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UChicagoDomer Oct 31, 2008 1:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego (Post 3878648)

I think by Thanksgiving the weekend line cuts will be finished. Thanksgiving is also the target for completing the track replacement on the Lake and Wabash legs of the Loop. Wells and Van Buren track work will be done sometime in 2009.


Is the CTA going to re-start construction on the Blue Line on the 15mph stretch between Chicago and Grand inbound?

ChicagoChicago Oct 31, 2008 2:05 PM

I’m curious to know about the painting of the Wabash side of the Loop tracks. I am aware of the rehab work done on Wabash with sidewalk replacement and flower Boxes, etc. Does anyone know if it will be continued to the rest of the Loop tracks? It looks fantastic!

VivaLFuego Oct 31, 2008 4:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UChicagoDomer (Post 3884768)
Is the CTA going to re-start construction on the Blue Line on the 15mph stretch between Chicago and Grand inbound?

My understanding is that there is a strong desire to give the Blue Line subway the same treatment that the Red Line got this year: full replacement of all ties and tie plates for the entire length of the subway. The slow zone removal project a year ago in the Milwaukee subway, following the derailment, was rolled into the Block 37 contract to replace only the most deteriorated sections as an emergency measure, but as this new slow zone suggests there is plenty more that needs replacing.

The company line appears to be, however, that such a project is currently contingent on increased capital funding. Between the current track projects and the multitude of ongoing vehicle orders (both buses and railcars), CTA has reached the limit of how much of its future capital grant money can be borrowed against to pay for immediate improvements. So after the current round of track projects - O'Hare branch, Clark Jct/Brown Line, Loop El - track maintenance will basically revert to it's former role as sending crews out reactively to try to fix slow zones as they occur, rather than performing a full capital construction project to fix the track for good with a full replacement of old track components.

The prioritization of capital projects is a tricky question. My perception is that the current guiding principle is to use capital investment to specifically reduce operating costs, hence the heavy emphasis on accelerated and drastic replacement of the vehicle fleet to reduce maintenance costs, the latter of which come out of the operating budget. Replacement of slow zones is thus a priority only if the slow zone has the result of some combination of: 1) increasing the vehicle and labor requirement to meet the same frequency of service, because the service is slower, or 2) heavily suppressing ridership/fare revenue.

jjk1103 Oct 31, 2008 11:38 PM

....thanks Viva.....great info as usual !! :worship: :worship: :worship:

the urban politician Nov 2, 2008 8:34 PM

RFMA succeeds in getting Morgan Street station
By Patrick Butler | November 2008

“We heard the local businesses, and the City in turn heard us,” said Randolph/Fulton Market Association Director Roger Romanelli, elated after the Chicago Transit Authority’s (CTA) decision to put a Morgan Street stop on the Green Line elevated train route running along Lake Street.

Work will begin in March 2009. Because Lake Street will be kept open and the trains will continue running during construction, the job will take about 18 months. That is longer than Romanelli would like, but better late than never, he feels.

Romanelli said his 90-member business group, representing the area between Halsted Street, Hubbard Street, Ogden Avenue, and Washington Boulevard, had been lobbying since 2002 for a station to replace the old Halsted el stop that was closed in 1995 during the Green Line renovation.

The original Morgan station was torn down in 1948 when the area—and ridership—started slipping.

The decision to go ahead with the new station came out of a $2.5 million Chicago Department of
Transportation study that also led to creating the Pink Line; adding five new bus routes, including the Randolph Street Express; and enhancing existing el lines.

“The City is recognizing that businesses are here and their employees need to get to work affordably and in an environmentally gentle way,” said Romanelli.

The stakes, Romanelli said, are high.

“We’ve got 200 businesses employing 3,000 workers in the Randolph/Fulton Market district,” he said.

High price tag
Romanelli’s only concerns at this point are the reported $35 million price tag for the new station and that the money apparently will be coming out of the Kedzie Avenue TIF District, which Romanelli said has $38 million in the bank and collects $12 million a year in property taxes.

