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-   -   How Is Covid-19 Impacting Life in Your City? (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=242036)

SIGSEGV Nov 17, 2020 5:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 9108432)
The cat is out of the bag with masking in the Western world.

Never again will masking feel strange or be met with widespread derision or suspicion.

Yes, we will stop wearing them after the pandemic, but in the future it will not be an uncommon site to see a person wearing one when sick and walking around in public. Kind of what you were seeing in Asian countries after the Swine Flu epidemic.

Yeah, masks definitely have advantages in masking (haha!) smells as well.

jtown,man Nov 17, 2020 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhays (Post 9108079)
Even if the mask is only worn during SOME of the contagious period, the community spread would be dramatically reduced.

And I kinda like wearing the mask when it's cold anyway.

Yup. My main pushback against masks outside were 1. I am not sick, so why wear it? 2. It's hot as fuck.

I think wearing a mask when you're sick but must go out is a nice gesture. I also love my mask now that its freaking cold. There's an upside to everything!

mrnyc Nov 17, 2020 1:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9106680)

10023, for years now, has claimed


he's in his parent's basement in peoria larping.

never a shred of proof about any of his claims about himself.

it's the internet folks.

:rolleyes: :shrug:

Acajack Nov 17, 2020 3:05 PM

This will sound contradictory as I am someone who totally complies with masking, as a good citizen and a team player in society.

But I am less and less convinced of its effectiveness. Where I live has 100% mask compliance in indoor public places, and all sorts of limitations on gatherings of any type you can imagine. This is also true of our neighbouring jurisdiction Ontario and both they and us here in Quebec have been seeing record numbers of infections.

Perhaps without the masks things would be even worse, but I don't subscribe to the theory that *if only every wore a mask*...

There is something insidious about this virus, that makes it very unpredictable about where it will rise and fall next.

I see lots of videos and articles about Asians and Australians living it up right now in public crowds (reaping the fruits of having "obeyed") but I am not sure that's the only factor or even the main one. They might find themselves in a harsh lockdown in short order.

Anyway, I am still gonna keep wearing my mask every place and for as long as our public health officials tell me to.

pj3000 Nov 17, 2020 3:15 PM

^ there's nothing "insidious" about it

Masks are not a protective force field -- they help to limit the potential spread by lessening the release of aerosols and lessening the inhalation of aerosols.

With actual distancing measures enacted and adhered to, plus mask wearing, control of community spread of viral pathogens can be achieved.

The problem is that after a few months, everywhere opened back up in the summer... many people wore masks, many people didn't wear masks, people started seeing family and friends again... maybe not big gatherings, but they still did... and then big gatherings started up again.

Bars and restaurants opened back up... smaller capacity, yes, but no mass
k needed if you're seated! :haha:

School started, college started, sports started, libraries opened, museums opened, art galleries opened, stores are packed again...

It's not a mystery. The economic strain was too much, and people (especially Americans) are weak motherfuckers.

homebucket Nov 17, 2020 3:39 PM

It's really two things, and the key word is mandatory.

- Mandatory mask wearing
- Mandatory quarantine for those infected and travelers

If we rented out hotels as quarantine zones and required a 14 day quarantine for anyone testing positive, or anyone traveling state to state or coming in from out of the country, and wore masks as advised, you would be able to go hit da club right now.

But no, freedom!

https://media.giphy.com/media/h3oOXD...sgZj/giphy.gif

iheartthed Nov 17, 2020 3:54 PM

This is awkward...

Quote:

Sweden stages coronavirus U-turn, banning public events with more than eight people

Sweden is switching from its voluntary lockdowns to a much more aggressive approach that will see public events of more than eight people banned.

The Nordic country was one of the few countries that didn’t go into an enforced lockdown, and has rejected the need for masks. In October, it drew up guidelines for a voluntary lockdown in cities worst hit by coronavirus.

But in a dramatic U-turn on Monday, new restrictions will no longer be a recommendation but enshrined in law as part of Sweden’s Public Order Act, which means there will be harsh penalties for violating them. Lawbreakers could face fines or up to six months in prison.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/sw...le-11605538856

Acajack Nov 17, 2020 4:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj3000 (Post 9108694)
^ there's nothing "insidious" about it

Masks are not a protective force field -- they help to limit the potential spread by lessening the release of aerosols and lessening the inhalation of aerosols.

With actual distancing measures enacted and adhered to, plus mask wearing, control of community spread of viral pathogens can be achieved.

The problem is that after a few months, everywhere opened back up in the summer... many people wore masks, many people didn't wear masks, people started seeing family and friends again... maybe not big gatherings, but they still did... and then big gatherings started up again.

