Nah, workers who want to sit and do nothing are easy to replace, or face a major pay cut at the least. American workers are not as special as you want to think. Add value through your work and commitment, not by trying to have an easy life.

Too many Americans just want to be lazy and have it easy. It’s time for a reckoning.

Totally agree. However much some people may enjoy it, WFH is bad for cities.

American productivity is pretty similar to other developed countries. The U.S. is literally smack dab in the middle of productivity when it comes to OECD-tracked nations.

Now, different countries have different work systems. In Germany the norm is to not put in a lot of hours at the office, but work very hard while you're there (and not take work home with you). In Japan the norm is to work long hours in order to impress the boss, but get very little done. But even these two startlingly different ways of doing office work lead to comparable productivity (in $$$ generated per hour) - and the bottom line is generally what's important for businesses.

In general, I would concur though that white-collar workers actually work much less than blue collar workers. There have actually been studies that suggest the eight-hour day does not work for office work - that a six hour day would be better. Essentially it has been found that on average, productivity in the office drops to zero after six hours, regardless of how much time people are at the "office" and how much overtime they do. While there are of course outliers, I don't think the average person is capable of dealing with constant heavy workloads of intellectually taxing work for the entire time they are in the office. Not to mention of course how much time is wasted on useless meetings in the average office environment.

Nailed it; his salt level is high, and he's bound to put you on ignore :(. Businesses can save money and increase worker happiness, which means productivity will also increase. Or "let the market decide", which is now dominated by those looking for work/looking for better benefits.

I work way more in a work from home situation than when I go to the office. That's one of the reasons I hate WFH so much. It's too easy for the boundaries between work and home to get blurred... at least for me. I like the psychological break between being at work and being at home. I see why people who have more rigid 9-to-5 schedules might like it better, though.

You could immediately tell when covid started how work hours had basically extended. Pretty much everyone in my group was green for "active" on Microsoft Teams well into the night, whereas before you'd usually see a bunch of yellows from the senior vps/partners as they left for their commute home, and then maybe an hour of green later as they checked emails before bed.

Personally though I found WFH terrible and unproductive, but 90% of this is because my kids were also doing school from home, and - despite my wife saying she'd split covering my son's school time equally with me - I ended up doing the lion's share of online schooling with him due to her having a more busy meeting schedule.

Employee, working on the ground but with several colleagues remote. It doesn’t work. As time goes by, they get more and more alienated from company’s culture.

Precisely. Many people start to get paranoid, recluse, get bitter against their companies, believe remote work is a fundamental right instead of being graciously allowed by their company.

Thank God that nightmare is near the end.

I imagine some people enjoy. There is this recent trend in western societies to self glorify introverts. Not wrong of being an introvert, I’m more close to it than to extroverts, but I don’t think it’s something you should cherish, specially in our extremely individualistic and self serving culture.

You add remote working on that mix, boom, you have a dystopia.

Some businesses are not happy about WFH but others are and more and more of them are allowing for remote workers. It's inevitable. I am currently in the job market and have pretty much stopped looking for work here in Houston and instead at remote positions in other cities because the economy here is not good. Thank goodness for remote work because I would be SOL.

I need a laptop and an internet connection to work. (and the ability to fly anywhere in the country on a moment's notice). I don't need to go into an office for that. And the 19 years I spent dragging myself into an office didn't make me any better for having suffered through it. 17 years office-free and never looking back. More productive and better paid, too.

I don't think it's being an introvert. I think it's hating the commute and being able to set your own schedule (want to set your work hours at midnight to 8 AM . . .fine if you're at home).

I haven't seen evidence of that (more and more). What I see is companies that possibly thought they would let a lot of people work at home and save money leasing real estate having second thoughts. For one thing, a lot of the real estate is going unleased (because so many companies had the same idea) and while individual workers may be quite productive at home, the synergy of people working together and exchanging ideas isn't there.

I was just handed a memo from my boss at work. It's now official; we're following new Los Angeles County Health Department Guidelines, effective today, at my company's office:

1) Face coverings outdoors - No longer needed regardless of vaccination status.

2) Face coverings indoors - Fully vaccinated employees no longer need to wear face coverings indoors; however, partially vaccinated or non-vaccinated individuals must wear face coverings at all times except when in a closed office.

3) Face coverings inside a company vehicle - Fully vaccinated employees no longer need to wear face coverings in a company vehicle but partially vaccinated or non-vaccinated individuals must wear face coverings at all times.

4) Social distancing is no longer in effect (indoor or outdoor).

5) Lunch rooms - There are no longer restrictions on the number of employees allowed in lunch rooms.

Employees who are not fully vaccinated, or who do not furnish us a COVID-19 vaccination card, will be required to wear face coverings.

Good. There are a few Trumpers here who refuse to get vaccinated.