“It’s only your standard station with handicapped access,” Romanelli explained. “There will be elevators, and there will certainly have to be new structural supports. But $38 million?”

Chicago Department of Transportation (CDOT) spokeswoman Maria Castenada explained it is impossible” to tell how much the station will cost until officials approve a design and award bids later this year.

“But whatever the cost is, the cost is,” said Bob Wiggs, director of the 90-year-old West Loop
Community Organization (WLCO), which represents some 125 businesses, agencies, and organizations
in the area running from 600 north to 1600 south between Wells Street and California Avenue.

“It’s absolutely terrific,” Wiggs continued. “It’s long overdue. We’d really like to have some input on the finished design, and we know we will,” he said, adding that “Roger [Romanelli] deserves a lot of the credit. He really took the bull by the horns.”

The Morgan station will be midway between the existing Clinton Street (540 west) and Ashland Avenue (1600 west) stops, which are 1.5 miles from one another. The new station will have two entrances, bike racks, a concession stand, customer assistance kiosks, security cameras, and a six-car parking area translucent canopy, according to the WLCO.

Romanelli plans to ask CDOT and the CTA to be more specific about just how much the new stop is going to cost—but certainly not because he wants to stop the project.

“We want to talk about doing this in a thoughtful way,” Romanelli said. “It’s the biggest public works project we’ve had here since they rebuilt the Green Line. We’re going to ask for comparables from the Brown Line construction project,” he said.

Another concern, Romanelli added, is whether commuters would drive to the West Loop and take the CTA downtown after parking in spaces needed for employees and customers in what is still a highly industrial area where parking is at a premium.

Also competing for those precious parking spaces are patrons of the area’s trendy retailers and
restaurants as well as residents of the new housing sprouting all over just a few blocks south, according to local businesspeople Lee Friedheim of Cougle Commission Co. and Bill Bojeczko of Exel Corned Beef.

Positive impact
A new station at that location cannot help but have a positive impact on everyone, said Harpo
Studios’ Bill Becker. Harpo has many full- and part-time employees, audiences of up to 1,000 people a day for tapings of Oprah Winfrey’s shows, and scores of shoppers at the Oprah Store. Another local organization that will benefit is the Haymarket Center social service agency at 932 W. Washington Blvd., whose 500 employees and 18,000 clients overwhelmingly use mass transit.

“Communities tend to thrive when there’s transportation nearby,” Anthony Cole, the agency’s vice president, said.

“We have a 24-hour operation in the Randolph/Fulton Market area,” Romanelli noted. “We have businesses starting operations at 3 a.m., restaurants opening at 5 a.m., and residents and workers coming and going day and night. Halsted is a destination point for the 3,000 industrial workers in the morning. And in the afternoon, it’s a destination for restaurant-goers and art gallery patrons.”

Romanelli hailed the CTA’s green light for the Green Line’s newest station as a very “green thing to do,” noting that putting a station at Lake and Morgan Streets would help not only the local economy but the environment by taking more cars off the street.

“We’ve been talking green for many years,” he concluded. “This is another way to really engage companies about producing small carbon footprints. Hopefully those companies will develop public transit plans for their employees and even encourage them to use bikes.”

ardecila Nov 3, 2008 1:00 AM

^^ Sounds good. March 2009 seems a bit optimistic, seeing as how they don't even have a design yet. I hope the design is at least halfway-decent. There's an abandoned little gas station at the corner of Morgan and Lake. If the CTA buys it and uses it to construct the station house, then it would simplify construction and perhaps cost.

I just had an awesome thought - a Studio Gang L station? I'm sure their work is way out of budget for this project, and they have little experience dealing with the value-engineering necessities of governmental work, but it would be pretty awesome. Plus, it would reinforce the "green" mentality that these West Loopers have about their station, and even the line's name.

