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-   -   CHICAGO | Riverline | 8 Towers | 600FT - 500FT(X2) - 380FT(X2) - 242FT(X2) - 300FT~ (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=221826)

marothisu Sep 11, 2016 7:47 PM

I have a small handful of friends who live across from the Riverline site, so I'm aware of that. The thing that bothers me though is the immediate retail/commercial planned for the site - even if there's some nearby - when you're putting a few thousand units nearby, you should do that. Luckily it's maybe a little better positioned than Lakeshore East.

On another note, what do you guys think about the Water Taxi adding another stop at Riverline in a few years? Not only are there a few thousand people near there already, but there will be thousands more with Riverline, 801 S Financial, etc. Would be pretty cool to add another stop between Union Station and Chinatown for the Water Taxi.

ithakas Sep 11, 2016 9:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marothisu (Post 7557617)
On another note, what do you guys think about the Water Taxi adding another stop at Riverline in a few years? Not only are there a few thousand people near there already, but there will be thousands more with Riverline, 801 S Financial, etc. Would be pretty cool to add another stop between Union Station and Chinatown for the Water Taxi.

They're planning it! I spoke to someone at CMK a few weeks ago who mentioned it – I love the water taxi so it's great news.

On another note – agree that this hopefully builds retail in the area, and the good street level kind, not the Roosevelt/Canal kind. I think Printers Row from Wabash/Clark could be the city's fashionable retail district that it doesn't really have. (Some of this is opening in the West Loop but it's so dominated by restaurants I don't see it really becoming its primary uses.)

Stores like COS, Opening Ceremony, Acne, etc. don't have an obvious place in Chicago, but the potential's there with the mix of art schools, young professionals, vintage building stock, and relative proximity to tourist dollars (moving from State Street down to Museum Campus).

HowardL Sep 11, 2016 9:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marothisu (Post 7557617)
On another note, what do you guys think about the Water Taxi adding another stop at Riverline in a few years? Not only are there a few thousand people near there already, but there will be thousands more with Riverline, 801 S Financial, etc. Would be pretty cool to add another stop between Union Station and Chinatown for the Water Taxi.

Yeah, definitely. A friend and I attempted to go to Chinatown using the water taxi at the Wrigley Building only to find that the frequent service to the Northwestern Station dock evaporates if you want to go further south.

We waited for the Chinatown transfer until hunger drove us to Little Goat instead of dim sum. More frequent service south of Madison buoyed by this project would completely rock.

Because I want some dim sum.

Steely Dan Sep 12, 2016 1:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrinChi (Post 7557241)
Ok trying to determine the population density...

13 acres = 0.0203 square miles;
3700 units. Let's conservatively say 1.5 residents per unit. That's 5,550 residents.
5,550/0.0203 = 274,000 people per square mile.

Assuming my math is correct... isn't this plenty dense?

where did you get the 13 acres from? i got 15 acres for the site when i measured in google earth (and i left out the parcel at harrison/wells).

it doesn't change the math much, but 15 acres equals .023 sq. miles, so with 3700 units x 1.5 residents, that would equal 241,000 ppsm.

anyone who thinks that 241,000 ppsm isn't dense enough for this parcel simply has no idea what they're talking about.

marothisu Sep 12, 2016 2:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HowardL (Post 7557683)
Yeah, definitely. A friend and I attempted to go to Chinatown using the water taxi at the Wrigley Building only to find that the frequent service to the Northwestern Station dock evaporates if you want to go further south.

We waited for the Chinatown transfer until hunger drove us to Little Goat instead of dim sum. More frequent service south of Madison buoyed by this project would completely rock.

Because I want some dim sum.

Funny, but you do know you guys could have just walked a few blocks to the Red Line and gotten to Chinatown faster/just as easily right?

Mr Downtown Sep 12, 2016 2:41 PM

Adding together the two PDs (225 + 1298), I get 14.74 acres.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris08876 (Post 7557263)
developers in general don't capitalize on the idea that many people want units close to the CBD or in the CBD

This very developer did a project (235 W Van Buren) much closer to the financial district that gave him a lot of sleepless nights about whether he was ever going to sell enough units to get out from under his construction loan.

