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-   -   CHICAGO | 400 N Lake Shore Drive | 875 FT & 765 FT | ? & ? FLOORS (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=219306)

left of center May 11, 2018 9:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sky88 (Post 8185220)
In my opinion, Related Midwest doesn't have the money to carry out two projects like The 78 and 400 N LSD. The 78 site will cost 5 billion and other billions will cost these two towers on the Spire site. I fear that Related will has to give up one of the two projects at the end.

They wont need the $5+ billion immediately for The 78, because it will be built in phases, one building after the other, over the course of two to three decades. Look at LSE as an example; its been going strong now since 2001. It has seen two economic downturns, and each time they simply pause and wait it out. With the remaining outer sites along the river mouth and LSD, they have probably 5 to 6 more years before its fully built out.

As for 400 LSD, they will be doing one tower at a time. They will probably start with the shorter tower since the foundation is already there, and once its fully leased out, begin the taller one along the river, and probably not right away either, since more than likely we will enter a recession in the next two years, around the time the first tower is nearing completion.

I have no doubt they will be able to see everything through themselves, without needing to bring in partners or part with any of the properties. Now, whether we want them to give the land up so that better designing, less VE-oriented developers can take over is another matter entirely :)

Freefall May 11, 2018 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sky88 (Post 8185220)
In my opinion, Related Midwest doesn't have the money to carry out two projects like The 78 and 400 N LSD. The 78 site will cost 5 billion and other billions will cost these two towers on the Spire site. I fear that Related will has to give up one of the two projects at the end.

The 78 has a 20 year timeline lol

Kngkyle May 11, 2018 10:23 PM

The mention of the two buildings being joined by a podium is a bit concerning. If they don't use the existing bathtub for underground parking....

Sky88 May 11, 2018 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freefall (Post 8185289)
The 78 has a 20 year timeline lol

Maybe but not with Related Midwest.

harryc May 11, 2018 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kngkyle (Post 8185311)
The mention of the two buildings being joined by a podium is a bit concerning. If they don't use the existing bathtub for underground parking....

Secant Wall
Sept 2007





Slurry wall
Jan 2008




kolchak May 11, 2018 11:01 PM

Zara Hadid's concept for the site wasn't bad - fingers crossed for the real design!

http://i68.tinypic.com/33ktabd.jpg
Architecture.org

AlpacaObsessor May 11, 2018 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sky88 (Post 8185324)
The USA economy will collapse in 2022. Many of these projects will be canceled.

Unless Related goes bankrupt, the project will probably just get slowed down by a few years, worst case scenario they might sell of a few plots of land under the condition that they stick to the master plan. Same thing happened with Dallas' Victory Park neighborhood, just a bunch of parking lots next to downtown bought up by a huge developer for the purpose of building a highrise neighborhood, and when the recession hit they sold off some big plots of land in order to pull through. The place took a few extra years to fill in but it happened. Same goes for the rest of these master plans.

donnie May 12, 2018 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlpacaObsessor (Post 8185367)
Unless Related goes bankrupt, the project will probably just get slowed down by a few years, worst case scenario they might sell of a few plots of land under the condition that they stick to the master plan. Same thing happened with Dallas' Victory Park neighborhood, just a bunch of parking lots next to downtown bought up by a huge developer for the purpose of building a highrise neighborhood, and when the recession hit they sold off some big plots of land in order to pull through. The place took a few extra years to fill in but it happened. Same goes for the rest of these master plans.

This is not a master plan. Now the 78 is a master plan for this city!
:tup::tup::tup:

prageethSL May 12, 2018 1:58 AM

Instead of two towers why don't they just build a single 1850 ft tower?. :???:

LaSalle.St.Station May 12, 2018 4:30 AM

The bigger concern is the Illinois economy and population loss. We are one progressive income tax away from major economic disruption to the Chicago economy.

Leave it to related to cut expensive height out.

Barney Greengrass May 12, 2018 7:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kolchak (Post 8185350)
Zara Hadid's concept for the site wasn't bad - fingers crossed for the real design!

http://i68.tinypic.com/33ktabd.jpg
Architecture.org

Stunning design! Hope it gets used somewhere at some point.

pip May 12, 2018 7:23 AM

eh

KWillChicago May 12, 2018 11:21 AM

^ Star Wars towers. I like 'em.

chris08876 May 12, 2018 1:29 PM

This looks like its reasonable in its scope. While the site would have been ideal for something much taller, realistically, this might have a chance. Which is good. Better than a hole in the ground.

I think everyone would of loved a mega-tall, but in the world of economics, what is built will have to make sense financially and based on the current market. This is good news regardless.

BVictor1 May 12, 2018 1:58 PM

I've really been thinking about this project lately, and I will reserve judgement until I actually see a design.