BVictor1 Nov 3, 2008 8:11 PM

http://www.suntimes.com/news/transpo...ride03.article

About that old train bridge. . .
BABY STEP | City would use it to link trains with Michigan Ave.


November 3, 2008

You know that old up-in-the-air railroad bridge over the Chicago River by Kinzie -- the one people like to use as a backdrop for funky, urban wedding portraits?

The bridge connects to a Union Pacific train tunnel running under the Apparel Center, the Merchandise Mart and other buildings east toward North Michigan Avenue.

http://media1.suntimes.com/multimedi...0.imageContent
Looking west on the old railroad tracks to the Kinzie Street bridge.
(Scott Stewart/Sun-Times)


For more than 20 years, the city has been talking about making use of that tunnel to create a transit link from Union Station and the Ogilvie Transportation Center to Michigan Avenue.

Now, the city is taking a baby step toward making the "Carroll Avenue" connection a reality. By year's end, the city's transportation department will issue a "request for proposals" for an "alternatives analysis" that will look not only at the Carroll Avenue site proposal, but also at other possibilities for a link from the West Loop to Michigan Avenue -- like using Illinois Street or Lower Wacker Drive.

Why does the city need to spend $1.6 million in federal money and a $400,000 city match on an alternatives analysis when officials already know they want to use Carroll Avenue?

"An alternatives analysis is required as part of the process," says Luann Hamilton, deputy commissioner for the division of project development for the Chicago Department of Transportation, a hurdle the city needs to clear to ask for federal "New Start" funds.

The city envisions a streetcar -- or an express bus -- picking up passengers at the train stations and carrying them north along Clinton. City officials would like to create an underpass under the Metra tracks so cars and buses wouldn't have to wait for the train.

The city would have to retrofit the old, raised bridge so it would carry the buses. Then, the bus or streetcar would be able to run along Carroll, without the interference of stop lights or other cars, to carry people straight east to Michigan Avenue, where they could get to shopping, Streeterville and the Northwestern Memorial Hospital complex.

Now, the way to get from the train stations to Michigan Avenue is by bus or taxi, going through traffic, or by a Chicago Water Taxi up the river during the months that it runs.

The city has discussed some version of the Carroll Avenue plan since at least 1986. The current version made it into the city's 2003 Central Area Plan, which talked up a range of transit and other improvements. A West Loop Transportation Complex along Clinton is part of that plan.

The total Carroll Avenue project would cost "tens of millions of dollars," and it certainly won't happen in this decade, Hamilton says. The alternatives analysis alone would take about 18 months.

While waiting to get the project going, the city has worked on protecting the right-of-way even as construction has gone on in the area, making sure the space is preserved. The Trump Tower, for instance, incorporated the opening into its design.

We'll check back in 2010 to see if the Carroll Avenue project finds the money to happen, or if that $2 million in analysis funding was spent in vain. Meanwhile, if you want photos in front of that bridge, take them now.

ChicagoChicago Nov 3, 2008 11:12 PM

Structural steel is on site for Wellington stop. It's going back up, if there was ever a doubt it wasn't.

I could have saved the CTA a few grand. What is the point of surveillance video monitors on the platforms? Armitage has it. I'm sure it isn't the only only one.

VivaLFuego Nov 4, 2008 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChicagoChicago (Post 3889749)
What is the point of surveillance video monitors on the platforms? Armitage has it. I'm sure it isn't the only only one.

Generally, monitors indicate a blind spot on the platform; the operator isn't able to see the entire train to safely operate the doors. Multiple monitors may be necessary if trains of different lengths (4 v. 6 v. 8-cars) have different berthing locations on the platform.

orulz Nov 4, 2008 1:18 AM

Good old FTA red tape. Is there any way Chicago could fund the Carroll Avenue project locally? That way they can build it how they like, no requirements for alternatives analysis and such.