He's out on a long limb here (though Lend Lease is holding a net nearby), but you think he should climb out on thin air. On a site that has no transit access of any kind, and is served by only one 66-foot-wide street. Once the Great Recession's backlog in new household formation has cleared, where do you think this endless procession of millennial purchasers will come from?

BVictor1 Sep 12, 2016 3:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spyguy (Post 7557459)
The article still mentions that Phase 1 will be the 29 story apartment building, 18 story condo building, and 62 townhomes.

Stay away from the comment section there, pretty nasty.

Ryanrule Sep 12, 2016 3:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 7557282)
^ You can't apply a New York lens to Chicago. It's a very different market, there is not a bottomless well of demand for highrise living with zero lake views. CMK has been operating here for decades, and in the South Loop specifically.

Let's compare two previous mega-developments in Chicago, Lakeshore East and Central Station. Both are on the lakefront, both are similar size, and both are Loop-adjacent. Central Station embraced a mix of housing types, with highrises alongside townhouse developments and a few midrises thrown in. Lakeshore East went all-in on highrises.

Today, Central Station is pretty much complete while Lakeshore East will not be finished for another decade or two. Each project that Magellan does at Lakeshore East is a whole new battle with community groups, lenders, investors, etc. If a recession hits, you're not gonna build more highrises, period. On the other hand, if your master plan includes some lower-density phases, you might be able to get those off the ground even during lean times and keep your company in business.

Let's say in Chicago there are X number of people looking to buy a highrise condo, Y number of people looking to rent an apartment, and Z people looking to buy a townhouse. If you build only highrises, then your pool of customers is limited to only X+Y. If you mix up the housing types and include townhouses, your pool of customers just increased to include Z as well. Diversifying the housing types (and lowering overall density somewhat) raises your total pool of customers and, to some extent, insulates you against various kinds of risk.

I agree, they need to build very tall towers here for lake views. Not lowrises 2 blocks from one of the tallest towers in the world.

Ryanrule Sep 12, 2016 3:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 7558252)
Adding together the two PDs (225 + 1298), I get 14.74 acres.



This very developer did a project (235 W Van Buren) much closer to the financial district that gave him a lot of sleepless nights about whether he was ever going to sell enough units to get out from under his construction loan.

He's out on a long limb here (though Lend Lease is holding a net nearby), but you think he should climb out on thin air. On a site that has no transit access of any kind, and is served by only one 66-foot-wide street. Once the Great Recession's backlog in new household formation has cleared, where do you think this endless procession of millennial purchasers will come from?

235 has shitty layouts and lots of "2 bedrooms" or "1 bedrooms" with those fake fraud half wall bedrooms.

If he wanted to sell better, he should have spent more.

HowardL Sep 12, 2016 5:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marothisu (Post 7558244)
Funny, but you do know you guys could have just walked a few blocks to the Red Line and gotten to Chinatown faster/just as easily right?

Of course. That was how we intended to come back up north because the late evening water taxi schedule was even worse than the early evening schedule. We had wanted to do the water taxi because of how cool it would have been to have gone to Chinatown on the river.

And to keep this on topic, all of the activity on the river helps explain why this project is so river focused and isn't so much worried about views way over there of the Lake.

marothisu Sep 12, 2016 6:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HowardL (Post 7558517)
Of course. That was how we intended to come back up north because the late evening water taxi schedule was even worse than the early evening schedule. We had wanted to do the water taxi because of how cool it would have been to have gone to Chinatown on the river.

And to keep this on topic, all of the activity on the river helps explain why this project is so river focused and isn't so much worried about views way over there of the Lake.

Haha, good. I love taking the water taxi to and from Chinatown. I've shown some of my friends visiting town and some friends I made who just moved to Chicago a handful of months ago. They all loved it and way preferred it to taking the train.

migueltorres Sep 12, 2016 7:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marothisu (Post 7558599)
Haha, good. I love taking the water taxi to and from Chinatown. I've shown some of my friends visiting town and some friends I made who just moved to Chicago a handful of months ago. They all loved it and way preferred it to taking the train.

