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Pedestrian Mar 30, 2021 2:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homebucket (Post 9232970)

Yeah I know. But when they are draining the vial and that last dose is almost enough . . . REAL close . . . the human temptation is to call it enough and shoot it into the arm. It's human nature. NBC News's reporters can say what they want--they haven't been there.

I have also read reports of people taking those last bits--the ones they can't possibly call a full dose--from multiple vials and combining them into one or more full doses. This is officially verboten. But again . . . human nature.

Basically, the manufacturers put more than 5 full doses in the vials for a reason: So all the doses given are unquestionably full doses. When you try to stretch it to more, there's room for lots of error. But there's a difference between stretching what is intended to be a 5-dose vial into more than 5 doses which I call risky and simply having the manufacturer fill the vials with more than 5 doses which I believe they may have begun doing in some cases because of a shortage of vials or other material, or simply because they have enough vaccine to do it and putting more in each vial speeds up the process (filling vials takes time--it saves time to put more in each vial).

homebucket Mar 30, 2021 2:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9232977)
I have also read reports of people taking those last bits--the ones they can't possibly call a full dose--from multiple vials and combining them into one or more full doses. This is officially verboten. But again . . . human nature.

I haven't heard of anyone doing this. I manage several mass vaccination sites and if anyone was caught doing this there would be some serious consequences. Anything less than exactly 0.3 mL must be discarded.

Quote:

... never combine or “pool” vaccine from multiple vials. Although no one wants to waste vaccine, it is crucial for infection control and patient safety to administer vaccine properly. Combining vaccine from multiple vials can result in cross-contamination, potentially causing serious bacterial infection in patients.
Remember, once it's been reconstituted, the concentration of the vaccine in the vial is the same, regardless of whether it is the first dose drawn, or the fifth, or the seventh. The part about the FDA only allowing a max of 6 doses per vial is actually outdated. They've gone back and forth on this a few times, but the current guidance is that if possible, a 7th dose may be drawn. As long as all the doses drawn from the vial contain 0.3 mL of vaccine, it's totally acceptable. All our drawing nurses are thoroughly vetted by licensed pharmacists and even then we have a double check system in place, after preparation, to make sure each syringe contains exactly 0.3 mL.

Quote:

After dilution, the multidose vial will contain at least five 0.3 mL doses. The amount of any excess vaccine left in the vial can vary based on provider technique and ancillary supplies. There may be excess vaccine in the vial after withdrawal of 5 doses equal to 2 additional doses. Per FDA authorization, a maximum of 6 doses per multidose vial can be administered. If the excess volume in the vial is less than 0.3 mL, it must be discarded.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-1...Tech-faqs.html

homebucket Mar 30, 2021 2:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9232971)

The rate must be going up elsewhere in CA, or in non-hospital systems like retail pharmacies, because we've been seeing the rates go down here in the Bay Area due to insufficient inventory.

SIGSEGV Mar 30, 2021 2:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9232588)
That's an odd graphic. Quite different from the one Bloomberg is showing which is more consistent with my experience. That is, I didn't have too much trouble getting my first shot back in January and my second in February in Arizona (and yes, the appointments were ultimately all taken--I don't detect much hesitancy, at least among the older crowd).

https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/ser...049142/enhance
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/c...-distribution/

This graphic, current as of this morning, indicates Arizona with 23.4% "population coverage" and California at 22.8% (Texas, by the way, is 19.6%. Illinois 23.3%). A bit of explanation may be warranted: "“Population covered” divides the doses administered for each vaccine type by the number of doses required for full vaccination."

Yeah the difference is that some states (Illinois, for example) were pretty slow early on but are doing pretty well now, so there is a big relative disparity between percentage with 1st shot and percentage with 2nd shot.

homebucket Mar 30, 2021 3:31 AM

This has also been my experience. We are fully equipped to vaccinate way more than we have been. We've got the staffing and the facilities, but we've had to limit the number of appointments and cancel numerous shifts due to insufficient inventory.

Quote:

Bay Area counties gear up for COVID-19 vaccine eligibility expansion

The day is approaching: come April 1st the entire state will open vaccine eligibility to those 50 and older.

"It is going to be a huge rush. It just is because people have been waiting for this," said UCSF Infectious Disease Specialist and Professor of Medicine, Dr. Monica Gandhi.

Dr. Gandhi says counties need to equip their vaccine teams now and gear up for the upcoming two weeks and expand hours. She is hopeful more vaccine will be available.

"Some of our supply problems which actually were because of the lipid what's called nano particle that had to go around the mRNA vaccine that was making things slow. And then we knew that in February they increased supply of that so it actually makes sense that we're going to have the supply," said Dr. Gandhi.

But counties like Santa Clara say they are concerned the bottle neck will continue to be not having enough vaccine.

