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sammyg Aug 25, 2012 6:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 5810199)
The Brown/Orange combo would be the obvious choice for a third 24-hour line.

Isn't there an enormous disparity in ridership between the two lines? You'd have packed trains running from Kimball south to the loop, or nearly-empty ones down to Midway.

Beta_Magellan Aug 25, 2012 7:34 PM

There’s also a frequency disparity, but I could see every other train going to Midway—you could potentially have a Kimball-Loop Brown and Kimball-Midway Orange Line. As is they’re already running near-empty trains to Midway during the morning peak (and vice-versa in the afternoon). There might be some advantage in giving the Ravenswood Branch access to the Midway Yards, too (I think they do store some Brown Line trains there now, actually).

Given the overlap with the Red Line until the Belmont, relative quietness of much of the Ravenswood Branch post-1AM, and near-complete quietness/pedestrian hostility of a lot the Orange Line route I don’t think more 24 hour service is necessarily justified at this point.

emathias Aug 25, 2012 7:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammyg (Post 5810522)
Isn't there an enormous disparity in ridership between the two lines? You'd have packed trains running from Kimball south to the loop, or nearly-empty ones down to Midway.

They're not well-matched. The Brown Line is evenly matched to the Red Line Dan Ryan. That's not gonna get matched up anytime soon, though.

untitledreality Aug 26, 2012 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammyg (Post 5810522)
Isn't there an enormous disparity in ridership between the two lines? You'd have packed trains running from Kimball south to the loop, or nearly-empty ones down to Midway.

Well, if we are going to think about it that way... lets compare it to the other big lines.

Howard Red 2011- 40.85m
Dan Ryan Red 2011 - 16.7m

Howard carries 2.44x the riders


O'Hare Blue 2011 - 23.58m
Forest Park Blue 2011 - 9.2m

O'Hare carries 2.56x the riders


so....

Brown 2011 - 17.53m
Orange 2011 - 8.22m

Brown carries 2.13x the riders... seems to be on par with the other big lines, maybe even moreso than these numbers indicate due to the 6 stations whose numbers are shared with the Purple Express.

VivaLFuego Aug 26, 2012 7:05 PM

<edited>It's not just an issue of total ridership; other considerations include but aren't limited to:

1. Demand at the peak flow point at each time period
2. Terminal to terminal running time, which in turn dictates the car/manpower requirements to meet a headway sufficient to accommodate point 1.
3. Yard/terminal capacity commensurate to 1 and 2. If one puts aside the terminal consideration, there is no need to "balance" the ridership demands of two through-routed branches, since it ultimately these pairings would have close to zero impact on your systemwide vehicle and manpower requirement. However, if the lines are heavily imbalanced in demand, then both terminals would need sufficient capacity to hold and perform light maintenance on cars to avoid major unnecessary deadheading.

ardecila Aug 26, 2012 7:53 PM

Couldn't you solve the imbalance with a well-designed and precisely dispatched holding track for short turns?

The only problem is that you need some flexibility in the location of the short turn to allow for growth. Chinatown and 35th should really have the frequency of the North Main and State St Subway, and Medical Center/Western really should have the frequency of the O'Hare branch, but they cannot because of the short turn placement on the Red and Blue Lines.

Segun Aug 26, 2012 8:27 PM

I've always considered TODs near the Orange Line, but how feasible would they be? The stations are near some of the ugliest (not for us urban pioneers, but for the GP) areas in Chicago. There would have to be some serious investment in the area, with new greenspace, and new connections to the street grid. There are too many stations in which a commuter has to walk 20 minutes or so to the North just to get to the closest commercial area, and the Stevenson is a psychological barrier to the South.

However, if they were to build a theme park on the South Branch, I wouldn't complain. :D

Chicago Shawn Aug 26, 2012 9:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by untitledreality (Post 5810124)
Interesting tidbit resulting from the weekend track work in the Loop:



I would be interested to see how well this configuration works since it has always been considered a possible method of consolidating the two lines

Based on the 2011 numbers the Brown/Orange would make for 25.7mm boardings with a ton of room to grow along the Orange alignment and possible extended hours... not too shabby

The 6:17am weekday departure from Midway Airport already runs as a combined route, turning into a brown line train at Roosevelt. I ride this run occasionally.

The Orange Line also has been getting noticeably busier over the past couple of years. The rush hour runs in the peak directions are always crush loaded.

