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-   -   NEW YORK | 270 Park Ave | 1,388 FT | 58 FLOORS (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=232215)

antinimby Mar 19, 2018 10:00 PM

Off by about 10 blocks. LOL.

Zapatan Mar 20, 2018 12:54 AM

If they're actually going to knock down an existing 700+ foot skyscraper to build this one I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up quite a bit higher than 1200ft/70 floors. Seems like it would need to be at least double the height to be worth it at all when you take into account all the extra money for demolition etc.

Super exciting nonetheless :)

CanesFan Mar 20, 2018 1:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_denizen (Post 8098618)
I wonder if someone will find a little dancing, singing frog in the demolition debris.

This might be the best comment I've read on this website.

NYguy Mar 20, 2018 2:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zapatan (Post 8125612)
If they're actually going to knock down an existing 700+ foot skyscraper to build this one I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up quite a bit higher than 1200ft/70 floors. Seems like it would need to be at least double the height to be worth it at all when you take into account all the extra money for demolition etc.

Super exciting nonetheless :)


If they stick with the 70 - 75 floor plan, it would likely be higher than 1,200 ft. But it's not simply about the height for Chase (or the city). It's about the amount of new office space they can build here, which would be about 2.5 msf, or about a million sf more than the existing building. It will be tailor made and designed with specific needs of the company that will occupy it. You can't put a price on some things. This tower will stand as a symbol of Chase.

One thing I do notice is that they keep saying this is the first new office tower to come out of the rezoning. That's only partially true, and on a technicality. One Vanderbilt (the four block Vanderbilt corridor) was taken out of the midtown east rezoning so that development could get approved and move forward sooner while the larger neighborhood got rezoned. One Vanderbilt is really the first.

There was another Chase tower that was the first modern office tower of it's district back when it was built though...
https://www.som.com/projects/one_chase_manhattan_plaza

Amanita Mar 20, 2018 4:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 8125380)
Is it bad when an architecture magazine can't point out the correct tower? This is at least the second time I've seen the building misidentified.



https://cdnassets.hw.net/dims4/GG/7e...ior-aerial.jpg

LOL that's 90 Park Avenue. Cute little Roth-scraper, but most assuredly NOT 270 Park!

pico44 Mar 20, 2018 1:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMKeynes (Post 8124739)
245 is the worst building on Park. I'd like to see it get torn down.


Now THAT is a building that should be replaced. 270 deserves to be saved. It's a damn good looking building. I wouldn't call it a masterpiece but it's a fine representation of the style, designed by one of the greatest architects ever to have lived. Crawford said that there are only two modernist Park Avenue buildings (Seagrams and Lever) worthy of preservation and he is wrong. PepsiCo is a masterpiece. 280 is gorgeous. And certainly 270.

JMKeynes Mar 20, 2018 2:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pico44 (Post 8125991)
Now THAT is a building that should be replaced. 270 deserves to be saved. It's a damn good looking building. I wouldn't call it a masterpiece but it's a fine representation of the style, designed by one of the greatest architects ever to have lived. Crawford said that there are only two modernist Park Avenue buildings (Seagrams and Lever) worthy of preservation and he is wrong. PepsiCo is a masterpiece. 280 is gorgeous. And certainly 270.

I wouldn't be surprised if JPMC buys 245 to make a campus.

chefforbz Mar 20, 2018 2:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 8125697)
If they stick with the 70 - 75 floor plan, it would likely be higher than 1,200 ft. But it's not simply about the height for Chase (or the city). It's about the amount of new office space they can build here, which would be about 2.5 msf, or about a million sf more than the existing building. It will be tailor made and designed with specific needs of the company that will occupy it. You can't put a price on some things. This tower will stand as a symbol of Chase.

One thing I do notice is that they keep saying this is the first new office tower to come out of the rezoning. That's only partially true, and on a technicality. One Vanderbilt (the four block Vanderbilt corridor) was taken out of the midtown east rezoning so that development could get approved and move forward sooner while the larger neighborhood got rezoned. One Vanderbilt is really the first.

There was another Chase tower that was the first modern office tower of it's district back when it was built though...
https://www.som.com/projects/one_chase_manhattan_plaza

Do we know how large this plot is in relation to the plots at hudson yards for 50 hudson and The Spiral? If I remember correctly both of those towers are 2.5 million sq ft or so. That would give us an idea of size and shape. I have a feeling that this plot is a bit smaller and would yield a tower a bit taller than those two behemoths. Either way, even a 1000 foot box would be quite a presence on park avenue.