I just took the water taxi yesterday from the Wrigley Building to Chinatown for Dim Sum and back. It was an amazing experience and so relaxing. I can't wait to do it again

Randomguy34 Sep 12, 2016 7:45 PM

DNAInfo is reporting Riverline is breaking ground today. They included an image of the 29 story building from the Wells St side, and boy...that base needs to cover up

Massive Riverline Development To Break Ground Monday
https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/2016...-ground-monday

https://assets.dnainfo.com/photo/201...extralarge.jpg

SolarWind Sep 13, 2016 1:32 AM

September 12, 2016






BVictor1 Sep 13, 2016 1:39 AM

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/c...12-column.html


Quote:

Promising South Loop project could herald riverfront revival

Blair KaminContact Reporter
Chicago Tribune

September 12, 2017

It's a rare thing to get a chance to develop 14 acres along the Chicago River, rarer still when that land is a short hike from Willis Tower. Done right, such an undertaking can provide a carefully-choreographed ensemble of buildings that lets people walk to work and frames lively streets, attractive parks and a continuous riverwalk.

It's going to be fascinating, or frustrating, to see if that vision is realized in Riverline, the big South Loop project that lines the river's east bank between Harrison Street and Roosevelt Road. A preview, which came Monday as Mayor Rahm Emanuel and developers broke ground, was encouraging.

With an estimated price tag of $1.5 billion, Riverline will consist of more than 3,600 apartments, condominiums and townhouses. It's one of the largest chunks of land assembled for development in downtown Chicago since the 28-acre Lakeshore East opened north of Millennium Park in 2005. Combine it with the anticipated transformation of the nearby old main post office into offices, as well as Related Midwest's yet-to-be-disclosed plans for homes, stores and offices on the 62-acre riverfront parcel south of Roosevelt, and you have the makings of a South Side riverfront revival.

The Riverline master plan, by the Chicago office of Perkins+Will architects for developers CMK Cos. of Chicago and Australia-based Lendlease, promises to invigorate a weed-infested riverfront site that's been dormant since the 1971 demolition of the Grand Central Station passenger railroad terminal.
http://www.trbimg.com/img-57d70479/t.../1100/1100x619

http://www.trbimg.com/img-57d7047b/t.../1100/1100x619

http://www.trbimg.com/img-57d7047b/t.../1100/1100x619

http://www.trbimg.com/img-57d7047d/t.../1100/1100x619

KWILLSKYLINE Sep 14, 2016 3:44 PM

http://chicago.curbed.com/2016/9/13/...groundbreaking

BVictor1 Sep 14, 2016 5:43 PM

Case Foundation moving in...

ardecila Sep 14, 2016 6:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randomguy34 (Post 7558713)
They included an image of the 29 story building from the Wells St side, and boy...that base needs to cover up

I dunno, I think it's pretty badass and dynamic. This is Perkins+Will, what did you expect after 235 Van Buren and Contemporaine?

I would much rather see the cars in the garage (either with open walls ala Marina City or glass window wall) than see a giant blank surface.

Kumdogmillionaire Sep 14, 2016 10:12 PM

Yeah the base is not offensive in the slightest, at least in the renderings. That could all change if the materials used on the base suck ass

BrinChi Sep 15, 2016 2:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan (Post 7558205)
where did you get the 13 acres from? i got 15 acres for the site when i measured in google earth (and i left out the parcel at harrison/wells).

it doesn't change the math much, but 15 acres equals .023 sq. miles, so with 3700 units x 1.5 residents, that would equal 241,000 ppsm.

anyone who thinks that 241,000 ppsm isn't dense enough for this parcel simply has no idea what they're talking about.

