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-   -   How Is Covid-19 Impacting Life in Your City? (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=242036)

10023 Apr 15, 2020 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris08876 (Post 8894171)
I read something yesterday that referenced social distancing up to 2022, and possibly even 2024, assuming a vaccine fails or they fail to find a vaccine. Social distancing until 2022 would be insanity.

You would see riots and social unrest if that were even seriously proposed.

sopas ej Apr 15, 2020 11:32 PM

One positive in the US of the stay-at-home orders...

From CBS News:


March 2020 was the first March without a school shooting in the U.S. since 2002


BY SOPHIE LEWIS

APRIL 14, 2020 / 2:45 PM / CBS NEWS


March 2020 was apparently the first March in nearly two decades without a school shooting in the U.S. Schools across America have been shut down since early March as a prevention measure to slow the spread of coronavirus. Since then, kids of all ages have adjusted to homeschooling and online classes — a new normal that could extend through the rest of the school year.

For most of those students, this is one of the longest stretches in their lifetimes without a school shooting. As first reported on Twitter by Washington Post reporter Robert Klemko, there hasn't been a March without a school shooting since 2002 — the year most current high school seniors were born.

Data from the National School Safety Center and National School Safety and Security Services confirm that there have been school shootings every March since 2002. That year, a 13-year-old student brought a gun and a hit list to school but was subdued by a school resource officer deputy before he could pull the trigger.

In March 2020, there were several instances of shootings on school campuses — but none that fit the typical description of a school shooting.

According to Everytown for Gun Safety, an organization that tracks gun violence in the U.S., there were a total of seven shootings that took place on school campuses in March 2020. Four of those shootings were classified as unintentional discharges, one took place between adults on a high school football field over the weekend and two occurred on college campuses but involved no students.

[...]

Link: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronav...5S5GZWdBl6zQ3A

jd3189 Apr 16, 2020 3:41 AM

^^^ That’s basically most of my life. Interesting. I thought the school shootings really became yearly after Sandy Hook.

Jonesy55 Apr 16, 2020 9:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dktshb (Post 8894031)
Damn, I think Sweden will likely be the next Country that is stricken and stricken bad.

170 deaths yesterday in Sweden, their highest daily total so far. Scaling up for population that's roughly equivalent to around 1,100 daily deaths in a country the size of UK/France or 5,500 daily deaths in the US.

Jonesy55 Apr 16, 2020 9:53 AM

Belgium has been very heavily hit, though it could be that they seem to be recording deaths in care homes etc quite comprehensively, other countries may well have to adjust their figures upwards quite a lot in due course to capture all deaths.

Belgium population 11.46m
Confirmed cases 34,809
Deaths 4,857
Deaths per million population 419

For comparison the official deaths per million in some other hotspots

Spain 402 (Madrid 1,012)
Italy 358 (Lombardy 1,083)
France 263 (Grand-Est region 363)
UK 190 (London 341)
USA 96 (NYC 1,296)

Evo5Boise Apr 16, 2020 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopas ej (Post 8894784)
One positive in the US of the stay-at-home orders...

From CBS News:


March 2020 was the first March without a school shooting in the U.S. since 2002


BY SOPHIE LEWIS

APRIL 14, 2020 / 2:45 PM / CBS NEWS


March 2020 was apparently the first March in nearly two decades without a school shooting in the U.S. Schools across America have been shut down since early March as a prevention measure to slow the spread of coronavirus. Since then, kids of all ages have adjusted to homeschooling and online classes — a new normal that could extend through the rest of the school year.

For most of those students, this is one of the longest stretches in their lifetimes without a school shooting. As first reported on Twitter by Washington Post reporter Robert Klemko, there hasn't been a March without a school shooting since 2002 — the year most current high school seniors were born.

Data from the National School Safety Center and National School Safety and Security Services confirm that there have been school shootings every March since 2002. That year, a 13-year-old student brought a gun and a hit list to school but was subdued by a school resource officer deputy before he could pull the trigger.

In March 2020, there were several instances of shootings on school campuses — but none that fit the typical description of a school shooting.

According to Everytown for Gun Safety, an organization that tracks gun violence in the U.S., there were a total of seven shootings that took place on school campuses in March 2020. Four of those shootings were classified as unintentional discharges, one took place between adults on a high school football field over the weekend and two occurred on college campuses but involved no students.

[...]