The only map I've ever seen of the Caroll Ave transitway (here) shows the northbound segment following Canal Street until just north of Fulton Street where it cuts over to Clinton. First of all, where is the right-of-way to do that? Seems to me it would make more sense to use that little disjointed segment of Milwaukee between Lake and Fulton. Heck, even close it off to regular traffic for the transitway, because, who cares?

Grade separating Clinton and the railroad will probably be difficult, how do you do that and still maintain access to the condos? The blue line under Milwaukee probably complicates things further.

Hopefully they can refurbish and then reuse the old bridge, rather than replacing it or just bypassing it on Kinzie Street.

Lastly, does anybody happen to know where the right-of-way ends? It used to go all the way to navy pier, but obviously it doesn't go that far anymore. Does it pretty much dead end at the NBC tower?

ardecila Nov 4, 2008 7:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orulz (Post 3889987)
Good old FTA red tape. Is there any way Chicago could fund the Carroll Avenue project locally? That way they can build it how they like, no requirements for alternatives analysis and such.

The only map I've ever seen of the Caroll Ave transitway (here) shows the northbound segment following Canal Street until just north of Fulton Street where it cuts over to Clinton. First of all, where is the right-of-way to do that? Seems to me it would make more sense to use that little disjointed segment of Milwaukee between Lake and Fulton. Heck, even close it off to regular traffic for the transitway, because, who cares?

Grade separating Clinton and the railroad will probably be difficult, how do you do that and still maintain access to the condos? The blue line under Milwaukee probably complicates things further.

Hopefully they can refurbish and then reuse the old bridge, rather than replacing it or just bypassing it on Kinzie Street.

Lastly, does anybody happen to know where the right-of-way ends? It used to go all the way to navy pier, but obviously it doesn't go that far anymore. Does it pretty much dead end at the NBC tower?

1. You don't usually turn down free money. The Feds may impose some regulations on the process, but there are all sorts of tricks you can use to make the numbers good enough for Federal approval and do what you planned originally. The financial aid from the Feds is usually worth being patient. There are other funding mechanisms. For example, CTA could just sell bonds to pay for the new construction... but they don't have enough money to pay them back. They barely break even as it is, in a good year. They could also boost sales taxes to pay for the new construction (in a county with the highest sales tax in the nation). To paraphrase Winston Churchill, Federal New Starts funding is the worst way to pay for a transit line, except for all the other ways.

2. The alignment in that map is general... It's my understanding that the Transitway would use Milwaukee.

3. Clinton can be grade-separated fairly easily... the condo buildings there have been designed with entrances that don't face onto Clinton. Canal would be much more difficult, so it won't be grade-separated.

4. The right-of-way used to go to about Columbus, where the railroad tracks ran along Illinois Street, sharing the same space as cars. Back when it was built, heavy traffic wasn't really a problem in Streeterville...

ChicagoChicago Nov 5, 2008 3:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego (Post 3889934)
Generally, monitors indicate a blind spot on the platform; the operator isn't able to see the entire train to safely operate the doors. Multiple monitors may be necessary if trains of different lengths (4 v. 6 v. 8-cars) have different berthing locations on the platform.

Thanks for the info. I didn't know that's what they were for. I'm not necessarily in agreement that it's needed, as this stop is no less obscured than any other stop on the brown line. I could see that argument being made at Chicago where the stop does bend somewhat, but Armitage is a straight line. Still seems like a waste of money.

orulz Nov 6, 2008 3:25 AM

Thanks for the answers, ardecila. The Carroll Avenue transitway is a pretty creative idea. Of course I'm pulling for streetcars rather than buses, because it would just be awesome to have streetcars roaming the streets of Chicago again, but either way it promises to be a popular service.