The Best Forumer Mar 20, 2018 2:52 PM

I hope this gets built.

Dac150 Mar 21, 2018 1:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMKeynes (Post 8126028)
I wouldn't be surprised if JPMC buys 245 to make a campus.

I think the purpose of the 270 redevelopment is to consolidate all area operations under one roof - JPMC has operations scattered throughout the vicinity. Having said that, I'm curious as to what will become of 383 Madison, which currently houses the investment bank. Will JPMC sell it? …

245 will likely stick around; larger floor plates and can house trading operations within the podium (which SocGen currently occupies). 270 is a very special case which I doubt anyone saw coming.

pico44 Mar 21, 2018 1:22 AM

I'm sorry, I'm sure this has already been discussed, but where is everybody going to work in the four years it'll take to destruct/construct this new tower?

Dac150 Mar 21, 2018 1:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pico44 (Post 8126900)
I'm sorry, I'm sure this has already been discussed, but where is everybody going to work in the four years it'll take to destruct/construct this new tower?

Across the street in 380 Madison, among some other locations in the area.

Amanita Mar 21, 2018 4:11 AM

I think the Chase staff are going to end up scattered around between 383 Madison, 277 Park Avenue, and a few other nearby buildings.

JMKeynes Mar 21, 2018 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dac150 (Post 8126884)
I think the purpose of the 270 redevelopment is to consolidate all area operations under one roof - JPMC has operations scattered throughout the vicinity. Having said that, I'm curious as to what will become of 383 Madison, which currently houses the investment bank. Will JPMC sell it? …

245 will likely stick around; larger floor plates and can house trading operations within the podium (which SocGen currently occupies). 270 is a very special case which I doubt anyone saw coming.

JPMC has loads of Money and $2.5b is a drop in the bucket for it.

chris08876 Mar 21, 2018 12:17 PM

Consolidating all of their operations under one roof would be nice. I think the potential for this tower could be added onto. In other words, this will be bulky, same FAR as the existing structure, taller, but I think this will be greater than 1200 ft. They should go big if they were to consolidate all of the ops in one roof.

NYguy Mar 27, 2018 2:58 PM

https://therealdeal.com/2018/03/27/t...estate-buyers/

Google, JPMorgan Chase and the new age of spectacularly rich corporate real estate buyers
Why more companies decide to buy office space, and how the trend can change the market



https://s11.therealdeal.com/trd/up/2...et-650x433.jpg


By Konrad Putzier
March 27, 2018


Quote:

They have more money than they know how to spend, safely stashed in offshore bank accounts. They are citizens of the world, moving from country to country chasing profit and lower taxes. And they like to buy trophy properties in Manhattan.

You’ll be forgiven for thinking of Middle Eastern sheiks and Russian oligarchs, but I am talking about big U.S. corporations.

Quote:

Last week, The Real Deal reported that Google is paying $2.4 billion in cash for the Chelsea Market building. Last month, banking giant JPMorgan Chase announced it will tear down its existing headquarters and build a 70-story skyscraper at 270 Park Avenue in its place.

Quote:

It’s not just Google and JPMorgan Chase. At Hudson Yards, private equity firm KKR, Wells Fargo and Time Warner agreed to buy office condos spanning a combined 2.3 million square feet. And on the West Coast, Facebook is building a small city for its employees that will include 1.75 million square feet of office space and 1,500 apartments.

Corporations buying office buildings isn’t new. In the early 20th century, New York’s tallest skyscrapers were built by big companies for their own use — think of the old MetLife Building and the Woolworth Building. But in the second half of the 20th century, more and more firms ditched their real estate holdings and began leasing office space instead.

Quote:

Now the pendulum is swinging back in the other direction. One reason: the sheer accumulation of wealth in the hands of corporate behemoths.


Quote:

Byron Carlock, PwC’s real estate leader, said the rise of corporate real estate buyers is part of a broader trend: companies, under pressure to attract workers, are paying more attention to their office space. “There is a perception that many spaces are outdated and in extreme cases demoralizing to the workforce,” he said. Buying or building your own property can be the best way to ensure the right work environment. Spending $2 billion on a building, he said, can be “inconsequential compared to the impact it would have on the workforce.”

The Best Forumer Mar 27, 2018 6:08 PM

Renderings???

NYguy Mar 29, 2018 12:13 AM

http://rew-online.com/2018/03/28/slo...own-goes-solo/

Slow-motion change as East Midtown goes solo


http://rew-online.com/wp-content/upl...24-938x535.png

BY KYLE CAMPBELL
MARCH 28, 2018


Quote:

East Midtown rezoning got its biggest endorsement to date last month: buy-in from one of the neighborhood’s oldest and most important corporate occupants, JPMorgan Chase.