Doesn't look "in the middle" to me. Looks well above average:

https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/ser...055077/enhance
https://data.oecd.org/lprdty/labour-...ndicator-chart

So here's what I want to know. Let's say somebody who isn't vaccinated lies about it, doesn't wear a mask and otherwise behaves as if they were vaccinated. And let's say somebody else in the office gets covid.

Do they have grounds to sue the person who lied? The company? Will the company fire the liar? Are they requiring any proof (and does that change their possible liability)?

At my company, we've all been asked to submit copies of our vaccination cards to put in our medical files. Many have complied. Some still haven't submitted their cards, and I know of 2 people who have outright refused to get vaccinated.

I think it's a question of lack of control. Bosses have the perception that their cracking of the whip or.patting of the back or glowering or cracking inappropriate jokes or whatever it is they were doing is what was driving productivity previously when it probably wasn't. It doesn't make their jobs as important if the work happens largely on its own. So they create a story in their heads that everyone at home is slacking because they don't have a boss looking over their shoulder. At least this is what I think has been happening at my workplace.

As I said, I'm job hunting. Half the jobs I encounter are remote and yes, companies are turning to remote work to open up talent pool, save on rent and given to demand. More stodgy traditional companies (like my wife's) are opposed to WFH and brought everyone back in the office last summer. A lot of newer companies with younger workers are shifting to WFH.

Well, Facebook did just announce last week they are letting folks work remotely long-term if they want.

I do think there are several jobs that require people to be in the "office" around their colleagues. But.... I also think the definition of "office" may change in the future too. Maybe companies give their employees WeWork access memberships to come in and collaborate at a location of their choosing only when they need.

Or maybe some people will want that anchored company office and come in five days a way.

Or maybe some people will do a "hub and spoke" model where they use office locations spread across the world as a means to be a digital nomad.

The point is people have so many choices now, and there isn't a binary choice anymore between going in five days a week (with the occasional WFH day) and people who are freelancers that work remotely indefinitely. It's a whole new world that ultimately I think benefits everyone in a net positive.

I do see some people coming back to the office, but not all, and certainly not everyone is going to come back five days a week. As I have said before, it will be interesting to see how this all shakes out over the coming weeks/months/years. It's so awesome to have these choices though.

how did i get a double post lol

Where I work we will be returning to the office eventually but the remote policy is going to be much more generous than pre covid. Pre covid was 2 days a week remote, post will be more time remote than in the office. I love remote!

This is really the main negative of WFH. It works fine when you can still send the kids somewhere for the day, and probably better yet if you and your partner aren’t both working from home in an apartment at the same time.

But to those that say people will miss the human interaction - there are places outside of home I can work from and have human interaction that I vastly prefer to my latest office. Part of that comes down to my latest firm’s culture being absolutely terrible, of course.

And no nightclubs, no bars, no restaurants? Like living in a prison, except you have to pay the bills.

They announced that some time ago and since then Google and Apple have pushed in the other direction. You know . . . those stodgy old companies.

Was in the Arts District last Sunday (two days before the official statewide reopening), and it was absolutely hopping. Tons of people (and a diverse crowd to boot) dining, visiting the Hauser Wirth, shopping, and snapping photos for Instagram. I had never seen the AD that vibrant before, but then again I hadn’t gone there in ages.

Why is the border still closed between America and Canada?

I just heard the closure was extended another 30 days out.

Because it's still April 2020 in Ontario.

I saw Trudeau traveled overseas, didn't wear a mask and wasn't social distancing at the G7.

He's got cool hair though! :D

https://images.latintimes.com/sites/...nd-trudeau.jpg
latintimes

https://smartcdn.prod.postmedia.digi...trip=all&w=375
vancouversun

The messaging is confusing!

Just took a bike ride from Old Park back to the West Loop.... The city is sooo alive..... Summer in Chicago is amazing!

I love the city life in Los Angeles since the 2020 forced people outside. We had a weird ordinance in Los Angeles county that kept restaurants from having outdoor seating if they couldn’t provide an enclosed barrier or partitioned patio.

That ordinance was temporarily thrown out and restaurants have taken over the streets and sidewalks. Santa Monica and Culver City’s main st are both examples of this drastic shift. Contrary to the outside perception of the city, Los Angeles’ restaurants and bars are quite indoor dominant where activity and ambiance is made for the inside. There were always restaurants with outdoor seating but it was always an afterthought to the indoor experience and it was always in a partitioned area usually in the back or something… not street facing.

Now restaurants have outfitted their new sidewalk/street table experience with outdoor music and beautiful lighting for all to see and enjoy while strolling. It has created the most lively atmosphere I’ve EVER seen here and the implications are enormous for reinventing city life and shifting the conversation around public spaces and roadway multi use applications. I think it was the best thing to happen for local restaurants in the long term and for many new restaurants to flourish by using less leased interior spaces for seating.