I Googled it and the article I pulled said 13 acres. I think the latest ones are still saying 14 acres. We probably should also include half the acreage of the surrounding streets as well to account for the fact that streets are included when looking at ppsm in a larger neighborhood/city context. That said, even if this development were double the landmass, it would still be in excess of 100,000 ppsm. That certainly satisfies my own appetite for density. :cheers:

While we're on the topic, does anyone know of good studies or reading on residential density in terms of infrastructure cost and livability? I feel like numbers and research would be a good thing to have on hand when talking to the anti-density crowd (i.e. NIMBYs).

r18tdi Sep 15, 2016 1:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrinChi (Post 7561929)
While we're on the topic, does anyone know of good studies or reading on residential density in terms of infrastructure cost and livability? I feel like numbers and research would be a good thing to have on hand when talking to the anti-density crowd (i.e. NIMBYs).

Data is always good, but your plan makes the false assumption that NIMBYs are reasonable. ;)

BVictor1 Sep 17, 2016 3:11 AM

09/16/16

Sorry for the shitty picture, I was giving a tour and snapping a picture at the same time. It's not the best angle or position, but you get the idea.

https://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a...D720/ry%3D480/

go go white sox Sep 20, 2016 3:33 AM

Found this video on riverline thought you guys would enjoy. This is going to truly be a historic development for Chicago.

https://youtu.be/8tKvOlixo9M

KWILLSKYLINE Sep 20, 2016 9:20 AM

^^^ Cool. Good find.

UPChicago Sep 20, 2016 7:33 PM

This happened pretty quickly!

BVictor1 Sep 22, 2016 4:18 PM

I'm pretty sure they're drilling.

I saw Ozinga concrete trucks on site.

LouisVanDerWright Sep 22, 2016 6:10 PM

Just had the pleasure of shooting shit with an Ozinga driver yesterday who was delivering to one of my projects yesterday who was lamenting they didn't get Vista, but said they had Riverline. I guess Prairie has the contract on Vista, we will see for sure soon!

Are there two one one buildings under construction now? I know they kept saying phase one was a taller rental building and a shorter condo with the associated townhomes, but is the condo tower waiting on presales or something? If so, which tower in the master plan is the condo building they plan to start next?

2PRUROCKS! Sep 27, 2016 2:33 AM

I went by the site today and can confirm incase there was any question that the building D portion of this project under construction. Case was actively drilling caissons.

SolarWind Sep 28, 2016 11:53 PM

September 28, 2016










HowardL Sep 29, 2016 1:24 AM

For kicks, I decided to take the Ravenswood home from Madison tonight and I was stupidly surprised to see the drilling equipment from the L stop.

This project will really extend some urbanity and humanity down Wells.

harryc Oct 7, 2016 12:16 AM

Sep 29











SolarWind Oct 7, 2016 1:06 AM

October 6, 2016




Tom Servo Oct 7, 2016 5:14 AM

So what part of this massive development is currently being built? Can someone post a picture of what they're currently working on? Also, is there a site plan somewhere, illustrating everything?

Mr Downtown Oct 7, 2016 3:13 PM

Building D is under construction. It will look like this:

http://i.imgur.com/vMP4LQj.jpg

I think most of the riverwalk is to be part of the initial construction, but obviously all the new public space can't be completed until other buildings are in place.

http://i.imgur.com/3CdO3BL.jpg

sentinel Oct 7, 2016 8:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randomguy34 (Post 7558713)
DNAInfo is reporting Riverline is breaking ground today. They included an image of the 29 story building from the Wells St side, and boy...that base needs to cover up

Massive Riverline Development To Break Ground Monday
https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/2016...-ground-monday

https://assets.dnainfo.com/photo/201...extralarge.jpg

Here's another image from a couple of pages back, looking SW.

Incidentally, that site plan is the first time that the vacant lot on the NE corner of this development has really stood out for me. I don't recall seeing anything or reading anything about that parcel....unless I've missed something.

Kngkyle Oct 7, 2016 9:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sentinel (Post 7587259)
Incidentally, that site plan is the first time that the vacant lot on the NE corner of this development has really stood out for me. I don't recall seeing anything or reading anything about that parcel....unless I've missed something.

It is owned by a different developer. I don't believe any plans have been announced for it - yet.

