fan). I'm not entirely sure if the offset alignment would still be nearly all Caltrans land or if there was some private acquisitions involved with that, either way that's something that is avoided with the median running.

To get back to what your saying about safety though, yes it will be safe. It will be built so automobiles will not be able to enter the right-of-way and accidently or heaven forbid intentionally cause a catastrophe. I also expect, like all modern high speed corridors, there to be a lot of tech monitoring with cameras and sensors and also automated cab control to assure nothing causes a collision with objects or people. It will be visually and psychological impressive, or unnerving depending on your level of anxiety, to see these median running trains blow past cars doing 80 at such close proximity. Besides a handful of areas around the world where true-hsr runs briefly parallel to major highways, there really won't be anything like it.

The Green Line runs along the median of the 105. And a fair amount of BART runs along freeway medians in the Bay Area, so there's a good amount of precedent in the state for this approach. Perhaps high speed rail has different considerations though.

I'm surprised at your comparison of California HSR to the project to improve the rail corridor between Chicago and St. Louis. The federal government did not build a new high speed line between Chicago and St. Louis. It contributed to improvements to an existing rail line. I don't know what the extent of those improvements was--I assume mostly track and signaling improvements. It sounds like it was a great project with a great end benefit. But it wasn't building a high speed line from whole cloth. It seems like an apples to oranges comparison. I would argue that the federal government should be supporting both kinds of projects.

Brightline is saving BIG on grade separations. The I-15 freeway already has every road that it comes in contact with on bridge crossings or as an overpass already built in. Brightline has to build none of these, it's basically using what would be allotted for a future carpool lane, same with the Green Line and every other N. AMERICA median running train trying to build train on the cheap. DesertXpress was thinking like Europe, but our right of way planning is not set up for that and they would have been on the hook to build all new overpasses and crossing. Brightline is building this in the least expensive way possible.

Europe thinks differently about high speed/high capacity right of ways than we do. Most other HSR projects have their tracks parallel outside of the highway median because their mentality doesn't have them build highways past 3-4 lanes in each direction... Rarely will you see a 10 lane freeway in Europe... after 8 total lanes of congested roadway, their method for increasing traffic through an area is via rail expansion..., so rather than a road being the center of a right of way, they offset it to one side and they leave the other side for rail or other multi-use purposes. All we seem to think about and plan for in USA is ever expanding roads which is why a new interstate through a rural area will have 2 lanes in each direction and a few acres between the opposite driving lanes... all for future road growth.

Let’s say The USA and Eurasia have the same 14 spaces in a right of way... how it will be planned (diagram below). 7/8 are the center of the entire right of way. In Europe, 7/8 is planned for the end of the road and the beginning of other uses… In the USA 7/8 is planned to be the center of the road which in final widening stages becomes a carpool lane or high occupancy toll lane… oh…but I guess we can just throw a train in there if they make us.

USA
1. -----Wall-------------
2. |
3. <<<<
4. <<<<
5. <<<<
6. |
7. | Future Carpool
8. | Road Widen
9. |
10. >>>>
11. >>>>
12. >>>>
13. |
14. -----Wall--------------



Europe/Asia
1. -----Wall--------------
2. <<<<
3. <<<<
4. <<<<
5. |
6. >>>>
7. >>>>
8. >>>>
9. \\\\\\\\\\\\ TBD Misc
10. //////////// Poss. Rail widen
11. <==== Rail way
12. <===>
13. ====>
14. -----Wall----Train Station----


California is building a high speed rail system from scratch as it doesn't have this prior allotment along the CA-99 corridor or anywhere. The USA will always have this problem until these priorities shift in how we plan for and use the available space we have. As rail advocates, one thing to advocate for if there is a freeway widening, would be that the entire road goes to one side of the right of way... you can keep it a secret that the other side could be used for rail and just say you are pro road way widening... but in the "right way." haha...