Bars and restaurants opened back up... smaller capacity, yes, but no mass
k needed if you're seated! :haha:

School started, college started, sports started, libraries opened, museums opened, art galleries opened, stores are packed again...

It's not a mystery. The economic strain was too much, and people (especially Americans) are weak motherfuckers.

I am aware of all of that but the semi-free summer of 2020 is long gone. Things have been re-locked down for a while, and we've had a pretty nice fall that has allowed people to get some fresh air and not stay indoors too much.

Cases here continue to rise and reach record levels, whereas Atlantic Canada has its own "bubble" where there is a fairly high degree of normalcy and "freedom" (arguably moreso than anywhere in USA-Canada) and cases have not spiked there at all.

All of which leads to me to believe that the virus is "seeded" in certain places and at the least sign of people letting up, it surges again (or in some cases, for the first time in places where it didn't hit very hard).

It's all extremely unpredictable, and will likely remain so until mass vaccinations start taking place.

iheartthed Nov 17, 2020 4:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 9108752)
I am aware of all of that but the semi-free summer of 2020 is long gone. Things have been re-locked down for a while, and we've had a pretty nice fall that has allowed people to get some fresh air and not stay indoors too much.

Cases here continue to rise and reach record levels, whereas Atlantic Canada has its own "bubble" where there is a fairly high degree of normalcy and "freedom" (arguably moreso than anywhere in USA-Canada) and cases have not spiked there at all.

All of which leads to me to believe that the virus is "seeded" in certain places and at the least sign of people letting up, it surges again (or in some cases, for the first time in places where it didn't hit very hard).

It's all extremely unpredictable, and will likely remain so until mass vaccinations start taking place.

Six months ago a massive outbreak in North Dakota also seemed far-fetched. Just because Atlantic Canada hasn't experienced an outbreak yet doesn't mean that they never will.

pj3000 Nov 17, 2020 4:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 9108752)
I am aware of all of that but the semi-free summer of 2020 is long gone. Things have been re-locked down for a while, and we've had a pretty nice fall that has allowed people to get some fresh air and not stay indoors too much.

Cases here continue to rise and reach record levels, whereas Atlantic Canada has its own "bubble" where there is a fairly high degree of normalcy and "freedom" (arguably moreso than anywhere in USA-Canada) and cases have not spiked there at all.

All of which leads to me to believe that the virus is "seeded" in certain places and at the least sign of people letting up, it surges again (or in some cases, for the first time in places where it didn't hit very hard).

It's all extremely unpredictable, and will likely remain so until mass vaccinations start taking place.

"Re-locked down" is a relative description though. Restrictions on entertainment venues, gyms, bars/restaurants is not the same as "locked down". With workplaces and schools still bringing potential carriers together, especially now that colder weather is here, viral transmission will flourish.

Atlantic Canada is largely a "bubble"... the transmission vectors just don't exist there like they do in more largely populated, busier areas. We see blooms in places like North Dakota in the US because adequate prevention measures were not taken early on, and spread control measures have not been widely practiced for months. The virus arrived via a host who infected other hosts and the exponential infections of hosts followed... and now they're trying to play catch-up... and they're finding that there is no "catch-up", only management (virus transmission moves rapidly when people largely continue to live as if it doesn't exist).

Viruses aren't "seeded" in places. Viruses are seeded in hosts. They move via hosts... the more potential hosts you get within the required transmission distance... the more cases of disease you get. It's actually very simple -- cut off the vectors. A virus doesn't "surge" by itself.

Acajack Nov 17, 2020 4:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartthed (Post 9108773)
Six months ago a massive outbreak in North Dakota also seemed far-fetched. Just because Atlantic Canada hasn't experienced an outbreak yet doesn't mean that they never will.

That's exactly what I am saying.

10023 Nov 17, 2020 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homebucket (Post 9108202)
Wearing is a mask is the reason why countries like Taiwan and South Korea have been able to beat COVID and return to normalcy. That and requiring 14 day quarantine for travelers coming into the country. Clubs and raves are lit over there now like COVID never happened.

Just wear it, brah.

https://cdn.dribbble.com/users/10046.../nike_mask.png

Not really. Asian countries have returned to normalcy because there was some degree of community resistance to this virus to begin with.

the urban politician Nov 17, 2020 10:44 PM

^

He's ALIVE!!!!!!

He's ALIVE!!!!!!

:D

jtown,man Nov 18, 2020 8:44 PM

Maks help the user by 10-15% compared to non-mask users. Hardly a magic bullet many claim they are.

suburbanite Nov 18, 2020 8:53 PM

I don't know how many time we can beat the dead horse about mask-wearing. It's about adding layers of transmission reduction. A person wearing a mask next to someone who isn't is better than neither. Both wearing a mask is better than just one, standing 6 feet apart from each other while wearing masks is even better, etc. etc.

