No. . . Al Qeida. . . but they were quick to blame ETA at first. . .

. . .

I completely agree that US politicians can and will act on baseless and unlikely threats. This is a safety first at any and all costs type of country, and I don't see that changing any time soon. If the option is between mild risk for a small percentage of people in exchange for vastly improved transit infrastructure or absolutely minimal risk in exchange for the status quo, this country will take the status quo every time.

That said, I don't buy that HSR would be considered less secure than air travel. HSR is inherently much much more secure because it runs on rails. There have been hijackings, bombings, etc. of planes for decades, and the US has responded extremely minimally. What caused the US to respond and really freak out over airline security was not an airplane hijacking, it was somebody turning that airplane into a guided missle and attacking something else. US politicians are nutty over airline security because they realized that a plane is a whole lot of explosive power that can be piloted to pretty much any target a terrorist wants that's not buried under a mountain. It's not really the plane security they're worried about, it's everything else the plane can hit.

That doesn't apply to HSR. First of all, HSR runs on rails and can only go where the rails go. Secondly, if it's electric powered, it's not a prebuild explosive. It'll make a nice projectile if the terrorist breaks the tracks, but it won't explode like something loaded with gasoline will. The HSR is still a potential target, but it's not as dangerous as an airplane because it has a very limited ability to damage anything else. You still need cameras to monitor the track where it runs near sensitive areas/potential targets, but that's not a significant portion of the tracks.

We are starting to veer of track here.......Though the hijackings for trains are definitely less likely (though there has been cases to be sure) trains are not much less at risk to sabotage then planes are and arguably are more at risk. As long as there is not a bomb or gun on board once planes are in the air it is pretty hard to regular Joe to bring down a plane along its route unless they happen to get their hands on some sort of hand held SAM. Those that who wish to sabotage a train route have countless miles of track with which to choose to run a train right of its tracks and cause heavy damage.

They are also at risk of bombs going boom inside the carriages and if they are going 150-200mph that could cause a lot of havoc. If start screening for explosives then you are losing a nice chunk of the time savings rail supporters give. And whoever said that it will only take one of two incidents for a train bombing before the public or media demand that screening be implemented was right.


• Video Link

Yes. And the ETA did bomb the airport parking garage in Madrid in 2006.

Can we get back to talking about transit developments in Chicagoland?

Why do people in Chicago seem to pee in CTA elevators with impunity?

Don't they have cameras in there? Isn't quality of life a good enough reason to turn those tapes over to the Police and let them beat the living daylights out of the offenders?

In general, it's difficult to develop effective deterrents to people who feel like they've got nothing to lose.

I've got a better idea... public toilets. Not the kiosk type on the sidewalk, but a handful of 5 or 6 storefronts around the downtown area. To prevent abuse and vandalism, you post a security guard. The bathrooms would be unisex, with a large number of urinals and a small number of toilets (in private stalls).

I have problems finding a bathroom when I'm downtown, so I imagine it must be a common problem. Usually I go to Macy's or Millennium Park.

I will admit, though, that we are rather spoiled in Chicago when we can only complain about urine in CTA elevators and (occasionally) on trains. Most other cities like NY, SF, Boston, or here in New Orleans have big problems with people urinating on the street, as well as other sanitation issues. Chicago is lucky that the city already spends quite a bit keeping the streets clean and deterring public urination/littering.

Are unisex bathrooms bigger than 1 toilet and urinal even legal?

Um, I got on the red line one day and found that someone had shit on the floor at the back of one of the cars. It was in the area that would be closed off for just the driver if the car was turned around. I immediately turned around and found a seat elsewhere in the car. I must admit it was rather entertaining watching after each stop the reactions of people as they entered the back part of the car.

Also, Can we get back to talking about transit developments in Chicagoland that don't involve stinky things?

Hence my "beat the living daylights" phrase. Even the basest of humans respond to corporal punishment when it has a specific goal. It may not work if you just say, "Be good," but if you say "Don't do this one thing," it works pretty well.

The stench hadn't permeated the entire car? I've experienced the same thing before, and it was heinous! I had to transfer cars between stops.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/c...,1557944.story

Metra on track to rehab and rebuild dozens of stations
By Richard Wronski
December 7, 2009

Lattes flow for commuters at Tinley Park's $5 million Metra station, an architectural gem. But the only thing flowing at Cicero's dreary train stop is the rainwater that blows through the corrugated-metal shelter.
---
New stations in bold
- Healy
- Mayfair
- Grayland
- Peterson/Ridge
- Hubbard Woods
- Fox River Grove
- Cumberland
- Elmhurst
- Geneva
- River Forest
- Naperville
- Cicero
- Downers Grove Main Street
- Romeoville
- Flossmoor
- Hazel Crest
- Burr Oak
- 59th Street
- 63rd Street
- Calumet
- Ashland Avenue
- Racine Avenue
- Auburn Park
- 91st Street
- 115th Street
- Hickory Creek
- Blue Island/Vermont Avenue

This list does not include the new 35th Street station or rebuilding the 80th Avenue station in Tinley Park.

Cool. The Auburn-Gresham Development Corporation plans for the Auburn Park Metra station to be located at Winneconna and Fielding; this seems like a cool site with a lot of potential, although an Englewood station at 69th would be better from a transit-planning perspective (it would serve SouthWest Service trains after they are rerouted into LaSalle Street).

No idea where the Romeoville stop would go; I could really care less, since the Heritage Corridor actually runs across the river from Romeoville, through the middle of nowhere.

Peterson/Ridge is interesting. I'm always supportive of additional transit in the city, but I wonder how much of that crowding at Ravenswood will evaporate now that the Brown Line is back up? Ravenswood is supposed to be rebuilt very soon while Metra replaces the bridges on the North line; that's not on your list either. If traffic at the new station is low, we'll get another one of those "ghost" stations that trains never seem to stop at, like Gladstone Park or Mars, but whose maintenance still saddles Metra's budget.