Expectations are high, and that wasn't just revolving around height and scale.

Reading everyone's comments, I come to the conclusion that we've all become a bit spoiled. Yes... we were all hoping for something about 1,500', but realistically, I think we all knew that was a long shot.

Over the past 7 months, we've had three announced skyscrapers that'll meet or exceed 1,000'. Think about that...

None of us expected One Chicago Square to be to towers ranging from 660' t0 1,011'...

Three weeks ago we got Tribune East at over 1,400'

And now this...

While I too was hoping for something taller, we have an evolving skyline right before our eyes.

So instead of bitching and zoning, how about waiting until Tuesday, or when the renderings come out...?

maru2501 May 12, 2018 2:20 PM

between those three at least one should get built. My money is on OCS

rgolch May 12, 2018 2:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BVictor1 (Post 8185750)
I've really been thinking about this project lately, and I will reserve judgement until I actually see a design.

Expectations are high, and that wasn't just revolving around height and scale.

Reading everyone's comments, I come to the conclusion that we've all become a bit spoiled. Yes... we were all hoping for something about 1,500', but realistically, I think we all knew that was a long shot.

Over the past 7 months, we've had three announced skyscrapers that'll meet or exceed 1,000'. Think about that...

None of us expected One Chicago Square to be to towers ranging from 660' t0 1,011'...

Three weeks ago we got Tribune East at over 1,400'

And now this...

While I too was hoping for something taller, we have an evolving skyline right before our eyes.

So instead of bitching and zoning, how about waiting until Tuesday, or when the renderings come out...?

This.

Pretty much everyone bitching never takes this degree of financial risk in trying to get a project off the ground. I'd rather two solid, relatively tall buildings that add density and urban activity than a rotting hole in the ground.

chicubs111 May 12, 2018 9:00 PM

I too will hold judgment till i see the design..never the less we all have been through a lot with this site for the past 8 years or so..our expectations have been raised to a high standard and having the disappointment that the project will be topping at only 1000ft (yes i know were spoiled for complaining not tall enough) at such a prominent site it is totally understandable.. i think if it was 1200 feet people would of been satisfied to be honest.

Kumdogmillionaire May 12, 2018 9:52 PM

That's basically my view on it. 1200 would have sufficed and been a nice exclamation point in Streeterville. At 1000 feet it'll get lost in the shuffle other than from one or two views. Probably just gonna turn my brain off on this one and just enjoy it for what really is, filling in that blight and embarrassment on the city

marothisu May 12, 2018 10:23 PM

I agree with the notion that people have become too accustomed or even "spoiled" to the idea of having a tower of 1400+ feet on this site. Obviously because at one point there was going to be a 2000 footer there - but that was a different time in many ways. TWO towers including a 1000 footer are great - and within a few blocks of the lake, there really aren't that many (I mean only a few really) of these heights. Proposal wise, it's a pretty exciting time in Chicago - yes could be higher, but still.

I remember a small handful of years ago when some people were complaining that nothing being built at the time in Chicago was over 500 feet. There's currently 3 under construction of over 800 feet, including one which is over 1100 feet with one more 800 footer on the way (site prep) and another 3 between 600 and 800 feet. Then we've had a 1400 footer and another 1000 footer proposed in the last handful of months. On Tuesday, it'll be the 3rd 1000+ footer proposed in a small handful of months...

To be honest, I'm more worried about the design. Height is great, but if the design sucks then people aren't going to care at the end of the day really.

BVictor1 May 13, 2018 2:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zapatan (Post 8186393)
I totally agree, but I can see how some people might be moderately upset since we were given inaccurate information (we were expecting "way" taller than 875' and the number we have been given is not that).

I gave the information I was given... so sorry it wasn't fulfilling and didn't live up to peoples expectations and standards.

Was correct about the two towers part and the firm though.

Can't always have what we want.

go go white sox May 13, 2018 5:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BVictor1 (Post 8185750)
I've really been thinking about this project lately, and I will reserve judgement until I actually see a design.

Expectations are high, and that wasn't just revolving around height and scale.

Reading everyone's comments, I come to the conclusion that we've all become a bit spoiled. Yes... we were all hoping for something about 1,500', but realistically, I think we all knew that was a long shot.

Over the past 7 months, we've had three announced skyscrapers that'll meet or exceed 1,000'. Think about that...

None of us expected One Chicago Square to be to towers ranging from 660' t0 1,011'...

Three weeks ago we got Tribune East at over 1,400'

And now this...

While I too was hoping for something taller, we have an evolving skyline right before our eyes.

So instead of bitching and zoning, how about waiting until Tuesday, or when the renderings come out...?

I couldn't agree more when I joined this site 4 years ago Chicago was not building at these current Heights I'd like to add the second phase of OGB that should be near Supertall status, the South Tower of Wolf Point, that's what about 5+ supertalls in the works?