Rizzo Aug 27, 2012 4:42 AM

Rush Hour rides on the orange line are awfully crowded. Not as bad as the blue or red, but it's getting there.

Mr Downtown Aug 27, 2012 5:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segun (Post 5811276)
There are too many [Orange Line] stations in which a commuter has to walk 20 minutes or so to the North just to get to the closest commercial area, and the Stevenson is a psychological barrier to the South.

Huh? Have you ever ridden the Orange Line and looked out the window? There are big grocery-anchored shopping centers at Pulaski, Kedzie, 35th & Archer, and at Ashland. And the Stevenson is to the north anywhere west of Ashland.

emathias Aug 27, 2012 8:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 5812042)
Huh? Have you ever ridden the Orange Line and looked out the window? There are big grocery-anchored shopping centers at Pulaski, Kedzie, 35th & Archer, and at Ashland. And the Stevenson is to the north anywhere west of Ashland.

Yeah - the Ashland stop might be harder than others to really integrate into a walkable fabric, but the rest, while not as perfectly pedestrian as the Brown Line, are certainly capable of being TODized.

Marcu Aug 27, 2012 8:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emathias (Post 5809769)
The demand isn't for housing, it's for access to downtown at a reasonable price. It doesn't matter if you have 100,000 square miles of open space, if only 10 square miles are walkable to transit, then those 10 square miles will always and forever hold a market premium over the rest. If race factors in at all, it's racism against locating in certain areas, not racial politics.

The 10 square miles that you describe will not command a sufficient market premium if the surrounding area is open prairie. People will just drive and park nearby. Regarding race, any local zoning/decision usually has some aspect of keeping/moving out "undesirables" from the area on the agenda. I don't see how we can have any discussion about local politics without taking this into account. I guess my point is that I don't see why we are even discussing expanding TOD to underutilized parts of the s/sw sides. This is a conversation that's premature by at least a decade. We can barely hold on to the people and building stock that's there now.

emathias Aug 27, 2012 8:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcu (Post 5812239)
The 10 square miles that you describe will not command a sufficient market premium if the surrounding area is open prairie. People will just drive and park nearby. Regarding race, any local zoning/decision usually has some aspect of keeping/moving out "undesirables" from the area on the agenda. I don't see how we can have any discussion about local politics without taking this into account. I guess my point is that I don't see why we are even discussing expanding TOD to underutilized parts of the s/sw sides. This is a conversation that's premature by at least a decade. We can barely hold on to the people and building stock that's there now.

The people who are leaving are the drivers, or those who aspire to be drivers. The people who are coming of their own volition are people who may drive sometimes and can certainly afford a car, but would prefer to live a walking and transit lifestyle.

As a city, you cater to those who are leaving at the expense of those who are coming to your own peril.

Mr Downtown Aug 28, 2012 2:38 AM

A time-lapse video of the new South Shore Line bridge being moved into place over Torrence Ave. Saturday. Gives a whole new meaning to "moveable bridge."

Video Link

Segun Aug 28, 2012 4:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 5812042)
Huh? Have you ever ridden the Orange Line and looked out the window?

I usually have my eyes closed. Too many Snarks and Grumkins.

ardecila Aug 28, 2012 4:13 AM

Bridge moving is awesome. This is the first new long-span truss structure I've seen in a very long time, at least in the Midwest.

Nexis4Jersey Aug 28, 2012 4:31 AM

I Wasn't aware that they still built them , but its nice that they do...adds some variety..

Rizzo Aug 28, 2012 5:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey (Post 5812691)
I Wasn't aware that they still built them , but its nice that they do...adds some variety..

I think because it's incredibly long span they opted for a truss design. Though I've seen long span concrete box girder bridges for passenger rail.

CTA Gray Line Aug 28, 2012 5:37 AM

Chicago bus operator selects Cubic for open payment system
 
http://www.contactlessnews.com/2012/...payment-system


Cubic Transportation Systems has been approved by the Chicago Transit Authority (CTA) to deliver the agency's open standards fare system (OSFS) to suburban bus operator Pace.

The open payment system will enable CTA and Pace customers to pay their transit fares with any contactless bank card that conforms to industry standards.

NFC-enabled mobile phones with bank cards residing on them will also be accepted in the system.


CTA rail station turnstiles and CTA and Pace buses will have card readers that
accept payment with a simple tap of the card, or NFC-enabled mobile phone.