KWILLSKYLINE Oct 8, 2016 6:20 PM

Whats the reason for that? I figured a development team would want the entire area, unless the the price is that high, or that site has something big planned?.

Mr Downtown Oct 8, 2016 7:47 PM

That corner was broken off in 2005 by D2 for a project that never happened. It was supposed to go to auction in 2011, but I don't think a new buyer ever closed on the land because I think D2 was still in control when Divergent was filmed there.

I would guess that CMK tried to buy it because it would have made site planning a lot easier, but concluded the asking price was too steep.

hammersklavier Oct 8, 2016 9:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 7586811)
Building D is under construction. It will look like this:

http://i.imgur.com/vMP4LQj.jpg

I think most of the riverwalk is to be part of the initial construction, but obviously all the new public space can't be completed until other buildings are in place.

http://i.imgur.com/3CdO3BL.jpg

This render suggest it goes all the way from Roosevelt to Harrison, no? Does anybody have a site plan for the part south of Polk? Or are just focusing on the block between Roosevelt and Polk for now?


Mr Downtown Oct 8, 2016 10:39 PM

Here's what's in the PD. I expect the building footprints and other details will be refined substantially in the decades to come.

http://i.imgur.com/mJkF5cG.png

KWILLSKYLINE Oct 8, 2016 11:44 PM

Hopefully really tall. Im hopeing 60

Mr Downtown Oct 9, 2016 12:23 AM

Dream on.

http://i.imgur.com/eS3Fq5V.jpg

Kumdogmillionaire Oct 9, 2016 7:38 AM

I think he's hoping for 60 on the lot that isn't being developed here, Mr. Downtown. We all already know the rough heights of all these buildings

KWILLSKYLINE Oct 9, 2016 8:34 AM

I am. But not all dreams come true.

harryc Oct 9, 2016 9:11 PM

Oct 08
A lazy Saturday afternoon.




Must have a full set of bits, just gotta.

SamInTheLoop Oct 10, 2016 4:57 AM

Mr D - (or anyone else)

The elevation and the site plan you posted of the southern portion of Riverline (River City-South to Roosevelt)....I'm confused - in the elevation I see Building G. It doesn't appear in the site plan though......? It looks to be where Townhomes 1 in the site plan are located.....any idea what's going on there?


Also, I'm curious - so Building D is part of the first phase - as are some of the townhomes, the park, and one condo building. Which condo building is it? Is it in the northern parcel (as D is) or the southern parcel? If it's the southern parcel, is it the building fronting Roosevelt?

Kngkyle Oct 11, 2016 4:12 PM

So this is pretty interesting from Perkins + Will. Just conceptual at this point but they say "it could potentially be realized by the time of the masterplan’s final phases."

http://www.archdaily.com/796649/the-...er-beech-tower

http://images.adsttc.com/media/image...w/overall2.jpg
http://images.adsttc.com/media/image...or_atrium2.jpg
[img]
http://images.adsttc.com/media/image...t_-_atrium.jpg
http://images.adsttc.com/media/image..._balconies.jpg
http://images.adsttc.com/media/image...or_atrium2.jpg

ardecila Oct 11, 2016 6:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop (Post 7589058)
Mr D - (or anyone else)

The elevation and the site plan you posted of the southern portion of Riverline (River City-South to Roosevelt)....I'm confused - in the elevation I see Building G. It doesn't appear in the site plan though......? It looks to be where Townhomes 1 in the site plan are located.....any idea what's going on there?

Townhomes 1 refers to the liner townhouses built around the base of Building G.

The freestanding townhouses would be a later phase...

Mr Downtown Oct 11, 2016 9:08 PM

Yeah, I just talked to my source. The site plan in the PD may be out of date or misleading. I guess Building G is one of the two that's imminent, under the name Current.

pilsenarch Oct 12, 2016 1:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kngkyle (Post 7590173)

this is not Ralph or any official P&W project... I suspect some kid in the office developed this... the project is clearly some fantasy and clearly reveals itself as such on some many levels I can't even begin to point all of them out...


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