How about a south loop extension of the transitway? Rather than turning around at Jackson, stay on the Clinton/Canal pair as far as 14th. From there, curve east, and take either the St. Charles Air Line bridge or B&O bridge over the river. Follow the (soon to be abandoned) SCAL through the south loop, to the museums campus, Soldier Field, and McCormick Place. There might be other, better uses for the SCAL, but this is just one possibility.

denizen467 Nov 6, 2008 9:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 3890366)
3. Clinton can be grade-separated fairly easily... the condo buildings there have been designed with entrances that don't face onto Clinton. Canal would be much more difficult, so it won't be grade-separated.

Is grade separation of Clinton (at Metra/Amtrak, I'm assuming) necessary for the transitway?
And if so, then over or under?

ardecila Nov 6, 2008 5:38 PM

^^ Yes, it's pretty necessary. Trains, both Metra and Amtrak, often block the crossing for minutes at a time as they wait for a track in the station, or they wait for clearance to leave. During rush hour, there are hundreds of trains coming out of that station, and crossing the tracks is nearly impossible. Cars can easily turn around and use the overpass at Desplaines, but that's a big inconvenience for pedestrians.

An underpass would make the most sense, so I assume that will be what is built. An overpass would block windows on the adjacent condo buildings and project traffic noise farther, although it would be cheaper.

ardecila Nov 6, 2008 5:42 PM

In other news, Valerie Jarrett has been tapped by Obama for some unspecific position in the Obama administration. She's also a good contender for his vacant Senate seat.

Either way, Obama will be putting a former director of the CTA into a very influential Washington position. Secretary of Transportation is possible, and so is Secretary of HUD.

denizen467 Nov 7, 2008 6:04 AM

^^ Ok, so assuming that rail, even if it's LRT, requires a shallower incline than buses could tolerate, how close to Fulton must the slope begin, I wonder?

Also, the incline on the north side would presumably have to be a curving trench that returns to grade as it reaches Canal - correct?

But maybe the most interesting question is whether the Carroll Bridge is too low to have its down position as the default. Would this prevent tour boat clearance? (BVic has probably thought about this a lot.) If it does, will the answer be to rebuild the bridge slightly higher?

ChicagoChicago Nov 7, 2008 9:24 PM

Can anyone tell me why the CTA uses 3 different colors of paint on the L structures? I’ve seen off-white, manila-yellow, and burgundy. I would certainly understand if they decided to use different colors for different areas, but those are 3 colors just inside the Loop! Is it too much to ask for some uniformity?

Chicago3rd Nov 7, 2008 9:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChicagoChicago (Post 3898271)
Can anyone tell me why the CTA uses 3 different colors of paint on the L structures? I’ve seen off-white, manila-yellow, and burgundy. I would certainly understand if they decided to use different colors for different areas, but those are 3 colors just inside the Loop! Is it too much to ask for some uniformity?

What part of the el structure (assuming you mean bottom portion) is off white? The loop is that gold color, but it is being changed, at least on Wacker Drive to burgundy to match the bridges....whichs means CTA is way a head of you.....

ChicagoChicago Nov 7, 2008 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicago3rd (Post 3898328)
What part of the el structure (assuming you mean bottom portion) is off white? The loop is that gold color, but it is being changed, at least on Wacker Drive to burgundy to match the bridges....whichs means CTA is way a head of you.....

LOL @ CTA being ahead of anyone!

I'm aware that they repainted the Wabash portion of the L structure to match the bridges. Part of the structure on Wabash is white, in particular the beams that support the platforms and the platforms themselves.

I’m just curious why they weren’t uniform to begin with. From what I’ve read, the painting of the L was part of the Wabash Avenue Improvement Project and not really the CTA’s choice.

ardecila Nov 7, 2008 11:01 PM

Yeah, basically. Certain pieces of metal weren't painted because they would have interfered with the operation of the stations above.

CDOT was only allowed to paint portions of the structure that are accessible from the street, and only on the condition that the painting process wouldn't affect the trains or passengers above.

