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Nouvellecosse Apr 25, 2024 8:04 PM

In addition to some of the other ideas, it's also important to remember that art and design aren't really created by "societies" but rather by individuals and groups who happen to exist within societies. And such individuals and groups tends to be among the least conservative even when the rest of society is more so. But when creative and artistic people are surrounded by more conservative pressures it may very well spur a backlash since you will often see backlash movements pop up as a counterpoint to whatever trends happen to be prevalent. That's when people feel the greatest need to dissent.

With Tesla, I'm not sure that's really a matter of creativity so much as it is marketing. When you have a new technology (or new to the market at least) you need a way to get people's attention and overcome their behavioural inertia. You have "futuristic" designs on many such car technologies such as the GM EV1, the original Honda Insight, the original Chevy Volt, many of Toyota's Priuses, etc. Yet i would argue that neither GM nor Toyota are terribly artistic or creative overall. With Tesla, it just so happens that the entire company needs to cultivate that persona as part of its branding rather than just using it for certain models.

homebucket Apr 25, 2024 8:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JManc (Post 10192770)
^ That looks like SOMA just before Oracle.

Yep, it's the current northern terminus of the Caltrain line at 4th & King, just one block over from Oracle Park like you mentioned.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/nrpRKW7JDi5eDx8z6

In the future, this will be extended to the Salesforce (Transbay) Transit Center via a 1.3 mile underground tunnel (Downtown Rail Extension), and that will serve as the new terminus for Caltrain as well as CAHSR. Part of this station will be converted to underground as well, located on the other side of the block at 4th & Townsend.

https://sfyimby.com/wp-content/uploa...ge-by-TJPA.jpg

https://sfyimby.com/2023/10/ceqa-app...extension.html

JManc Apr 25, 2024 8:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homebucket (Post 10192873)
Yep, it's the current northern terminus of the Caltrain line at 4th & King, just one block over from Oracle Park like you mentioned.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/nrpRKW7JDi5eDx8z6

In the future, this will be extended to the Salesforce (Transbay) Transit Center via a 1.3 mile underground tunnel (Downtown Rail Extension), and that will serve as the new terminus for Caltrain as well as CAHSR. Part of this station will be converted to underground as well.

How will that work? TB is a hard left to the NW from the current terminus. Same track?

edale Apr 25, 2024 8:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse (Post 10192870)
In addition to some of the other ideas, it's also important to remember that art and design aren't really created by "societies" but rather by individuals and groups who happen to exist within societies. And such individuals and groups tends to be among the least conservative even when the rest of society is more so. But when creative and artistic people are surrounded by more conservative pressures it may very well spur a backlash since you will often see backlash movements pop up as a counterpoint to whatever trends happen to be prevalent. That's when people feel the greatest need to dissent.

Yes, the architects and designers are individuals, but they have to have clients in order for their projects to be built. While there are obviously projects for private developments/individuals, many of the clients for the most notable futurist developments are governments and public institutions, which I think can be used as a proxy for 'society'.

Nouvellecosse Apr 25, 2024 8:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edale (Post 10192902)
Yes, the architects and designers are individuals, but they have to have clients in order for their projects to be built. While there are obviously projects for private developments/individuals, many of the clients for the most notable futurist developments are governments and public institutions, which I think can be used as a proxy for 'society'.

Well sure, that last remark was just meant as an aside while the full explanation was my much longer post from a few days ago. That said, there has long been a disconnect between the average person and the creative people making designs. We often hear the public complaining about modern architectural styles including Moderism and Brutalism with them not being terribly popular in many circles. But that's still what's being built. What causes the disconnect can be hard to pin down, but I don't find that corporations and institutions like governments are a reliable proxy for general public sentiment.

veep Apr 25, 2024 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JManc (Post 10192899)
How will that work? TB is a hard left to the NW from the current terminus. Same track?

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