"We've had scarcity of vaccine and that continues," said Dr. Marty Fenstershieb, Santa Clara County's COVID-19 testing and vaccine officer.

Santa Clara is projected to receive 58,000 doses of the COVID vaccine on Monday. A number that is not even close to the number of people who will qualify come Thursday.

"The number of people in our county between 50 and 64 where we are now is 400,000 people. That's a lot of people to add to our list," said Dr. Fenstershieb.
https://abc7news.com/bay-area-vaccin...d-19/10456632/

Pedestrian Mar 30, 2021 5:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homebucket (Post 9233009)
I haven't heard of anyone doing this. I manage several mass vaccination sites and if anyone was caught doing this there would be some serious consequences. Anything less than exactly 0.3 mL must be discarded.

It’s not something you’d hear about. It’s not something anyone would know about except the person filling the syringe and they’d convince themself they are doing the right thing. And it probably takes a person with as little faith in my fellow man (or woman) as me to think about the fact this is a human process, not one being done by flawless robots.



Quote:

Remember, once it's been reconstituted, the concentration of the vaccine in the vial is the same, regardless of whether it is the first dose drawn, or the fifth, or the seventh. The part about the FDA only allowing a max of 6 doses per vial is actually outdated. They've gone back and forth on this a few times, but the current guidance is that if possible, a 7th dose may be drawn. As long as all the doses drawn from the vial contain 0.3 mL of vaccine, it's totally acceptable. All our drawing nurses are thoroughly vetted by licensed pharmacists and even then we have a double check system in place, after preparation, to make sure each syringe contains exactly 0.3 mL.
I agree: As long as all the doses drawn have EXACTLY the specified amount it’s all good. But this is a human process, not a machine. EXACT is not the right word. But I hope when they are drawing the last dose from the vial, if there’s only .28 mL there, someone doesn’t decide “good enough”. The alternative, of course, is to dispose of that “almost enough” dose. And the fact is, .28 mL probably would work as well as .30. Probably. I just don’t want it in my arm.

You clearly have more faith in humanity than I do.

Pedestrian Mar 30, 2021 5:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homebucket (Post 9233041)
This has also been my experience. We are fully equipped to vaccinate way more than we have been. We've got the staffing and the facilities, but we've had to limit the number of appointments and cancel numerous shifts due to insufficient inventory.

Biden says by the end of April that’ll be solved. There’s not supposed to be politics here so I’ll just lay that out here without equivocation. That’s what they are saying—plenty of vaccine by May. That’s why they say everybody should be eligible then. We’ll see. If you know of appointments going unfilled in the Bay Area then or now, I’d love to hear about it.

10023 Mar 30, 2021 8:29 PM

My friend just had to postpone his wedding in Italy (where he’s from) to 2022. It was meant to be in July. I feel so bad for them.

The debts owed to the young by the old after this...

Pedestrian Mar 30, 2021 8:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 9233789)
My friend just had to postpone his wedding in Italy (where he’s from) to 2022. It was meant to be in July. I feel so bad for them.

The debts owed to the young by the old after this...

Sorry, but nobody owes you sh*t. Some people love and will miss their grandparents and parents. You clearly are not among them. Your friend and his intended can get married. They just can't make a grand show of it. Not the same as dying.

Pedestrian Mar 30, 2021 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9233117)
Biden says by the end of April that’ll be solved. There’s not supposed to be politics here so I’ll just lay that out here without equivocation. That’s what they are saying—plenty of vaccine by May. That’s why they say everybody should be eligible then. We’ll see. If you know of appointments going unfilled in the Bay Area then or now, I’d love to hear about it.

https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/ser...144266/enhance
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/c...-distribution/

Note that neither Astrazeneca nor Novavax are shown. If either of them gets their act together and gets approval, as they are claiming they will, we will indeed have plenty of vaccine. The over-18 population of the US is 209 million or just under 75% of the total population. Without the two mentioned we should still hit enough doses for the adult population by mid-May.

jtown,man Mar 31, 2021 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9233922)
https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/ser...144266/enhance
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/c...-distribution/

Note that neither Astrazeneca nor Novavax are shown. If either of them gets their act together and gets approval, as they are claiming they will, we will indeed have plenty of vaccine. The over-18 population of the US is 209 million or just under 75% of the total population. Without the two mentioned we should still hit enough doses for the adult population by mid-May.

Do these people realize we have a sizable population that isn't getting the vaccine?

In literally 3 months (shorter in some areas), our main issue is going to be getting more people vaccinated, shortages will be a thing of the past.

Pedestrian Mar 31, 2021 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtown,man (Post 9233987)
Do these people realize we have a sizable population that isn't getting the vaccine?