@ denizen467 - rail is pretty much out of the question... CTA has already decided to go ahead with a BRT program on 4 different streets, so you can bet they will be using BRT here as well. Using BRT also gives the flexibility to run bus lines to different destinations in Streeterville... one to Navy Pier, one to Northwestern, and one to Water Tower. Since most of this is grade separated, it will approach "true" BRT. The route will probably turn sharply east right after the Clinton underpass, and then run underneath the Metra viaduct alongside the Cassidy Tires warehouse to get to the Kinzie St bridge.

denizen467 Nov 7, 2008 11:36 PM

^ So RIP light rail hopes! :(
If it facilitates an array of destinations throughout Streeterville then it's worth it I guess though.

What's known about the clearance under the Carroll St Bridge?

Mr Downtown Nov 8, 2008 2:40 AM

Carroll Street bridge????

denizen467 Nov 8, 2008 4:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 3898844)
Carroll Street bridge????

Well what the heck is it called then. The rail bridge that is always raised just south of Kinzie. Both west of there and east of there this alignment is called Carroll Street. When BRT starts running there this bridge will presumably carry Carroll Street (as opposed to just a rail line), ergo, Carroll "Street" Bridge. Mister D smarty pants, share with us your bridge name omniscience.

(Disclaimer: on my third beer now)

ardecila Nov 8, 2008 8:58 AM

Technically, the bridge is called the Kinzie Street bridge, which is confusing, because Kinzie Street (the actual street, for cars and trucks) has its own bridge about 200 feet to the north.

And FYI, I've also had several beers...

Mr Downtown Nov 8, 2008 8:10 PM

Ah, now I understand that you mean the railroad bridge over the river. Usually just referred to as "Chicago & North Western Ry. Bridge over the North Branch of the Chicago River near Kinzie Street," though apparently the railroad inventory number was N-1511. Actually, Carroll Street Bridge wouldn't be a bad name—but Carroll Street never crossed the river.

The vertical clearance under the existing span is only 6.5 feet.

denizen467 Nov 9, 2008 7:35 AM

^ & ^^ Ok, that's edifying to finally have info on this mysterious bridge (after many many years of prowling this city's maps and streets). But also, those names aren't super clear or useful. So as soon as non-rail vehicles become able to traverse this bridge, I say "Carroll Street Bridge" is one good option.

On the other hand, 6.5 feet??
Does this mean the bridge must be rebuilt or else this transitway plan will have to be routed across the river at Kinzie Street?

Mr Downtown Nov 10, 2008 3:40 AM

The most likely scenario, I think, is that the railroad bridge (now a Chicago Landmark) would be reset at a higher level à la the Kinzie Street Bridge.

honte Nov 10, 2008 4:18 AM

^ I agree, although it will be amusing and amazing to see this done.

I wish similar adaptive reuse could be found for the historic Division Street Bascule bridges (for autos), currently slated for demo.

denizen467 Nov 10, 2008 5:48 AM

^^ Excellent. So the Kinzie Street Bridge was re-set from a lower position? How long ago, and do you know whether there are any pics or articles about it?

^ Last week an alumnus donated a record $300 million to the U of C graduate school of business. IMHO, a business school is not exactly an institution where a giant investment will reap tremendous dividends for society in the way of knowledge, research, inventions, culture, etc. ... It's really a staggering amount of money - if only donors like this would, even if in a small way, turn their philanthropic energies to recognizing the importance of historic preservation, we could, for a fraction of that money, save many cultural treasures like these bridges.

honte Nov 10, 2008 2:53 PM

^ There are some people who do support the cause, like Driehaus, but not enough by far.

The City put out a lame request that any other municipality needing a bridge come get the Division Street bridges, but this has been ineffective. Besides, I'd like to see them creatively reused here in Chicago, rather than carted off to someplace more respectful.

orulz Nov 10, 2008 2:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by honte (Post 3902268)
^ I agree, although it will be amusing and amazing to see this done.

I wish similar adaptive reuse could be found for the historic Division Street Bascule bridges (for autos), currently slated for demo.

