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Quote:

Originally Posted by Graybeard (Post 6027406)

Gunite, yeah I can see that now. Thanks.

The gunite is spray on type of concrete applied over a mat of welded wire mesh. The gunite is intended to prevent the soil under it from eroding and falling off, sort of like the Pacific Palisades cliffs. One of the problems is that is really hard to disguise because it conforms to the hillside and is only about 2 to 4 inches thick. Any attempt to puncture the surface to allow placing plants would allow water to seep in and as time goes by the inner surface would begin to erode leaving the gunite surface unsupported and fragile like an egg shell with the liquid chicken drained out.

oh, and since you were about to ask...i am a civil engineer...

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 6027505)

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I thought all the more 'famous' adobes were down in old Sonora Town (Los Angeles).Was this actually located in Hollywood or is this a typo?

http://imageshack.us/a/img132/8291/a...erewasthis.jpg
ebay

I'll have to google the 'Treaty of Peace'.

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Start here Boss: http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...,7106561.story

The Outpost Building, 6715 Hollywood Blvd is named for the Outpost adobe (as is Outpost Dr, etc)

There were adobes all over the Los Angeles area during the era of them, roofed with brea from the tar pits. There's still a few scattered about.

The Capitulation of Cahuenga actually wasn't signed at the adobe pictured, that's just more of our fictionalized history, and it wasn't between the US & Mexico (the Treaty of Guadalupe Hildago was a separate event), but just to end local hostilities between Fremont and the Californios.

:previous: Thanks for the information tovanger2. -much appreciated.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 6027325)

Flyers 'Buzz' Harrison and Marjorie Crawford. (I'm trying to read the name on that billboard but the damn propeller is in the way)

http://imageshack.us/a/img842/2815/a...tors1acool.jpg
detail

Joe Toplitzky was a big L.A. real estate man... here's one of his advertising flyers ca. early 1925. The aerial is annotated by Joe to indicate the properties he'd sold, leased or financed in 1924....

http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/7337/toplitzky2.jpg
http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/9489/toplitzky1.jpg

http://www.raremaps.com

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hollywood Graham (Post 6027324)

OMG, They did a lot of remodeling it looks like, not for the best in my estimation. Glad I knew the place before. Thanks for the matchbook cover and update photo. I will go throw up now.

HG, :yuck:oh to relive the days when we could buy horse meat from a mon:yuck:key

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire (Post 6027581)

GREAT graphic GW. Thx.

"The Higher Publicity League of Los Angeles" and "Come to Los Angeles The City of Destiny" are so evocative of their time (and at least we weren't called "The City of the Future" for once).

belmont bob, is it wildly expensive to finish shotcrete? They don't leave swimming pools looking like this. (And LOL, "liquid chickens". If I ever wonder why I'm vegan someone always reminds me.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by belmont bob (Post 6027606)

HG, :yuck:oh to relive the days when we could buy horse meat from a mon:yuck:key

Horse meat from a monkey for a cat no less. Why isn't cat food made out of mice?

Quote:

Originally Posted by belmont bob (Post 6027262)

That’s Chief Itchytoe! I think the gym is still there...the Chief??? no idea

As MichaelRyerson has reported, the Chief is still at Thomas Starr King Middle School. I had to go look for myself...beautiful.

http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/6011/indian2.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img577/6035/indian1s.jpg

He's just about in the center of this aerial in the small fenced square:

http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/9...anoncampus.jpg

The New Deal in Los Angeles/Bing Maps

Quote:

Originally Posted by tovangar2 (Post 6027611)

Horse meat from a monkey for a cat no less. Why isn't cat food made out of mice?

LOL T2! I'm beginning to have nightmares about Mildred's spider monkey.
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Mr. Toplitzky was a busy man!

posted by GaylordWilshire
http://imageshack.us/a/img221/7126/aabgwtoplitzky1.jpg

Amazing graphic GW!

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 6026719)

Never heard of Adams Square until today.*

http://imageshack.us/a/img267/9827/a...arerightsi.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/army_arch/collections/

*The Santa Monica Freeway eventually decimated Adams Square.
So was Mineral Ave. renamed Longwood Ave? ...

...OK, I found Vineyard Avenue but where are 24th & 23rd Avenues? Were they renamed as well?