This is the same exact argument I've made in the past for CAHSR using the 5 freeway's ROW. But apparently serving every podunk town in the Central Valley is more important than building a project in an economical and timely manner. The vast majority of work done on the CAHSR project so far has been building bridges and overpasses, rerouting and rebuilding roads, etc. Imagine if we only had to do a fraction of that work by using the 5's ROW? Not to mention much cheaper and easier land acquisition and probably fewer lawsuits, too. But no, we're building high speed rail stations literally in the middle of farms (this is the location of the planned Madera HSR station...kid you not...) in the name of *equity* for the central valley :rolleyes:

I really wish I'd never hear the term "equity" again, at least in context of transit planning, urban planning and public policy. It's just dumb. It's 99.9% pork-barrel, budget-busting crap.

I can see it now. You'd have a line finished sooner and for less money, but ultimately one not as good as what they are actually constructing. This is a once in a lifetime undertaking. You don't build the best state system by bypassing the entire middle of the state. Connecting routes would a) likely never get built and b) never make up for not having direct through service.

Do everyone a favor and please don't restart this debate in this thread.

You seem too intelligent to actually believe what you just wrote here.

Equity is a way to make sure infrastructure is built to benefit people living in the community. A lot times, they didn't have a voice and freeway were built through existing urban neighborhoods to provide a fast way for the rich and suburbanites to drive through. It's rare for a freeway to get built through a rich established neighborhoods.

That's what voters chose and the CV has 6.5 million people, which would make it top 20 in US population if it was a state. That example of the Madera station is basically how it would be on I-5 lol, but further away from population centers of the CV.
The lawsuits would have happened anyway because they were intended to derail the project.

Great point. Sometimes the lack of equity can be as, if not more, damaging. Something that I think we can all agree we are still trying to recover from. Yes, we are talking about you 980 and 101/280.

Stockton just did that recently with the 4 extension too.

Stockton actually has a pretty decent downtown with some cool historic buildings. It's unfortunate there's a freeway splitting it now. Hopefully they can revitalize it.

https://goo.gl/maps/HCqAkmxneGdvfLEh9
https://goo.gl/maps/z33dwoB6rWR8N5HEA
https://goo.gl/maps/rbapKmHC54jqgwqJA
https://goo.gl/maps/1rfnkwXJe5Di4RkVA
https://goo.gl/maps/AibD4ny77tkN1M45A
https://goo.gl/maps/vutgpcGskXRuCJN47
https://goo.gl/maps/G3KNQcnrqCU7SvKe9

I'm well aware of the Green Line (now C Line) on the 105 (the rail line was actually included in the final design of the 105 Freeway, as a concession to the communities that the freeway tore through)... Metrolink also goes down the middle of part of the 10 Freeway in the SGV:
https://www.sgvtribune.com/wp-conten...g?w=1024&h=683
SGV Tribune

And yeah, I've ridden BART from Walnut Creek to SF, and part of the line goes down the middle of CA-24.

And part of the Gold Line (now A Line) goes down the median of the 210 Freeway... and that's what brought up my concern. It hasn't happened in a while (knock on wood), but there have been several incidents of big rig trucks crashing onto the A Line tracks on the 210 Freeway.

https://thesource.metro.net/wp-conte...igrig92012.jpg
Metro

https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/d...z9o-snap-image
LA Times

https://www.pasadenastarnews.com/wp-...RGKB.jpg?w=620
Pasadena Star News

So far, there haven't been any truck into train crashes and no fatalities, but these have caused long delays on the Gold Line (clearing the wreck, inspecting the tracks, having to replace the overhead wires). There are plans to strenghthen and raise the barriers, but they haven't started construction yet. I don't know what it is about that stretch of the 210; as far as I know, there has been no such vehicle-onto-track incidents on the Green/C Line.

I haven't driven to Vegas in many years, but I remember a lot of big rig trucks going up/down the 15. I'm hoping they build really strong/high barriers for the high speed train.

And the Central Valley only keeps on growing.