How far north does the city plan on keeping the movable bridges? The replacement of old bascules with new fixed spans seems to be creeping further and further south, which is a terrible shame, not really because it limits taller ships, but more because these bridges are just cool relics of a bygone era.

the urban politician Nov 10, 2008 3:59 PM

California and other places are aggressively expanding rail/transit improvements, while Illinois' State Govt is gridlocked.

This is so beyond irritating.

VivaLFuego Nov 10, 2008 4:54 PM

^ In fairness, last year Illinois did approve hundreds of millions in annual new funding for public transit throughout Chicagoland. Of course we still desperately need a capital plan, but it's worth pointing out that in the end this region did step up it's investment to keep service (no thanks to Blago, of course).

Mr Downtown Nov 10, 2008 5:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orulz (Post 3902668)
How far north does the city plan on keeping the movable bridges?

Division Street is no longer required to open. Federal Register May 10, 2002 (Volume 67, Number 91) Page 31727-31730.

As for resetting bridges at higher elevations, this has now been done for both Cermak Road and Kinzie Street, both within the last decade. Both were essentially disassembled and then put back together. Cermak Road was widened and so reworked that it's hard to call it the original 1906 bridge.

I wonder how much the North Branch water level can vary? It seems like the water level could be allowed to drop a couple of feet one winter day, a couple of barges with cribbing could be nudged under the C&NW bridge span (in the down position), then the locks opened until the water level rose a couple feet above normal. Then the span would be supported by shore cribbing until the trunnion could be reset at the new level. These are the sorts of things you start thinking about after reading turn-of-the-century engineering journals. Similar things were done all over Chicago as the waterways were widened and improved.

honte Nov 10, 2008 7:52 PM

^ It's a great idea, this.

ardecila Nov 11, 2008 4:47 AM

Unfortunately, such a sledgehammer-and-fly solution is bound to have some undesirable effects on the ecosystem of the river... I hate to be a downer, though, and I really envy the creative thinking of those old engineers.

I'm sure, if the bridge is ever refurbished, it will simply be thoroughly documented, cut up, and put back together, with new pilings drilled. For all of our sakes, I really hope the foundation contractors are careful - especially in this area... :haha:

As far as the Division Street bridges go - is it possible that they could be re-used at Taylor and Polk Streets, where the city specifically needs new bridges? I brought this idea up awhile ago, although I'm not sure anybody commented on it. I assume the bridges no longer work at Division because they are 2-lane. 2-lane bridges, however, are exactly what's needed at the bridge sites in the South Loop.

honte Nov 11, 2008 5:33 AM

^ I can't see the city spending money on two-lane bridges... I'm sure they'd rather put in wider bridges and just have a large shoulder for the time being. Also I think those spans are going to need to be elevated to allow for the grade change at Canal?

The idea I had for Division Street was a simple one - use one bridge for eastbound, one for westbound. There is lots of vacant land around Halsted and Division near the river if Division needs to be widened somewhat to allow this.

VivaLFuego Nov 11, 2008 5:42 AM

Wouldn't it be nice if a 4-lane viaduct with operable bridge already existed crossing the river near Division/Halsted destined for general points westward, including the expressway? Too bad prior generations never built one (replete with breathtaking art deco reliefs) for us. Why, had there been such a piece of infrastructure providing capacity from Near North/Old Town to the west and the expressway, it might not have been deemed necessary to bulldoze 50% of a commercial district to widen North Avenue into 4 lanes. Really a shame there was never such an option contemplated.

Oh, wait.

denizen467 Nov 11, 2008 8:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 3902962)
Both were essentially disassembled and then put back together. Cermak Road was widened and so reworked that it's hard to call it the original 1906 bridge.

So for Cermak it was almost like just building a new bridge using the old one's parts? Still, if that's what it takes to save those Goose Island bridges, especially if lengthening/widening etc. is needed so they can be used in another location, it's ok with me.