ER: Adams Square was one of several tracts in southwest L.A. developed by the Ratterree Brothers... it was just to the west of their Washington Square. The longitudinal streets were continuations of those already in place in the older West View tract to the north (which was developed by Charles O. Middleton). Mineral did become Longwood; 23th became Palm Grove, 24th became Harcourt. Lucerne Ave, inspired by Lucerne Blvd to the north, was inserted between Palm Grove and Vineyard. The numbered avenues in southwest L.A. began with 2nd Avenue west of Arlington (appparently originally meant to be 1st Ave) continuing to 35th Ave. All of these avenues west of 13th were later renamed.

Adams Square houses were often charming but modest compared to those in the West View tract. Among those of the latter is the Harry P. Hubbard house at 1920 West View...

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-T...719%2520PM.jpgGSV

:previous: Thank you GaylordWilshire! That explains the discrepancies in the Adams Square ad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tovangar2 (Post 6027611)

tovangar2..It’s not the expense of the gunite that is high because they can apply to almost any surface. The real cost is the preparation of the surface. For obvious reasons people want the sides of their swimming pools to be nice and flat and pretty. For a steep hillside there is little reason for whoever is paying the bills to require a nice smooth grading job. In the case of this hillside cut I would assume the city was paying and they would not spend anything over the minimum. (well maybe a little graft on the side)

And what else is an egg ready for the frying pan…???

Quote:

Originally Posted by belmont bob (Post 6027772)

They are building a whole mountain of that crap up on the 5 Freeway by the 14. I think the Stimulus Bill is responsible for funding this one.

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/8883/capturevud.jpg
Google Street View

Quote:

Originally Posted by tovangar2 (Post 6027375)

Is there no way to make the present system of erosion impediment less unsightly? Could it be pierced and planted? One sees this all over town. Even scenic La Jolla has had it's famous cliffs disfigured with the stuff.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-S...227%2520PM.jpg
gsv

Underneath that sprayed on gunite is adobe soil and without the gunite it would have come down 60 or 70 yrs ago. The brown must have been colored at sometime in the last few years as when I grew up it was all gray. I would like to see the hill without it while they were constructing the original building.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyingwedge (Post 6025432)

LAPL has the 1888 and 1894 Sanborn maps available online (with library card). Home access of the database didn't work today (librarians at a loss to explain), so I went to my local branch and looked online at the maps there. The building immediately south of the courthouse was, as MichaelRyerson said, an old jail, and is labeled in some detail on the 1894 map. To me it looks more like a church than a jail.

Here's the New High Street side in c. 1895 (I like that "DRUG" sign at lower left). On the Sanborn map the "church" building is labeled "Off's 1st / D 2nd." Maybe that means "Offices 1st floor" and "Detention 2nd floor"?:
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...psa2d05828.jpg
USC Digital Library (http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/cdm/si...id/2719/rec/28)

It seems to have lost the cross atop the right front corner in this c. 1904 pic:
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...psccc14b9a.jpg
USC Digital Library (http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/cdm/si...id/2722/rec/22)

In this c. 1906 shot looking I guess NE, we see the church-like building from the side/rear. The Sanborn map marks the slightly smaller building attached to the rear of the "church" as the actual jail; unseen and attached to the back side of the jail is a workshop.
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9aa0a585.jpg
USC Digital Library (http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/cdm/si...id/2723/rec/69)

Here are the back of the jail and a little of the workshop building in this c. 1900 pic from the corner of Broadway and Temple:
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0df97288.jpg
USC Digital Library (http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/cdm/si...d/90118/rec/63)

Looking down Broadway in c. 1906 we see -- along with the shaded courthouse in the upper left quadrant of the photo -- a structure with smokestacks that according to the 1894 Sanborn map was behind (west of) the workshop, although they look to have been two halves of the same building. It housed a compression tank, steam plant, and oil and air pumps (seems like a big power plant just for that jail building; it must have also served the courthouse). Feeding the power plant, in the southwest corner of the courthouse lawn, was a 10,000-gallon crude oil tank with its top even with the ground.
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7eef11bb.jpg
USC Digital Library (http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/cdm/si...id/1725/rec/36)

OK, here's the shot I wish I'd found earlier. It's looking SE at the old County Courthouse, possibly from the roof of the WCTU building at Broadway and Temple. To the right you can see the back of the jail and a much clearer view of the workshop/industrial building fronting on Broadway. It looks ugly and out of place there next to the courthouse. Probably smelled and sounded unpleasant as well:
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...ps368f9893.jpg
LAPL (http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics17/00018269.jpg)

It's tough to see, but what's that there in the southwest corner of the courthouse lawn? Maybe if we zoom in and lighten the area a bit . . . http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...psa02a655f.jpg
Above the blue line, on that narrow flat peninsula of the courthouse grounds, it looks to me like the round top of that 10,000 gallon oil tank that the Sanborn people were concerned about. And could that be a primitive wagon/tank next to it, making a delivery?