Also, 2020 had redundant Starbucks’ to close down. So happy about that. They had a Starbucks on every corner here. It was annoyingly hogging up all the corner real estate and blocking local restaurants and coffee shops. Why did we need a Starbucks at Hollywood/Vine and another one at Sunset/Vine 2 blocks away, then more at Santa Monica/Vine and Melrose/Vine? Much too much. I was elated when Sunset/Vine closed.

Went to Chicago yesterday. Downtown and Navy Pier were absolutely bustling, crowded. Pretty much felt like prepandemic times.

We would have stayed till evening but out 9 year old wasn’t feeling well so we had to head home early.

I was in Boystown last night and there were girls twerking on top of cars with lines out of every. single. bar......

This pandemic is officially over lol.

It would be anti-science for him to wear a mask outside, since he's vaccinated, right? We don't want him to virtue signal our President, and he's just following the science like Newsom did at the French Laundry.

Moved

^ A US President has to dress boldly, has to convey power. Dark suits always do that best.

Bold tie colors (deep red, solid blue, etc) also achieve that effect.

Trudeau dresses like a weakling, which fits because Canada is kinda a weak afterthought

(....just poking fun...)

^^I copied your post too to the Biden thread.

Basically fashion. People will still wear masks because...most people are still wearing masks. People will dress as those around them dress. Generally speaking most people do not want to "stand out" and be judged/looked at. If most others were not wearing masks, those same vaccinated people would probably gladly shed the masks. Thats why it will be a gradual process. I have noticed that here while grocery shopping. It has gone from 0% unmasked to maybe 1-3% the next week to maybe 5% the next week to almost 10% this week. Once it becomes more socially acceptable the masks will start to come off more quickly.

Maybe about 5% of people around here are still wearing masks. Even a lot of store/ restaurant employees have since stopped wearing them. Couldn't imagine having to wear one out of peer pressure as is the case in SF it appears.

I will likely continue to wear one indoors in stores as long as it doesn’t get me too many wierd stares and in some places like transit in winter (flu season) forever. Covid isn’t the only disease transmitted by respiratory droplets and I don’t want flu or colds or whatever either, and I just am not that bothered by wearing a mask for a few minutes.

Also, this city is majority minority. We have a large historic Asian community and as long as I’ve lived here I’ve seen mostly Japanese women wearing masks in public (but also some men). It’s just part of the city’s cultural diversity that I think has now shown its value (having obliterated flu last winter).

I had hoped that if anything good came out of covid, it would have been the American normalizing of mask-wearing during cold and flu season, the way people have done for decades in Asia.

However, I wonder if all this incessant bitching about other people wearing their masks on their faces somehow causing you some grievous psychic injury will torpedo that. Or, if our resident forumers inclined to wring their hands about what other people are wearing might get so inflamed that they snatch a mask off the face of someone wearing one on public transit this December -- if so, I hope they get a wet, chunky sneeze, heavy-laden with the germs of one hell of a nasty cold, direct to their own personal face as payment in kind.

I mean seriously... Jesus H. You people sound like teen girls in a cafeteria: "Did you see what she was wearing? Like OMG! She was wearing it! She wore it -- right out in public!"

Mask-wearing has always been something that people do in Asia when they feel that they themselves might be sick. It’s not a prophylactic measure that people just do throughout flu season, or an attempt to keep oneself from getting sick (at least it isn’t effective at doing so). Americans are more likely to just take a sick day, whereas the Japanese especially feel compelled to go to work anyway.

I hate wearing masks. I hate what they do to interpersonal interactions. East Asian societies are generally cold, distant and impersonal anyway, so I guess it works for them. It is not compatible with American friendliness and desire to engage with strangers.

It will be interesting to see what happens in Europe. The Brits are a pretty cloistered people anyway, so maybe some of them (particularly the wrinkly old ladies) will keep wearing masks. There’s no way the Spanish or Italians will, god bless them.

Increasingly, people in places like SF aren’t very open minded people. It’s all about mindless group think

I’m glad I don’t subscribe to that. Rationality and science matters more to me

What is the "rationality and science" that suggests wearing masks, even indefinitely, is harmful to human health?

Also, what is the "mindless group think" of some people masked and others unmasked?

yeah science, as in the more people who get vaxxed the less we talk about masks. not too difficult.

Well, you have to remember that peer pressure which induces people to wear masks is bad. Peer pressure which induces people not to wear masks is good.

Peer pressure with masking in general is bad. Either wear one or don't but don't because of group think. Those who opt to wear one should do so out of concern for their own health and well-being (e.g. like Pedestrian) not for appearances. Likewise for not wearing one. I'm vaccinated and I hated wearing them so I stopped....even at the expense of being mistaken for a Trumptard.