Link: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronav...5S5GZWdBl6zQ3A


Wow!! That was sobering to read. Never realized it had been that bad and it just goes to show you how desensitized we are to the situation now. Sad.

JoeMusashi Apr 16, 2020 2:02 PM

That is a deliberately misleading headline and statistic. When people think school shooting, they are thinking Columbine, Sandy Hook, or Parkland. They do the same thing by labeling every gangland shooting with like 4 people a "mass shooting". I don't consider some criminals that happen to also be students shooting each other over drugs/gang business to be the equivalent of Parkland.

The list of school shootings also includes pellet and BB guns, as well as accidental discharges.

bossabreezes Apr 16, 2020 2:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 8894666)

I find this pretty messed up. The hotels will not be able to turn the ''guests'' away due to discrimination, but will likely be able to throw them out if they cause problems. Which they will. SF homeless are amongst the most hard-core I've ever seen.

I'm all for helping each other but when governments rely on the private sector to take care of undesirables, it shows how weak our governments really are.

Handro Apr 16, 2020 2:36 PM

Just heard Gensler let go a signicant portion of their Chicago office and like 1000 people nationally...

EDIT: 60* people in their Chicago office and 1100* nationally...

mousquet Apr 16, 2020 2:38 PM

I'm the kind of guy that likes feeling the sunlight on my skin, breathing the air outdoor, feeling a bit of wind in my hair, drinking a cup of Italian coffee with folks around me, walking in town, biking the streets... Just simple enjoyments like these.

I often happen to be contemptuous and annoying, that's my very flaws. But I'm basically not much of a violent person, like I can't beat anybody, then when I face a tough challenge like this, I'd rather feel kind of depressed, wondering - wtf is wrong with me here? I'm fucked up!

It is hard to be locked up in your home like a circus tiger in a cage. I'm starting to feel what wild animals feel when you think they are yours, while they belong to the wild.
It's been a month already here. I can feel it in my body, in metabolism. It is some extreme experience. I eat some fruit salads when I feel too low, telling me that vitamins will help carry on.

On the other hand, I've never been that focused on my daily duty. There's nothing much to do but working at the moment.
I guess that's at least one good thing about this crazy challenge.

10023 Apr 16, 2020 3:58 PM

^ Personally, I’ve been spending as much time as possible outside when the weather is nice. Everything is a call and you can do those out in the sun. But our lockdown isn’t as needlessly strict as France’s.

photoLith Apr 16, 2020 3:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris08876 (Post 8894171)
I read something yesterday that referenced social distancing up to 2022, and possibly even 2024, assuming a vaccine fails or they fail to find a vaccine. Social distancing until 2022 would be insanity.

Where the hell did you read that? Jesus Christ that better not be the case. Well all be living under bridges and in tent cities.

chris08876 Apr 16, 2020 4:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by photoLith (Post 8895323)
Where the hell did you read that? Jesus Christ that better not be the case. Well all be living under bridges and in tent cities.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/14/healt...rnd/index.html

chris08876 Apr 16, 2020 4:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by photoLith (Post 8895323)
Where the hell did you read that? Jesus Christ that better not be the case. Well all be living under bridges and in tent cities.

Also here is the report: https://science.sciencemag.org/conte...cience.abb5793

10023 Apr 16, 2020 4:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris08876 (Post 8895348)

Nonsense. You don’t set policy with the objective of no one getting sick.

There are only measures that are justified as long as the outbreak threatens the stability of the healthcare system. And that period is ending. Beyond that, life goes back to normal and if you get sick you get treatment.

dave8721 Apr 16, 2020 6:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8895385)
Nonsense. You don’t set policy with the objective of no one getting sick.

There are only measures that are justified as long as the outbreak threatens the stability of the healthcare system. And that period is ending. Beyond that, life goes back to normal and if you get sick you get treatment.

Unless the only reason the healthcare system's stability is no longer threatened is because of the social distancing measures. Once those go away, the healthcare system goes right back to being threatened. Its not like the disease has gone anywhere. Its actually a by-product of the social distancing. Everyone stayed at home and there was no herd immunity developed. If we just go back to normal, the disease will come right back, ICU's will fill right back up and then we will have to go back to social distancing again. Its a catch-22.
There are 2 solutions, 1 is absolutely shut everything down completely for a month or so, so the disease has no one to spread into and basically dies out. This would work locally for a little while at least until it got re-introduced from somewhere else (See China)
Solution 2 is just let it run its course, kill millions but develop herd immunity.
The U.S. and most of the west is trying to exist somewhere between these 2 solutions which is sort of the worst of both worlds. We basically have the world trying to somewhat stay working until some sort of treatment is found (this would presumably be before a vaccine is found, a safe vaccine should take years to develop).

iheartthed Apr 16, 2020 8:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave8721 (Post 8895580)
Solution 2 is just let it run its course, kill millions but develop herd immunity.
The U.S. and most of the west is trying to exist somewhere between these 2 solutions which is sort of the worst of both worlds. We basically have the world trying to somewhat stay working until some sort of treatment is found (this would presumably be before a vaccine is found, a safe vaccine should take years to develop).

