SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/index.php)
-   Transportation (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=25)
-   -   New York City - Transit News (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=154524)

k1052 Sep 26, 2022 2:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg (Post 9741974)
^What was crazy is that I saw a lot of people this past weekend and when I told them that I toured this project almost none of them had even heard of the East Side Access. Construction has been completely invisible to average people. I imagine that many people, including lifelong New Yorkers, have never ridden a LIRR train, and still won't after this big outlay.

This project has failed to attract broad attention because it's underground and because it was built to serve Long Island - which has three million residents, but that's just a fraction of a metro with 15+ million. How does a city councilman or U.S. Rep score a win with something that is underground and mostly benefits one fraction of the NYC metro area? That same dilemma faces the Utica subway, or any future Atlantic Terminal service.

The ESA is a project from a time where LIRR was crush loaded into Penn and the hot office market had moved to the east side of Midtown. Peak commuter demand has now been decimated by COVID (perhaps never to fully return) and the high end office market is more diffuse and subdued. Politicians like opening stations though so you can still get those funded as well as some extensions (SAS). Utica would be a relatively easy sell and directly benefit a ton of people.

jmecklenborg Sep 26, 2022 3:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k1052 (Post 9741985)
The ESA is a project from a time where LIRR was crush loaded into Penn and the hot office market had moved to the east side of Midtown. Peak commuter demand has now been decimated by COVID (perhaps never to fully return) and the high end office market is more diffuse and subdued. Politicians like opening stations though so you can still get those funded as well as some extensions (SAS). Utica would be a relatively easy sell and directly benefit a ton of people.


Hudson Yards, within walking distance of Penn, has no doubt attracted more new office construction than has East Side Access. East Side Access can be easily accessed by the LIRR or NJ Transit (plus PATH) but not Metro North. For the the area around Grand Central to attract more office, it would need direct commuter service from New Jersey, either NJ Transit or PATH.

mrnyc Sep 26, 2022 3:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k1052 (Post 9741968)
Brooklyn IRT capacity has problems because Nostrand is f'd and they've known how to fix it for decades but haven't because it's not flashy project. You don't have to build the whole second system to do this. Fix the interlockings and do more CBTC.

can we quit with this old utica train diblasio era nonsense and get back to the interborough express and get that done? sheesh! :haha:

mrnyc Sep 26, 2022 3:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg (Post 9741974)
^What was crazy is that I saw a lot of people this past weekend and when I told them that I toured this project almost none of them had even heard of the East Side Access. Construction has been completely invisible to average people. I imagine that many people, including lifelong New Yorkers, have never ridden a LIRR train, and still won't after this big outlay.

This project has failed to attract broad attention because it's underground and because it was built to serve Long Island - which has three million residents, but that's just a fraction of a metro with 15+ million. How does a city councilman or U.S. Rep score a win with something that is underground and mostly benefits one fraction of the NYC metro area? That same dilemma faces the Utica subway, or any future Atlantic Terminal service.


you know what else is crazy? that you did not tell us how you scored this east side access tour -- whats the deets on that? :shrug:

Busy Bee Sep 26, 2022 4:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnyc (Post 9742076)
can we quit with this old utica train diblasio era nonsense and get back to the interborough express and get that done? sheesh! :haha:

A Utica subway has been a planning "priority" for 100 years. First with the original IRT Brooklyn Line provision then with the city's Independent plans of '29 and '39 then again after the war withthe BoT/TA transition then with the MTA Program for Action in '68... Then the city went bankrupt and only 63 St and Jamaica got actually built. DeBlasio just picked up the cause of the self evident need for a Utica subway.

jmecklenborg Sep 26, 2022 4:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnyc (Post 9742080)
you know what else is crazy? that you did not tell us how you scored this east side access tour -- whats the deets on that? :shrug:

I know a guy who works for the LIRR. The work elevator was out of service so we had to walk down/up 17 flights of steps (about 8 floors) to the concourse level. There weren't many guys working after hours, just a few guys working on the escalators. The escalators appear to be almost ready but we weren't able to walk down/up them, we had to use the concrete steps.