In literally 3 months (shorter in some areas), our main issue is going to be getting more people vaccinated, shortages will be a thing of the past.

I'm not sure who "these people" are. The chart shows doses available, not necessarily people willing to take them. But, yes, everyone concerned with the vaccination program is aware of "vaccination hesitancy". I believe, and I'm not alone, that as more and more people get the shot and there are no media reports of serious adverse reactions, "hesitancy" may largely give way to laziness and inertia. More people won't get it because they are too lazy to take the trouble than because they fear side effects or some nefariousness behind it all.

That's why I'd like to see more use of "vaccine passports" for assorted uses like entrance into activities like concerts, sports events and so on (New York is talking about this) and I wish a lot of businesses would either require or, at least, incentivize employees to get vaccinated once all ages are eligible.

the urban politician Mar 31, 2021 2:10 AM

“Vaccine passports” are good ideas in theory but subject to abuse and fraud.

Imagine some grumpy guy working Customs in a foreign country not approving your “vaccine passport” because...well...he’s a prick (they’re everywhere, you know this), and he decided that it doesn’t “look right”

Furthermore, imagine stolen or forged vaccine passports. I think it’s logistically a bad idea

Pedestrian Mar 31, 2021 2:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 9234062)
“Vaccine passports” are good ideas in theory but subject to abuse and fraud.

Imagine some grumpy guy working Customs in a foreign country not approving your “vaccine passport” because...well...he’s a prick (they’re everywhere, you know this), and he decided that it doesn’t “look right”

Furthermore, imagine stolen or forged vaccine passports. I think it’s logistically a bad idea

It's nothing new. When I first began foreign travel in order to get a visa for a number of countries proof of vaccination for certain diseases were required and documented on these booklets:

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/A4P2E3/int...ent-A4P2E3.jpg
https://www.google.com/search?q=inte...9jziszm9X-Vz1M

But I wasn't actually referring to travel documents. I was referring to domestic uses such as the kind of thing I mentioned: entering indoor sports and entertainment halls and arenas for example; even possibly bars or other smaller scale venues. They are doing it in Europe and doing it electronically with a smart phone app that can be scanned electronically.

SlidellWx Mar 31, 2021 3:41 AM

18.5% of metro New Orleans has been fully vaccinated as of Monday. https://ldh.la.gov/covidvaccine/

Pedestrian Mar 31, 2021 5:29 AM

Quote:

In 'ghost town' San Francisco, explorer discovers signs of life
Carl Nolte
Feb. 20, 2021
Updated: Feb. 20, 2021 10:05 a.m.

I have to agree with what Mark Twain supposedly said on hearing of his own obituary: “Reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated.” You could say the same about San Francisco.

So I headed from my humble home office down the hill to Mission Street. I stopped at Dianda’s Bakery near 25th Street to get a hot cross bun full of currants, raisins and tradition. They are a somewhat overlooked seasonal treat, baked only during Lent.

I dodged around the COVID vaccine station at 24th Street to get on a BART train headed downtown. It was only the second time in a year I’d ridden BART. There were only a handful of other passengers. We eyed each other warily, masked riders in the subway. I got off at Montgomery. The station was gleaming. No wonder, because it was empty. Up the long escalator to Market and Montgomery streets. I’m a city boy, so tall buildings still impress me. I noticed that the Starbucks at 44 Montgomery had a big sign: OPEN. Though it was nearly lunchtime, the place was empty except for a single barista. Downtown is a ghost town. Everybody knows that.

I headed up to Sam’s Grill on Bush Street, one of the oldest restaurants in the West. I gave the petrale sole a vote of confidence, as the late columnist Stanton Delaplane used to say, long ago, when a business lunch was a San Francisco ritual.

Sam’s is on Belden Place, where outdoor restaurants managed to get through some of the more draconian health regulations. The restaurants weren’t crowded, but they weren’t empty. Peter Quartaroli, the managing partner, thinks established places like Sam’s will survive the disaster that the pandemic has brought to the restaurant industry. And he’s optimistic about the city’s future, despite the reports of an urban exodus. “I think it will shake out,” he said. “The people who will be here will be the ones who want to live here,” he said.

I headed up to Old St. Mary’s Church at Grant Avenue and California Street. The church, built in 1854 on a foundation of granite imported from China, was one of the tallest buildings in California. The parish church is reportedly in financial trouble because of the pandemic — a symbol, it is said, of the virus on the very core of the city. It was locked up tight when I went by, but there are services every day, a symbol of the enduring nature of faith in the city.

These are the last days of the new year celebration, and this weekend would have seen the great Chinese New Year Parade winding sinuously from Downtown through Chinatown. Instead the parade became virtual.