Also, "herd immunity" isn't a sure-fire bet. There is still uncertainty about whether someone who has been infected can be re-infected. Or, if there is some level of immunity developed from being infected, how long it lasts.

10023 Apr 16, 2020 8:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave8721 (Post 8895580)
Unless the only reason the healthcare system's stability is no longer threatened is because of the social distancing measures. Once those go away, the healthcare system goes right back to being threatened. Its not like the disease has gone anywhere. Its actually a by-product of the social distancing. Everyone stayed at home and there was no herd immunity developed. If we just go back to normal, the disease will come right back, ICU's will fill right back up and then we will have to go back to social distancing again. Its a catch-22.
There are 2 solutions, 1 is absolutely shut everything down completely for a month or so, so the disease has no one to spread into and basically dies out. This would work locally for a little while at least until it got re-introduced from somewhere else (See China)
Solution 2 is just let it run its course, kill millions but develop herd immunity.
The U.S. and most of the west is trying to exist somewhere between these 2 solutions which is sort of the worst of both worlds. We basically have the world trying to somewhat stay working until some sort of treatment is found (this would presumably be before a vaccine is found, a safe vaccine should take years to develop).

What do you think “shutting everything down” looks like without causing people to starve? We are doing as much as we can. The only thing you’re allowed to do is buy groceries and go for a walk.

And the “do nothing” scenario, if it means a million deaths globally, is really not that bad. That’s 0.013% of the world’s population, a tiny fraction of annual deaths, and mostly the elderly and sick.

You can make ventilators and create ICU capacity (basically field hospitals) a lot faster than you can develop a vaccine. And there is also the triage option, which hasn’t seriously been pursued, but is preferable to a prolonged shutdown of the global economy (even from a public health standpoint).

the urban politician Apr 16, 2020 8:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8895695)
What do you think “shutting everything down” looks like without causing people to starve? We are doing as much as we can. The only thing you’re allowed to do is buy groceries and go for a walk.

And the “do nothing” scenario, if it means a million deaths globally, is really not that bad. That’s 0.013% of the world’s population, a tiny fraction of annual deaths, and mostly the elderly and sick.

You can make ventilators and create ICU capacity (basically field hospitals) a lot faster than you can develop a vaccine. And there is also the triage option, which hasn’t seriously been pursued, but is preferable to a prolonged shutdown of the global economy (even from a public health standpoint).

Huh? Where did you get the idea that the death rate of C-19 is 0.013%?

There is no indication that it will be close to that low. Probably between 10-100 times higher than that.

I’m just as frustrated as you are. But even if we build out more hospital beds and have enough ventilators, we don’t have enough hospital and healthcare staff to service the number of patients that would overwhelm the system if we just stopped all social distancing altogether.

Ultimately, though, I agree with you that we have to do something different from a complete lockdown for 2 years. That’s obviously a nonstarter and I personally won’t be able to do it, as I’m sure is true with tens of millions of others.

I think the best thing is to relax the rules and get the Governors and Mayors out of the way of mandating lockdowns and closures with the exception of gatherings of over 50 people, and use an aggressive social messaging campaign to convince people to limit social interaction, practice social distancing, and wear masks in public as much as possible. Also, testing is VITAL! We’ve got to have ubiquitous testing capability everywhere, just like we do for Influenza. The Feds have dropped the ball majorly on this last one.

hauntedheadnc Apr 16, 2020 8:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartthed (Post 8895669)
Also, "herd immunity" isn't a sure-fire bet. There is still uncertainty about whether someone who has been infected can be re-infected. Or, if there is some level of immunity developed from being infected, how long it lasts.

Or if the virus just somehow goes dormant and then re-emerges and makes you sick over and over again. Some of the articles I'm reading make it sound as though it acts almost like herpes or something -- except whenever it flares up you get pneumonia instead of a sore.


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