Over the years I've read people on these boards make comments to the effect of Fresno and Bakersfield (or was it Fresno and Stockton?) being California's rust belt. I don't know why that would be, because all three of those cities since their incorporation have kept growing in population with each census. They have yet to shrink in population, census-wise. According to the 2020 Census, Fresno proper now has 542,107 people and is the 5th largest city in CA (over a million people in its metro area), and Bakersfield proper has 403,455 people and is the 9th largest city in CA. I think they deserve convenient access to HSR.

Indeed and it is the coastal parts of California that are either stagnant or losing population because of high housing costs.

https://www.cbsnews.com/losangeles/n...in%20the%20U.S.

My Thoughts: I think the first two sections they should have built were #1 the approach from LA Union Station, through Grapevine, then onto Bakersfield, then #2 going down from San Jose thru Gilroy, then tunneling roughly paralell to CA 152 thru the mountains then connecting to the existing San Jouanqin tracks. The existing San Juaquin ROW would be electrified. This would allow essentially two different services:

One would take advantage of the existing San Juaquin and allow local trains to run from SF/SJ thru Gilroy, the local thru the CV and into LA. The other would be the "express" fully High Speed Rail ROW running paralell to I-5. The idea is you get the best of both worlds where people needing to get between SF/SJ and LA can jet by on the express alignment while people in the central valley can now have their existing trains take them to SF and LA.

Excellent news for California's investment in modern, sustainable, and efficient transportation.

California wins big federal grant for high-speed rail. How much, and where will it be spent?

By Tim Sheehan
Fresno Bee
Sept. 25, 2023

"A federal grant of almost $202 million for California’s high-speed rail project, awarded Monday by the U.S. Department of Transportation, will help pay for the design and construction of six major structures to eliminate railroad crossings in the southern San Joaquin Valley.

The Consolidated Rail Infrastructure and Safety Improvements, or CRISI, award is the largest single grant from the pot of more than $1.4 billion announced Monday. The California High-Speed Rail Authority has its collective fingers crossed for getting much more than that to complete the work underway and to develop an initial operating line from Merced to Bakersfield. Those trains would travel through the Valley via Fresno at about 220 mph.

The CRISI grant will cover about 80% of the anticipated cost to design, purchase property and construction of six new structures intended to eliminate at-grade road crossings at existing BNSF Railway freight tracks and future high-speed rail tracks running through the city of Shafter, northwest of Bakersfield..."


https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local...#storylink=cpy

^ Good! It's about time the rest of America's tax payers started doing their part to get this thing finished. Tired of them just laughing at us for how much we're spending on this project.

Is this satire? I can't imagine this not being satire.

Wdym

There really should probably be a UK HSR thread, but since there apparently isn't I guess this is the most logical place to put this little depressing piece of news. The British PM is being excoriated by both parties and I have little doubt this will go down as one of the most shortsighted decisions in ages in the UK. He's promising other transportation projects with the money saved but just since those funds were "committed" to HS2 doesn't mean they can be trusted to redistribute them fully to worthwhile transport needs. He's even promising to take some of the HS2 money and spend them on motorways instead. I just hope when the next election comes and he loses as PM and Labour retakes power the full HS2 program will be recommitted to.

Now cue the idiotic low information American conservative press to run with this and present endless nonsensical parallels with CHSR.


Rishi Sunak Cancels a Rail Project to Build an Image
The British prime minister embraced a more divisive profile, casting himself as a disrupter and scrapping part of the High Speed 2 line that predecessors had championed.

Prime Minister Rishi Sunak of Britain, taking the stage at his first Conservative Party conference as leader on Wednesday, sought to cast himself as a change agent who would rebuild his economically depleted country.

But in one change that swiftly undercut his claim to be a builder, Mr. Sunak said he would pull the plug on a key part of an ambitious high-speed rail project that had been a cornerstone of his party’s promises to spread prosperity to the north of England.

The prime minister said the curtailment of part of the project, called HS2, was less a retreat than a redistribution of resources. He promised that the saved money would be used to better connect cities in England’s north with each other, rather than with London, pledging to build light-rail networks and tram systems, and to upgrade highways across the north.