# # #

Before we leave the area, here's a shot I don't think we've seen before of the 1902 County Jail at Temple and Buena Vista, and at left the old Hall of Justice just behind it on Buena Vista. Note the tall windows with rounded tops on the back part of the jail:
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...ps47bbea9d.jpg
LAPL (http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics35/00037443.jpg)

Here are those windows again. This is looking east in c. 1921, between the Hall of Justice and the County Jail. That's the old US Post Office across New High Street in the background. The bridge connecting the HOJ and CJ was known as the Bridge of Sighs. I wonder if anyone who crossed it also crossed the one in Venice?
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...ps112a055f.jpg
UCLA Digital Collections

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyingwedge (Post 6027867)

Before we leave the area, here's a shot I don't think we've seen before of the 1902 County Jail at Temple and Buena Vista, and at left the old Hall of Justice just behind it on Buena Vista. Note the tall windows with rounded tops on the back part of the jail:
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...ps47bbea9d.jpg
LAPL (http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics35/00037443.jpg)

Here are those windows again. This is looking east in c. 1921, between the Hall of Justice and the County Jail. That's the old US Post Office across New High Street in the background. The bridge connecting the HOJ and CJ was known as the Bridge of Sighs. I wonder if anyone who crossed it also crossed the one in Venice?
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...ps112a055f.jpg
UCLA Digital Collections

Truly superb! The photo of the Court House from the WCTU building is excellent, too. Thank you!

Oh my, this is such an excellent photograph. Is that a 'ghost' sign for Coca Cola?

originally posting by FlyingWedge
http://imageshack.us/a/img543/2590/aabjaillaplssp.jpg
LAPL

Here's another view I came across by accident.

http://imageshack.us/a/img713/8003/aabjailornot.jpg
http://waterandpower.org/museum/Earl...1925%20+).html

Excavating for the new City Hall. (to be honest, I didn't realize the Hall of Justice predated City Hall)
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I don't think that we have seen this shot of the Gladden Hotel at the corner of First Street and Olive before:

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/131/gladdenapts.jpg
http://www.electricearl.com/bh/GladdenApts.html (1956, I believe)

Note the vacant lot next door to the hotel in the photo above. It used to be occupied by this house at 104 S. Olive:

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/2328/00091573.jpg
lapl (1953)

This photo shows the back side of the Gladden (behind the Texaco sign). and the El Moro Hotel (hanging over the side of the hill).

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/5823/00091576.jpg
lapl (1953)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire (Post 6027640)

http://imageshack.us/a/img577/6035/indian1s.jpg

'Vanquished' and penned. Looks like a zoo exhibit.

If one hasn't read Lies Across America: What Our Historic Sites Get Wrong by James M. Loewen, 2000, I'd highly recommend it. An examination of US monuments, markers and historic sites with examples from all 50 states.

It's a follow-up to Loewen's outstanding, award-winning Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong, 1995. Cheap used copies at Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Lies-My-Teache.../dp/0743296281) or the PDF is available free online, here for example: http://ww2.ramapo.edu/libfiles/CRW/L...0Told%20Me.pdf

Loewen found his calling after the historic First Amendment court battle of Loewen vs Turnipseed (the case is briefly explained at Loewen's wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Loewen) when an accurate school history textbook he had written was rejected as "too controversial".

:previous:

Must we? I like the statue very much; I think of the efforts of the sculptor. I'm glad that it is still on the campus--as is, apparently, the Thomas Starr King community, which seems to have made an effort to protect it. And I think school uniforms are a very good idea, if not on Djey el Djey's "The Vanquished Race."

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/92/...ainteddual.jpg http://www.publicartinla.com

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