There is no magic bullet to saving everyone from Coronavirus in the same way there isn't saving every victim of a car crash. We still put on our seatbelts and expect our airbags to be in working order to give a better chance.

iheartthed Nov 18, 2020 9:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtown,man (Post 9110256)
Maks help the user by 10-15% compared to non-mask users. Hardly a magic bullet many claim they are.

That's why everybody has to wear them.

JManc Nov 18, 2020 9:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtown,man (Post 9110256)
Maks help the user by 10-15% compared to non-mask users. Hardly a magic bullet many claim they are.

As much as I hate wearing these effing things, it's not about protecting the user as so much those around them. Unless you're wearing an N95 mask, they are not really going to protect you but the purpose of requiring them is to mitigate someone who may be asymptomatic from spreading it around.

Pedestrian Nov 19, 2020 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JManc (Post 9110283)
As much as I hate wearing these effing things, it's not about protecting the user as so much those around them. Unless you're wearing an N95 mask, they are not really going to protect you but the purpose of requiring them is to mitigate someone who may be asymptomatic from spreading it around.

There is increasing evidence that they do offer some protection even to the wearer:

Quote:

Studies demonstrate that cloth mask materials can also reduce wearers’ exposure to infectious droplets through filtration, including filtration of fine droplets and particles less than 10 microns. The relative filtration effectiveness of various masks has varied widely across studies, in large part due to variation in experimental design and particle sizes analyzed. Multiple layers of cloth with higher thread counts have demonstrated superior performance compared to single layers of cloth with lower thread counts, in some cases filtering nearly 50% of fine particles less than 1 micron. Some materials (e.g., polypropylene) may enhance filtering effectiveness by generating triboelectric charge (a form of static electricity) that enhances capture of charged particles while others (e.g., silk) may help repel moist droplets and reduce fabric wetting and thus maintain breathability and comfort. [Pedestrian Note: N95 and KN95 masks, by definition, filter 95% of particles 0.3 microns and larger and, in fact may filter out as high a percentage or higher of even smaller particles--this all matters because we are also finding out that virus particle "dose" matters in terms of getting symptomatic illness]

Data regarding the “real-world” effectiveness of community masking are limited to observational and epidemiological studies.

An investigation of a high-exposure event, in which 2 symptomatically ill hair stylists interacted for an average of 15 minutes with each of 139 clients during an 8-day period, found that none of the 67 clients who subsequently consented to an interview and testing developed infection. The stylists and all clients universally wore masks in the salon as required by local ordinance and company policy at the time.

In a study of 124 Beijing households with > 1 laboratory-confirmed case of SARS-CoV-2 infection, mask use by the index patient and family contacts before the index patient developed symptoms reduced secondary transmission within the households by 79%.

A retrospective case-control study from Thailand documented that, among more than 1,000 persons interviewed as part of contact tracing investigations, those who reported having always worn a mask during high-risk exposures experienced a greater than 70% reduced risk of acquiring infection compared with persons who did not wear masks under these circumstances.

A study of an outbreak aboard the USS Theodore Roosevelt, an environment notable for congregate living quarters and close working environments, found that use of face coverings on-board was associated with a 70% reduced risk.

Investigations involving infected passengers aboard flights longer than 10 hours strongly suggest that masking prevented in-flight transmissions, as demonstrated by the absence of infection developing in other passengers and crew in the 14 days following exposure.

Seven studies have confirmed the benefit of universal masking in community level analyses: in a unified hospital system, a German city, a U.S. state, a panel of 15 U.S. states and Washington, D.C., as well as both Canada and the U.S. nationally. Each analysis demonstrated that, following directives from organizational and political leadership for universal masking, new infections fell significantly. Two of these studies and an additional analysis of data from 200 countries that included the U.S. also demonstrated reductions in mortality. An economic analysis using U.S. data found that, given these effects, increasing universal masking by 15% could prevent the need for lockdowns and reduce associated losses of up to $1 trillion or about 5% of gross domestic product.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...sars-cov2.html

dave8721 Nov 19, 2020 4:07 AM

I've also seen that wearing a mask can give you a lower dosage of the virus, which is almost as good as a vaccine and in theory could have the same effect.

Grimm,NY Nov 19, 2020 4:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 9109335)
Not really. Asian countries have returned to normalcy because there was some degree of community resistance to this virus to begin with.

These places are also easier to manage from a border control standpoint. Islands, a DMZ as the only land crossing, etc. They might be more vulnerable to explosive outbreaks then a place like Sweden, but due to advantageous conditions and the right tactics they have room to carry on somewhat normally and not have to administer 1st gen treatments in a panic.


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