“HS2 is the ultimate example of the old consensus,” Mr. Sunak said in his hourlong address to an audience of Conservative Party members, members of Parliament and activists. “The facts have changed, and the right thing to do when the facts change is to have the courage to change direction.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/04/w...l-project.html

More:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...manchester-leg

Sunak should go to prison for that.

You have to wonder if some interest in Birmingham has acted behind the scenes to keep this service to itself.

I seem to recall that some criticism of the plan was that at full build-out Birmingham would have to reduce its use of HS2 to accommodate the northern trains.

Not likely. The Tories have stated they intend to sell off the properties acquired for the HS2 right of way and use the proceeds to fund their other transportation priorities. Salting the proverbial earth. In a few years they'll complain the Labour government has failed to deliver transportation infrastructure. This is politics now.

Pure evil.

California High-Speed Rail proposes modification to L.A.-to-Anaheim segment

By Travis Schlepp
KTLA
Oct. 30, 2023

"The California High-Speed Rail Authority is making some changes to its planned segment from Los Angeles to Anaheim.

On Monday, CAHSR announced it now plans to add a fourth rail line between the two Southern California cities, allowing for commuter rail systems and freight trains to each have their own dedicated sets of tracks, rather than have to share and coordinate through the busy metropolitan section.

The changes are minor in concept, but are expected to have a meaningful impact once the commuter train service begins operation in the next decade or so..."

https://ktla.com/news/california/cal...aheim-segment/

This is a bit absurd. Driving might be quicker than this.

"A ride on the 33-mile Los Angeles-to-Anaheim segment is expected to take about 45 minutes. It’s a far cry from the “High-Speed” promise of the project, but the route is one of the most complicated and complex along the entire 800 miles of theoretical service area."

Anaheim is just a weird spur anyway since the main line to San Diego would go via Inland Empire/Perris Valley. Really the Anaheim branch is just a way for OC residents to avoid a long slow drive up to Union Station. Doesn't really bother me if the travel time is the same as driving...

With the planning for tunnels in the southern part of the county to replace the coastal rail line to San Diego, wouldn't it be advantageous to use that route and turn the IE route into the spur?

They could have designed where CA HSR runs above interstate 5 in Los Angeles. It would be quite interesting to see people's faces stuck in LA freeway traffic while an HSR zooms by.

So...I really wish that this article offered more specifics.

I had always thought that they were expanding the corridor to four tracks throughout, with two for combined HSR/commuter and two for freight (one through track and one for passing sidings/spurs), with HSR/commuter completely grade separated.

It's unclear what they actually mean by this modification. Will commuter rail be on its own single track but not be electrified?

Fresno has big hopes for high-speed rail to spur downtown renaissance. What’s the grand plan?

By Tim Sheehan
Fresno Bee
Oct. 24, 2023

"For more than a decade, city of Fresno leaders have pinned at least part of their hopes for revitalizing the beleaguered downtown and Chinatown districts on the development of a sparkling new jewel – a modern, bustling station for California’s high-speed rail system.

The California High-Speed Rail Authority’s Fresno station, currently in the design stages, will eventually be built on a site bounded by Fresno, H, Tulare and G streets, straddling the existing Union Pacific Railroad freight tracks and the future bullet-train line.

Planners with the rail agency foresee a contemporary multi-modal transportation hub with a sleek design, concourses with restaurants and retailers, a pedestrian bridge connecting downtown with Chinatown, and inviting public spaces. It will be developed in stages – first with the renovation of a historic train depot and construction of shaded plazas where people can watch new bullet trains go through testing, and later observe the construction of the larger passenger station that can expand as the rail system expands..."

https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local...#storylink=cpy

NANDERT the GREAT speaks about this topic in his last video about commuter rail in LA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLf3X4rNmYQ

AT the 19:40 minute mark.

Therein lies the problem.

High speed-rail construction begins on Highway 43 in Kings County
The California High-Speed Rail project is expected to be completed between 2030 and 2033.

By Kassandra Gutierrez
November 7, 2023
ABC30

"KINGS COUNTY, Calif. (KFSN) -- The California High-Speed Rail Authority is gearing up for another round of construction, this time in Kings County.