.....In February, JPMorgan announced its plan to demolish its current headquarters and replace it with a new 70-story, 2.5 million s/f tower. As the first project to use the new zoning, the bank’s headquarters sparked a renewed excitement in Midtown East.

“It’s the single biggest piece of news we’ve had for Midtown post-One Vanderbilt in terms of what it’s going to do positively for the marketplace,” Cushman & Wakefield Global Brokerage chair Bruce Mosler said, adding that he expects more development opportunities to crop up this year.

In conversation with Mosler during REBNY’s spring lunch last week, Brookfield senior managing partner Ric Clark said citywide demand has shifted toward new construction. For Midtown East to remain competitive, owners either need to renovate or rebuild, he said.

“All this development has created a nuclear arms race when it comes to redeveloping old buildings, (there are) 40-plus buildings that are going through very substantial capital modifications so they can compete,” Clark said. “On Park Avenue, a lot of those buildings don’t lend themselves to that, so what JPMorgan Chase did is great. I know of two large corporate tenants that would love to do something like that on Park Avenue.”




https://commercialobserver.com/2018/...revive-or-die/

As Midtown Looks to Compete in a New Manhattan Market, It’s Revive or Die
Hudson Yards has changed the game for the city’s office landlords. In Midtown, developers are being forced to emulate and recreate to stay relevant.


https://nyocommercialobserver.files....9515.jpg?w=765


BY REY MASHAYEKHI
MARCH 28, 2018


Quote:

For the past few years, the developers, landlords and brokers who constitute the stakeholders of the Midtown Manhattan commercial real estate market have been barraged by waves of conjecture, speculation and hype. On earnings calls, panel debates and in the papers, they’ve been confronted with statements and observations that are, by now, extremely familiar: “Manhattan’s center of gravity is shifting westward.” “Today’s office tenants want new space in cool, hip neighborhoods.” “Midtown South and the Far West Side are now the city’s most desirable office markets.”

It’s all had the effect of painting a rather forlorn picture for Midtown, which today remains the world’s largest central business district and, in many respects, the dominant, bustling hub of commerce in New York City, from Times Square to Rockefeller Center to Grand Central Terminal. With more than 240 million square feet of inventory and 179 million square feet of Class A product, according to Cushman & Wakefield data, it is by far the greatest concentration of office space in the city.

Quote:

“The millennial generation has spoken: They want [offices with] light, air, amenities and column-free efficient space,” said Bruce Mosler, C&W’s chairman of global brokerage. “Businesses today respond to what the workforce wants and not where the CEO lives. To be successful, they have to be in the locations and property types that attract the millennial generation.”

The task for Midtown landlords then is finding a way to make their existing product more competitive against the challenge of the West Side’s rising citadels. The property owners who will continue to do well in Midtown, sources said, are those who will invest the resources into making their 20th century office buildings attractive to the needs of 21st century tenants.

“One thing that’s clear and evident, and Hudson Yards bears it out, is that tenants want new,” David Berkey, an executive vice president and director of leasing for L&L Holding Company, told CO. “They want modern workspaces—they can no longer live in these older workspaces—and there’s only a finite amount of [new space] getting built.”

Quote:

One Vanderbilt is rising only a few blocks south from 270 Park Avenue, where J.P. Morgan Chase will be tearing down its existing headquarters building and developing a new 70-story, 2.5-million-square-foot skyscraper, the banking giant announced in February. That endeavor is being aided with air rights acquired by J.P. Morgan through new parameters enabled by the Midtown East rezoning—a regulatory shift that many have touted as imperative in enabling developers to rebuild and renew the aging office stock in the area.

“I think it’s definitely forced landlords to take a good, hard look at a specific asset and whether it makes sense economically [to redevelop],” Fisher Brothers Partner Ken Fisher, whose firm owns five office buildings in the Midtown East area, said of the rezoning. “It gives us the ability to knock [buildings] down and rebuild, if that’s what we want to do.

Dac150 Mar 29, 2018 1:37 AM

“I know of two large corporate tenants that would love to do something like that on Park Avenue.”

Only other tenants I can think of are BlackRock and Citigroup (I know of several BlackRock and Citi employees who are unhappy about the new / soon-to-be new locations). There's also Alcoa, Colgate-Palmolive and Bristol-Myers … and maybe Blackstone and BCG.

NYguy Mar 29, 2018 4:20 AM

Developers are salivating, as are the owners of air rights to sell.


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