We were told that they are already testing trains but we didn't see anything happening on the tracks. They are planning to get some new electric work locomotives but don't have them yet. The ventilation system is so powerful that they'll be able to use diesel work locomotives if they need to.

I forgot to mention that there are four circular vent intakes in each station box, aligned with the cross-paths which are aligned with the escalators down from the same concourse. It's all built to be able to keep people safe in the event of a major fire, but it's pretty clever how they were able to use them as an architectural feature.

I also forgot to mention that he doesn't believe that they'll use all four elevator banks when they open. He thinks that they won't turn on the one nearest to the new JP Morgan tower until that tower is occupied. That tower is going to have 12,000+ workers.

k1052 Sep 26, 2022 5:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg (Post 9742039)
Hudson Yards, within walking distance of Penn, has no doubt attracted more new office construction than has East Side Access. East Side Access can be easily accessed by the LIRR or NJ Transit (plus PATH) but not Metro North. For the the area around Grand Central to attract more office, it would need direct commuter service from New Jersey, either NJ Transit or PATH.

Midtown East will continue to attract some high end office activity, the rezoning was consequential. The challenge especially now post-COVID is the comparatively (to other submarkets) high vacancy rates in the area outside the newer Class A builds. A lot of the rationale for building it in the first place is just no longer operative and options in the Hudson Yards area, as you note, are probably more attractive now.

k1052 Sep 26, 2022 5:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg (Post 9742145)
I know a guy who works for the LIRR. The work elevator was out of service so we had to walk down/up 17 flights of steps (about 8 floors) to the concourse level. There weren't many guys working after hours, just a few guys working on the escalators. The escalators appear to be almost ready but we weren't able to walk down/up them, we had to use the concrete steps.

Related my confidence that all the looooong escalators needed access the platform level can be kept in good service is um rather limited.

Busy Bee Sep 26, 2022 5:20 PM

^ If I remember correctly MTA is contracting all escalator oversight and maintenence to Schindler and taking the responsibilty out of their hands. Best idea yet.

k1052 Sep 26, 2022 5:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 9742172)
^ If I remember correctly MTA is contracting all escalator oversight and maintenence to Schindler and taking the responsibilty out of their hands. Best idea yet.

Yes and they did the install so conceivably they should be able to have minimal down time. Some of that will depend how well MTA rides the vendor too.

jmecklenborg Sep 26, 2022 5:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k1052 (Post 9742157)
Related my confidence that all the looooong escalators needed access the platform level can be kept in good service is um rather limited.

There are four banks of four escalators, so sixteen total. I think there's some danger in creating anxious crowd situations if an entire bank breaks down. They'll be able to shift to one that works, but as I believe I mentioned, the cross-passages at track level are relatively narrow.

There's also this issue - if there is a breakdown of either of the "inner" banks, exiting passengers will split their escape route between two options whereas if either the northernmost or southernmost bank breaks down, all passengers will head in by one.

mrnyc Sep 26, 2022 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 9742122)
A Utica subway has been a planning "priority" for 100 years. First with the original IRT Brooklyn Line provision then with the city's Independent plans of '29 and '39 then again after the war withthe BoT/TA transition then with the MTA Program for Action in '68... Then the city went bankrupt and only 63 St and Jamaica got actually built. DeBlasio just picked up the cause of the self evident need for a Utica subway.

i know that, but diblaz brought it back from the dead and anyway interborough is more important, as are several other projects like 2nd ave, so its down the list of cap projects.

mrnyc Sep 26, 2022 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg (Post 9742145)
I know a guy who works for the LIRR.

i know a guy? wait wat? wat kind of cryptic response is that?

are you saying you got a private tour? or was this an organized group tour anyone can try to join?

i mean if you cant say because someone will get in trouble fine, but otherwise come on — some of us would like to try to get in on that if its a regular thing.

jmecklenborg Sep 27, 2022 2:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnyc (Post 9742600)

are you saying you got a private tour? or was this an organized group tour anyone can try to join?