JMKeynes May 13, 2018 7:05 PM

I think that these towers will be beautiful. Multiple set backs on two very tall towers sounds great to me.

cannedairspray May 13, 2018 7:24 PM

Even an architecture layman, like me, understands that the height of a thing doesn't matter much. How in interacts at the ground level, how it makes the neighborhood more livable... that's what matters.

Full disclosure, while I liked the design of the Spire, I always thought it was a bit bizarre to build a mega tall there. 1k seems much more suitable, but it has to look pretty cause we're gonna see it forever.

glowrock May 13, 2018 10:29 PM

Suffice it to say, it's readily apparent that we have a bunch of new Corsucant-style Chicago SSPers in our midst right now.

Personally, I'll take Chicago's urban fabric any day, any night over a massive sea of supertalls such as Dubai. I know there's a happy medium somewhere, but personally I'll lean closer to Chicago than Dubai when it comes to livability!

For those such as Siriusly, I do honestly suggest toning it down more than a little bit. Your brash and insulting posts are doing little more than piss off pretty much everyone else in the Chicago SSP contingent. I understand your passion for skyscrapers and supertalls, but wow, tone it down, would you please???

Aaron (Glowrock)

Steely Dan May 13, 2018 10:54 PM

Off topic posts deleted. nothing good ever comes from the incessant dick measuring contests.

Anyone who mentions NYC or any NYC project in this thread is getting suspended.

For a really long time.

Perhaps forever.

ardecila May 14, 2018 4:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cannedairspray (Post 8186659)
Even an architecture layman, like me, understands that the height of a thing doesn't matter much. How in interacts at the ground level, how it makes the neighborhood more livable... that's what matters.

Full disclosure, while I liked the design of the Spire, I always thought it was a bit bizarre to build a mega tall there. 1k seems much more suitable, but it has to look pretty cause we're gonna see it forever.

A city full of sculpted object buildings is a bore, but if there ever was a site for an object building, this is it. It's on an isolated peninsula of the city, guaranteeing that nobody will ever walk past it. If it has a well-designed base, so much the better (hopefully it interacts well with Ogden Slip) but I will personally hope for a building that is distinctive and fitting for the skyline instead of a generic 500 N LSD glass box. In this case, I think the postcard image does matter more than the urbanist fundamentals.

That being said... I don't need to see a supertall here. We can have an iconic, unique sculptural design that will be a fitting centerpiece for the skyline without the unrealistic expectation of a 2000' tall tower that will never make business sense...

moorhosj May 14, 2018 2:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 8187038)
That being said... I don't need to see a supertall here.

Based on the Tribune article, you will see a supertall here.

Notyrview May 14, 2018 2:52 PM

Something sensual and fluid would be nice given it's where the river meets the lake. However, i wouldn't want an object building. Those always look so cheesy. But sensual would be good.

LouisVanDerWright May 14, 2018 3:21 PM

I'm hoping for two totally featureless glass boxes that Related will VE to the point where they literally ditch the glass and go with Saran Wrap (TM) as the cladding. Also hoping the Tribune is wrong and the tallest tower is 999' 11" just to fuck with everyone here.

Notyrview May 14, 2018 3:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright (Post 8187278)
I'm hoping for two totally featureless glass boxes that Related will VE to the point where they literally ditch the glass and go with Saran Wrap (TM) as the cladding. Also hoping the Tribune is wrong and the tallest tower is 999' 11" just to fuck with everyone here.

Lol well i think you're prob in luck

Steely Dan May 14, 2018 3:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zapatan (Post 8187281)
And "way taller" is subjective so it's not really a big deal...

i think that's where many of us got tripped up.

i knew that with related involved the pipe dream of a mega-tall on this site was just that, a pipe dream.

but when i heard the rumor of "way taller" than 875', i foolishly allowed my imagination to wander and thought to myself "shit, maybe related really will go big here, maybe up to 1,500' and take the local title away from sears".

but no, that was always gonna be pretty unlikely considering the fact that were' talking about related.

a 14% difference doesn't fall under my personal definition of "way", but at least it sounds like they're proposing something in the super-tall range, so while it won't be skyline redefining, it'll still be tall enough to stand out in its immediate surroundings. let's just hope the design doesn't disappoint. i guess we'll find that out soon enough.

Sky88 May 14, 2018 4:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zapatan (Post 8187281)
I'm not blaming you, I'm blaming the person who told you. And "way taller" is subjective so it's not really a big deal... I'm looking forward to seeing the design and hope there's a cool skybridge between the towers.