OhioGuy Nov 11, 2008 2:04 PM

Anyone know if all four tracks will be open at Fullerton by Thanksgiving? It looks quite close to being finished.

honte Nov 11, 2008 2:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denizen467 (Post 3904561)
So for Cermak it was almost like just building a new bridge using the old one's parts? Still, if that's what it takes to save those Goose Island bridges, especially if lengthening/widening etc. is needed so they can be used in another location, it's ok with me.

Well, that's what really irks me about the Division bridges. The city advertises to outsiders, "Hey, come take these perfectly reusable bridges away piece-by-piece and make us look green," but they can't figure out a way just to reuse them here?

VivaLFuego Nov 11, 2008 4:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhioGuy (Post 3904703)
Anyone know if all four tracks will be open at Fullerton by Thanksgiving? It looks quite close to being finished.

Not sure about the exact date at Fullerton, but full 4-track operation in the whole corridor (full service levels, and probably moving Purple back to the inner loop) is scheduled to resume right around the new year.

ChicagoChicago Nov 11, 2008 4:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego (Post 3904899)
Not sure about the exact date at Fullerton, but full 4-track operation in the whole corridor (full service levels, and probably moving Purple back to the inner loop) is scheduled to resume right around the new year.

Purple back to the inner loop??? Would it skip Wellington and Diversey then? Would it just bypass Armitage?

woodrow Nov 11, 2008 4:49 PM

^^ No. Usually, the Purple Line runs the same tracks as the Brown Line from Belmont to the Loop, then runs inner track. WIth all the various track projects, they had it run outer loop like Brown Line. I hope it will return to inner track. I will ask my super high-up CTA friend this weekend.

ChicagoChicago Nov 11, 2008 5:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodrow (Post 3904967)
^^ No. Usually, the Purple Line runs the same tracks as the Brown Line from Belmont to the Loop, then runs inner track. WIth all the various track projects, they had it run outer loop like Brown Line. I hope it will return to inner track. I will ask my super high-up CTA friend this weekend.

Ok. Inner LOOP. I was thinking inner TRACK on the 4 track red/brown. Interesting, I've only been riding the purple since 2006, so I've never seen it run inside.

OhioGuy Nov 11, 2008 5:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego (Post 3904899)
Not sure about the exact date at Fullerton, but full 4-track operation in the whole corridor (full service levels, and probably moving Purple back to the inner loop) is scheduled to resume right around the new year.

It's certainly exciting to be nearing the return of 4 track operation. Looking at both Belmont & Fullerton, it definitely looks as though Fullerton is quite a bit further along than Belmont. So that's what has me wondering if that station might possibly open by the end of the month with Belmont by the end of next month. Or at the very least I'm assuming Fullerton will open at some point ahead of Belmont.

ShawnP. Nov 11, 2008 6:07 PM

Chicago to get high speed network
 
I just read that Chicago could be the hub of a high speed rail network. It would only take 3 hours to get to St. Louis. This beats the fluctuating gas prices and agony of traffic congestion. http://eastgatevillage.wordpress.com...speed-network/

MayorOfChicago Nov 11, 2008 6:11 PM

I know a lot of people who would be very happy if they returned the Purple Line to the inner track.

The west loop workers would get their direct access to north bound trains back, and Clark/Lake and Merch Mart wouldn't have the huge crush of people from the west loop wandering up because they don't want to sit on the brown line all the way around the loop.

ChicagoChicago Nov 11, 2008 6:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MayorOfChicago (Post 3905147)
I know a lot of people who would be very happy if they returned the Purple Line to the inner track.

The west loop workers would get their direct access to north bound trains back, and Clark/Lake and Merch Mart wouldn't have the huge crush of people from the west loop wandering up because they don't want to sit on the brown line all the way around the loop.

I'm one of those wanderers... We're like cattle. Anybody ever noticed the stairs at Merch Mart have been worn down from all the traffic? It's kind of funny, but that may be the most used stairwell in Chicago.


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