Yeah I imagine that you could call it a "private" tour. He told me to hit him up whenever I was in NYC so I emailed him a few weeks ago and we made it happen. I brought one of my friends from high school who lives in NYC. Unfortunately his kids weren't able to go as they aren't allowing anyone under age 18 to tour.




Quote:


i mean if you cant say because someone will get in trouble fine, but otherwise come on — some of us would like to try to get in on that if its a regular thing.

No I don't think it's a good idea to post his contact information here as I'd worry that a bunch of you would hit him up and start badgering him.

mrnyc Sep 27, 2022 3:18 PM

^ lol no one is asking for that kind of info, just wondering how you did this.

so ok if i got this right it sounds like a friend gave you a private tour -- it wasnt like a regular tour or political or contractor tour of the sites.

oh well -- cool you got in there.

mrnyc Sep 27, 2022 3:27 PM

MTA taps architects for Hochul’s $7 billion Penn Station renovation

By Kevin Duggan
Posted on September 21, 2022


The Metropolitan Transportation Authority has picked a group of architecture and engineering companies to design Governor Kathy Hochul’s $7 billion Penn Station renovation.

The MTA Board on Wednesday voted to approve hiring WSP, FXCollaborative, and British firm John McAslan and Partners for the job at a base contract of $58 million.

The latter firm is behind the overhaul of the King’s Cross Station in London, which would be a promising model for what New York is trying to do with the dark and cavernous Penn Station, said MTA Chairperson and CEO Janno Lieber at the agency’s Sept. 21 board meeting.


more:
https://www.amny.com/transit/mta-pen...design-hochul/

mrnyc Sep 30, 2022 4:21 PM

news about speeding up sir and delays on the kawasaki r211 replacements:



MTA looking for ways to speed up Staten Island Railway

Published: Sep. 21, 2022, 4:13 p.m.


more:
https://www.silive.com/news/2022/09/...d-railway.html

Gantz Sep 30, 2022 6:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 9742122)
A Utica subway has been a planning "priority" for 100 years. First with the original IRT Brooklyn Line provision then with the city's Independent plans of '29 and '39 then again after the war withthe BoT/TA transition then with the MTA Program for Action in '68... Then the city went bankrupt and only 63 St and Jamaica got actually built. DeBlasio just picked up the cause of the self evident need for a Utica subway.

Just because it was in planning for 100 years, doesn't mean it should be a top priority.
Even assuming you decided to extend subway in that area of Brooklyn, I think extending the Nostrand Ave line from Brooklyn college to Kings Plaza along Flatbush ave would be more of a priority considering it would probably cost at least only half as much as the Utica line extension AND you can build out a facility at Kings Plaza for the 2/5 trains to have proper turn arounds, increasing frequency of service on the whole line.

Busy Bee Sep 30, 2022 7:03 PM

^ Conceptual alignment for a Nostrand extension many years ago changed from a turn down Flatbush to Ave U (Kings Plaza) to extending it along Nostrand to Ave W. The current Flatbush terminal actually extends into the Nostrand/Flatbush intersection with a short tail track tunnel almost to the Bay Ridge cut so a veering off along Flatbush would likely require a complete reconstruction of the current station. Of course having both a Nostrand Ave extension AND a leg down Flatbush to Kings Plaza would be nice. One for 2 trains and one for 5 (or 3 depending on future service configurations).

Busy Bee Sep 30, 2022 7:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnyc (Post 9747265)
news about speeding up sir and delays on the kawasaki r211 replacements:



MTA looking for ways to speed up Staten Island Railway

Published: Sep. 21, 2022, 4:13 p.m.


more:
https://www.silive.com/news/2022/09/...d-railway.html

These Kawasaki R211 delays are bonkers.

On a side note did anyone read that absurd story about south shore Staten Islanders complaining about these radio poles? They talk about them like they are highrise buildings. People are so stupid.


All times are GMT. The time now is 7:54 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.