For customers without a bankcard, contactless reloadable prepaid cards will be sold at more than 2,500 retail stores and vending machines across Chicago and neighboring communities.

The deal expands the largest North America transit industry public private
partnership for fare collection systems and services, increasing Cubic's
original contract by approximately $50 million to $508.9 million.

CTA Gray Line Aug 28, 2012 5:46 AM

95th Street Terminal Improvements
 
http://www.transitchicago.com/95thTerminal/


95th Street Terminal Improvements

In 2014, construction will begin on the 95th Street Terminal

Improvement Project, a $240 million project (projected cost) that will expand and greatly improve the 95th/Dan Ryan station
(the south terminal of the CTA Red Line)—a project that will bring significant improvements to a station that is a vital part of the South Side.

The CTA is soliciting feedback from customers who use the terminal. Two open houses are scheduled in September.

This is the public's chance to tell us how the terminal can be improved as we begin the design phase.



Tuesday, September 11, 2012 5:00 to 7:00 p.m.

Harlan High School

9652 S. Michigan Avenue

This location is served by: Red Line (95th/Dan Ryan) and CTA Bus #34, #103,
#106, and #119.


Thursday, September 13, 2012 6:00 to 8:00 p.m.

Palmer Park

201 E. 111th Street

This location is served by: CTA Bus #34, #119, #353; Pace Bus #353; and Metra Electric 111th Street (Pullman).


Built in 1969 and designed by architects at the famed Chicago architecture firm Skidmore, Owings & Merrill, the station serves as both a train terminal and an integrated bus terminal.

The station is one of CTA's busiest, with 24-hour Red Line service and over 1,000 CTA and Pace bus trips on a typical weekday.
These buses connect Far South Side communities to the CTA rail network. There are roughly 300,000 people who live within walking
distance of the CTA bus routes serving the 95th/Dan Ryan Terminal.

The station has seen a number of changes and improvements since it opened, including the addition of an elevator and other accessibility improvements, but
nothing at the scale of what is proposed for this project.

A brand new terminal would include a different design providing a better layout for customers accessing the terminal from 95th Street as well as boarding buses and trains once inside. New amenities will also improve comfort and the overall transit experience.


What is the purpose of this project?

The 95th/Dan Ryan station is a critical piece of the CTA's Red Line.

It connects Far South Side communities, to job centers throughout the region and serves as a transit gateway for the South Side and suburbs.

The rail terminal is located in the median of the I-94 Dan Ryan Expressway and the bus terminal flanks the expressway.

The station site is highly constrained, bound by 95th Street on the South, State Street to the east, and Lafayette Avenue to the west, causing bus delays and traffic conflicts, due to limited space. In the current terminal there are only 20 bus bays which must accommodate dozens of CTA, Pace, Greyhound and Indian Trails intercity buses.

The station does not currently have direct access to and from 95th Street, a
problem that requires pedestrians to use terminal areas for street access,
posing safety risks.

Improvements are also needed to better serve existing high volume of riders,
provide safer passenger access to buses and the train station, and expand
passenger facilities that will lead to a modern, safe and pedestrian-friendly
transit center with fewer delays and shorter travel times.


What work will be done?

While specific details on the expansion are still being discussed, major
renovations and expansions to the station house are aimed at providing more
space and improve the walking flow of passengers, with new or expanded bus
terminal facilities—as well as Red Line platform improvements. Here are some
basic features:

New station building with bright, airy spaces and clear sightlines
Expanded platforms to provide more room and easier flow of passengers

Station will be largely enclosed in glass for maximum light and protection from
the elements

Wider bus lanes and increased spacing between bus bays to reduce congestion

Wider sidewalks and waiting areas in bus terminal for increased passenger
comfort and safety

Sound panels at platform level to provide a more comfortable, less noisy space

Additional escalators and elevators

Additional space in front of ticket vending machines and fare gates


How is the project to be funded?

The projected cost of the project is $240 million. Funding would come from the following sources:

$12 million from a TIGER grant
$80 million from a TIFIA loan (low interest federal loan)
$10 million from a Federal Bus Livability Grant
$60 million in federal funds
$50 million in State of Illinois funds
$28 million from CTA bond proceeds


More information

Details about the final design and plan will be presented to the community and
posted here as the planning for this project progresses. Construction is
expected to begin in 2014, after the Red Line South Track Rehabilitation Project is completed.

Please email your comments and questions about this project to:

95thTerminal@transitchicago.com.


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