SkyView 30 shows traffic backed up along Highway 43 between Hanford and Corcoran in Kings County.

It's part of the high-speed rail authority's next round of construction.

Through Tuesday, there will be a flagging operation between Nevada and Lansing Avenues for both north and southbound traffic..."

https://abc30.com/high-speed-rail-co...20construction.

CHSRA, Hollywood Burbank Airport Reach Settlement Agreement

Written by Carolina Worrell
Railway Age
Nov. 17, 2023

"The California High-Speed Rail Authority (CHSRA) announced Nov. 16 that it has reached an agreement with the Burbank-Glendale Pasadena Airport Authority dismissing the Airport Authority’s lawsuit regarding the high-speed rail project and clearing the way for high-speed rail construction from Burbank to Los Angeles Union Station.

According to CHSRA, the settlement “commits the High-Speed Rail Authority and the Airport Authority to a collaborative process during advanced design, construction, and operation of the high-speed rail station adjacent to the airport to ensure compatibility with the replacement passenger terminal and other airport facilities.”

“This settlement reflects the hard work of two public agencies striving to provide the public with new, state-of-the-art transportation facilities and services that meet the demands of travelers—a new airport terminal connected to clean, fast and safe high-speed rail,” said CHSRA CEO Brian Kelly. “This agreement further reflects our organizations’ understanding that the best way to deliver these services is through collaboration..."

https://www.railwayage.com/passenger...ent-agreement/

I wonder about the ridership at the Burbank Airport HSR station. I mean, I always fly in and out of Burbank because it is convenient and close by, but it's not a terribly busy node overall. The existing Metrolink station to the north of the airport, which is IIRC where the HSR station will be, is too far from the terminals to be useful (the existing Metrolink station to the south of the airport is, however, within walking distance of the gates).

Hollywood Burbank is about to get a complete rebuild of its terminals and is going to incorporate HSR into the design.

High speed systems typically need a station like this in order to cue trains into a major terminal station and, in this example, outbound into what will be one of the longer HSR tunnels on the planet. For example, the Old Oak Common station will be used in England to cue trains in/out of London. In San Francisco, 4th/King will be used to cue trains in/out of Transbay.

Both this station and the San Francisco approach will work with cuing commuter rail in addition to HSR. It will also add almost no time to the overall run because trains won't be traveling fast between Burbank and LA Union Station. This means even if the train stops for the same amount of time as an intermediate station in the Central Valley, the overall dwell time is less because the acceleration/deceleration takes less time.

For those that haven't seen them or had them algorithm fed to you, there's a relatively new YouTube video author that has made some pretty excellent CHSR content. Even for myself who feels they follow the project pretty closely I learned a few things. Very technical but thorough and easy to follow. Highly recommended viewing. No I'm not the person.


• Video Link

• Video Link

• Video Link

• Video Link


Plus a few more on his Youtube uploads page.

Do we think this $3 billion will allow CAHSR to fully complete the Merced to Bakersfield section?

I imagine that if the $3 billion grant (plus private activity bonds and I'm sure other low interest or subsidized public loans) allow for Brightline West to get built, there will be pressure on CAHSR to focus on the Bakersfield to Los Angeles segment next, rather than the Merced to San Jose section. At that point, the Bakersfield to LA section would effectively bring two high speed rail lines into Los Angeles.

Isn't he just talking about the $3B award to the Brightline train to Las Vegas?

^^^ The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law is awarding $3B to CHSR and $3B to Brightline West. I would have preferred for CHSR to receive about three times as much as Brightline considering the scope and budget of the project, but it will obviously take what it can get. I fully expect another large sum in a dedicated allotment to CHSR before Biden's first term is up.

Ah, got it. That's good news. Agreed that I'd rather the entire sum go to the public transit project rather than the private, for-profit one. But I'm happy overall with the funding.

^ More on that here:

https://cal.streetsblog.org/2023/12/...egas-to-la-hsr