Maybe something like that ...

http://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/NqxNZ....15_20AM.0.png


http://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/OkD_n....46_20AM.0.png

Perkins + Will released renderings of a conceptual twin-towered project for the Spire site (rendering by Perkins + Will) - 2014

maru2501 May 14, 2018 4:19 PM

can't find my magic wand or I'd hand this to Jeanne Gang and say do whatever you want

gebs May 14, 2018 4:47 PM

I love seeing everyone go through the five stages of grief in real time.

gebs May 14, 2018 4:49 PM

Denial: Maybe they fed the Sun Times the wrong info just to mess with us.
Anger: WHERE'S MY TWO-THOUSAND FOOTER?!
Bargaining: But really, who would want a megatall here anyway, right?
Depression: Stupid 2008 recession.
Acceptance: Welp, just so long as it looks good.

r18tdi May 14, 2018 5:05 PM

^ lol

harryc May 14, 2018 5:14 PM

Patiently Waiting
 

May 8 2018

Steely Dan May 14, 2018 5:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gebs (Post 8187409)
Denial: Maybe they fed the Sun Times the wrong info just to mess with us.
Anger: WHERE'S MY TWO-THOUSAND FOOTER?!
Bargaining: But really, who would want a megatall here anyway, right?
Depression: Stupid 2008 recession.
Acceptance: Welp, just so long as it looks good.

:haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:

that was beautiful.

Investing In Chicago May 14, 2018 5:37 PM

I'm probably in the minority here, but i'd rather 2 towers at ~1,000ft and ~800ft than 1 ~1,500 foot tower....As long as they look good.

Investing In Chicago May 14, 2018 5:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maru2501 (Post 8187358)
can't find my magic wand or I'd hand this to Jeanne Gang and say do whatever you want

What would that do? Everyone here is bitching about Related, not the architect.

JK47 May 14, 2018 6:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan (Post 8187319)
but when i heard the rumor of "way taller" than 875', i foolishly allowed my imagination to wander and thought to myself "shit, maybe related really will go big here, maybe up to 1,500' and take the local title away from sears".


I know that the leak about terracotta elements being included in the design was true because I had it confirmed. If the cladding is all glass then I'm fairly certain that the design has already gone through some VE'ing.

JK47 May 14, 2018 6:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago (Post 8187479)
I'm probably in the minority here, but i'd rather 2 towers at ~1,000ft and ~800ft than 1 ~1,500 foot tower....As long as they look good.


It'll look just as good and be constructed using the same quality of materials as the other 850 ft tall tower that Related is building nearby and marketing to high net worth individuals.

Investing In Chicago May 14, 2018 6:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JK47 (Post 8187526)
It'll look just as good and be constructed using the same quality of materials as the other 850 ft tall tower that Related is building nearby and marketing to high net worth individuals.

Perhaps...but speculating is pointless. I'll wait until it's revealed and built to cast judgement.

Notyrview May 14, 2018 7:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JK47 (Post 8187526)
It'll look just as good and be constructed using the same quality of materials as the other 850 ft tall tower that Related is building nearby and marketing to high net worth individuals.

In other words, not so good

left of center May 14, 2018 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago (Post 8187531)
Perhaps...but speculating is pointless. I'll wait until it's revealed and built to cast judgement.

Big reveal will be in under 24 hours from now. Expect a lot of judgement in this thread tomorrow evening :)

BuildThemTaller May 15, 2018 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by left of center (Post 8187902)
Big reveal will be in under 24 hours from now. Expect a lot of judgement in this thread tomorrow evening :)

It's been about 10 years of waiting to find out what will happen with this site. While no sure thing, Related Midwest has invested a good deal of money and has the financial means and track record to get something built here. I, for one, am excited to see what they have to propose. For right now, though, I am just glad that we have this final day to know that something will be done here.

Rooster slayer May 15, 2018 1:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuildThemTaller (Post 8187932)
I am just glad that we have this final day to know that something will be done here.

Something would have got built here. Yes, final day until this thread goes bonkers. I reached the edge though. It's kinda crazy how this can get so tense.

Kumdogmillionaire May 15, 2018 1:11 AM

My body is ready ...




.



.



For disappointment

left of center May 15, 2018 1:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuildThemTaller (Post 8187932)
It's been about 10 years of waiting to find out what will happen with this site. While no sure thing, Related Midwest has invested a good deal of money and has the financial means and track record to get something built here. I, for one, am excited to see what they have to propose. For right now, though, I am just glad that we have this final day to know that something will be done here.

I have no doubt Related's ability to get the project off the ground (market conditions notwithstanding), as opposed to our old friend Kelleher. I'm just hoping the render released tomorrow doesn't screw the pooch design-wise. I'd rather wait another decade with an 8 story hole in the ground than have Related produce yet another bland box, and this time on the lakefront, visible for all eternity.

Lets hope Related thinks big... or at the very least, they think not cheap. :fingerscrossed:


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