Chinatown has suffered, too. Business is off, and times are tough. But a walk down Stockton Street shows the vitality of the community. It is quieter this season and Chinatown is not what it was, but it’s still there. Open-air markets selling fresh fruit and vegetables look busy, and there are all kinds of street life. This is the Year of the Ox, and ox pictures in red and gold are everywhere.

I ducked down Ross Alley, the oldest of San Francisco’s hundreds of alleyways, past the Golden Gate Fortune Cookies Co., past the Sweetheart Cafe. Arnold Genthe took pictures in Ross Alley in the 19th century when it was called the Street of Gamblers, and a scene from an Indiana Jones movie was filmed in Ross Alley. I don’t think there is any other city in the West that has a place like this.

I headed up Grant and cut into Kerouac Alley, which leads from Chinatown to North Beach, two worlds in a single little street, not a block long. It is an alley lined with poetry and murals, some of them new.

Then up Columbus Avenue, past the City Lights Bookstore, past the Molinari Delicatessen, to Green Street. The block between Columbus and Grant has been transformed by the virus, and in a surprising way. When the city’s restaurants were shut down more than a year ago and outside dining was permitted, Green Street exploded with nearly a dozen sidewalk restaurants, most of them elaborate.

There was nothing quite like it in San Francisco only a year ago. Now Valencia Street, Divisadero Street and Hayes Valley are full of restaurants built on parklets. But Green Street is the original and champion.

I sat there for a while in the warm afternoon sun of the last days of winter, in front of Gino & Carlo, a bar and sometime restaurant, sipping a glass of wine, thinking of techies who bailed out to Austin only to be caught in a Texas snowstorm.

As the afternoon wore on, it became a sort of street party; people kept dropping by. It seemed as if everybody knew everybody else.

“You know it reminds me of something I saw in Italy,” said Marco Rossi, whose family has owned Gino & Carlo for years. “About 4 in the afternoon, people stop what they were doing and they come by restaurants, and they have some food and they drink and talk. I think they call that ‘passegato,’ or something like that.” He could have meant “guardare il passaggio,” which means “to promenade.” Or maybe not. We took a sip of wine.

How’s business, I asked. “Good,” he said. “Gino & Carlo’s customers are loyal. And thirsty. God bless them.”

So maybe Mark Twain was right. The obituary is premature.
https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/...photo-20630554

glowrock Mar 31, 2021 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 9233789)
My friend just had to postpone his wedding in Italy (where he’s from) to 2022. It was meant to be in July. I feel so bad for them.

The debts owed to the young by the old after this...

Pobrecito! My heart aches for them. God forbid someone must put off something for a time because of a worldwide pandemic. :rolleyes:

Nothing says your friend can't be officially married tomorrow and then have the massive, elaborate, probably very expensive celebration in 2022.

Aaron (Glowrock)

10023 Mar 31, 2021 1:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glowrock (Post 9234226)
Pobrecito! My heart aches for them. God forbid someone must put off something for a time because of a worldwide pandemic. :rolleyes:

Nothing says your friend can't be officially married tomorrow and then have the massive, elaborate, probably very expensive celebration in 2022.

Aaron (Glowrock)

“Worldwide pandemic” that only seems to afflict the very old in certain places.

I don’t think you guys understand the level of personal irresponsibility amongst the gray haired crowd in the U.K. throughout this, which I imagine was much the same in Europe. In the US it seems that older people have generally avoid riskier situations out of caution, which is a good thing. In Britain they were the first people back to the pub, and the most likely to have illegal dinner parties and things during lockdown. There were older partners at my firm who got Covid during the first “stay at home” order last spring because they had the whole family around for Sunday lunch.

Some sense of self-preservation on their part, coupled with looser rules for younger people could have built more immunity (it doesn’t really matter whether some magic threshold for “herd immunity” was achieved), could have avoided these repeated lockdowns and another lost summer.

jtown,man Mar 31, 2021 1:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9234003)
I'm not sure who "these people" are. The chart shows doses available, not necessarily people willing to take them. But, yes, everyone concerned with the vaccination program is aware of "vaccination hesitancy". I believe, and I'm not alone, that as more and more people get the shot and there are no media reports of serious adverse reactions, "hesitancy" may largely give way to laziness and inertia. More people won't get it because they are too lazy to take the trouble than because they fear side effects or some nefariousness behind it all.

That's why I'd like to see more use of "vaccine passports" for assorted uses like entrance into activities like concerts, sports events and so on (New York is talking about this) and I wish a lot of businesses would either require or, at least, incentivize employees to get vaccinated once all ages are eligible.


These people= government officials who think they will get 100% of people vaccinated.

SIGSEGV Mar 31, 2021 3:16 PM

Biden should send $500 checks to everyone who gets the vaccine. That should help with vaccination rates and probably more than pays for itself.


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