That's a lotta bridges, a lotta construction work - gonna take as much time as, like, rebuilding the tri-state (per below, first sub-phase is 8 bridges out of 22).

I'm curious how they will look. The new Purple Line bridges in Evanston still keep the brutalist-industrial vein, even for pretty short spans. I don't know whether that's just the cheapest way of doing it or not. There certainly are prettier ways a 20-yard viaduct could look. Some things in this city I like industrial/brutalist (e.g. LSD Chicago River Bridge), but for a rail viaduct every freakin' block through a residential neighborhood, I think it's a bit much.

As for timing and scope, ardecila let us know if you have more specifics than what's on their website:

http://metrarail.com/content/metra/e...lprojects.html
Union Pacific North Line Bridges: This project includes the initial phase of replacement for up to 22 bridges on the Union Pacific North Line in Chicago. These bridges are more than 100 years old and are showing increased deterioration. They must be replaced in order to provide uninterrupted commuter service. Nearly $40 million is programmed in this phase to replace necessary structures. Extensive track work and some commuter station modifications will be required. To ensure reliable train operations, various signal improvements will also be completed.


http://metrarail.com/metra/en/home/a..._projects.html
Replacement of eight bridges at Balmoral, Foster, Winnemac, Lawrence, Leland, Wilson, Sunnyside and Montrose. Replacement of the Ravenswood Station will follow the bridge replacement project. Construction to begin fall 2010.

Will the new bridges still be wide enough to accommodate a third track?

Another track for express service would be beneficial especially if KRM actually winds up running all the way to Chicago.

An additional Edgewater/south West Ridge /north Lincoln Square stop is an excellent idea. It's currently stuck in that gentrificationless middle area where commuting to the Loop is simply not practical, helping explain why the area houses more than its share of Section 8 residents, senior citizens, and otherwise marginally employable individuals. It can further fuel Andersenville's gentrification northward, where it can link up with the fairly vibrant Clark street commercial district in Rogers Park.

My only concern is the location. Ridge/Peterson don't intersect with the UPN tracks, so I'm assuming that the stop is going to be just west at Peterson and Ravenswood. That intersection does not have much room for redevelopment and it's adjacent to the Rosehill graveyard, making TOD virtually impossible. I'd prefer for the stop to be a few blocks north at Granville, where the little strip malls can be converted to more productive use.

Yes, it's a big project, about $200 million IIRC. A similar, smaller project was done a few years ago on the UP-NW line. I rode the line during that time period and don't remember too much disruption. The old plate girder bridges were replaced with new plate girder bridges in cor-ten, but the girders are deeper to allow the center posts to be removed. Retaining walls are reinforced with concrete to handle the weight of the larger span.

Since the UP-N and NW viaducts were built at the same time by the C&NW Railroad, I imagine they have similar construction, so the replacements would be the same as well.

Replacement bridges at Keeler/Irving Park

I doubt they will rebuild the bridges for the third track, although they will probably keep the first two tracks in their current locations, allowing for an express track to the west at a later date. Plate girder bridges are pretty modular, so you can expand them by just adding another bay.

As for the Peterson/Ridge station - the platform won't be at the intersection of Peterson and Ridge, it will stretch BETWEEN Peterson and Ridge, with stairs to both streets. Metra stations, especially urban ones without parking, don't take up much real estate. You build long, narrow platforms and a small station house to one side. Looks like some community gardens will get nixed, though.

Yes, train stops are generally located along the train tracks. :koko:

I think the idea is that there would be an exit at Peterson and another at Ridge.

The rationale eludes me, however. Overcrowding??? At a Metra station? How bad can it really be?

My thinking is that the choice of Peterson / Ridge....seems a bit odd. That area is not at all ped friendly....the west strip of Peterson btw there and Western is in fact one of the least ped friendly strips on the entire northside.

I wonder if though this Metra station could spur more intense development of the strip where Carson's used to be, get rid of the White Castle and Develop perhaps a solid midrise type building in the 8-12 story range on the triangle at ridge / peterson / ashland....where the car wash is


I applaud the extra station just a little curious choice of placement I guess

It might make sense to rearrange the whole RP scheme....with a Howard station and a devon station....gettting rid of the lunt station....though that would be inconvenient for many including me....Lunt is my station

There has been more than one occassion at the RP station where I could not get on the platform...

Additionally, there has been more than one occassion where I could not get on th train ; had to wait for the next train....

that is frustrating

I really wish Metra would consider running higher frequency service.....particuliarly evenings and weekends.....

weekend service essentially sucks....

use money to increase service frequency

Good to hear they're finally getting around to fixing that Cicero station...theres not much left of it.

Yes. And I was pointing out that the tracks do not intersect Peterson/Rdge, where Metra said it intends to add a stop. It would have to be along Ravenswood at either Peterson or Ridge, but not at Peterson/Rdge.



Both the RP and the Ravenswood stations are some of the businest in the system. Additionally, both stations have a good number of street-park-and-ride commuters from Edgewater already who would otherwise board at the new stop and perhaps not drive.


That's true, but it's also one of the densest parts of the city. The demand is certainly there, but to spur TOD development I believe that the station should be at Granville where it wouldn't be blocked off by a graveyard, existing development, and otherwise pedestrian unfriendly conditions.


Right now, the RP stop is walkable from almost any part of Rogers Park in under 20 minutes. That's generally regarded as the threshhold at which people will be willing to walk to a transit stop. So in that sense, it captures a huge chunk of the population fairly well. Additionally, the Lunt/Greenleaf/Morse area is the political power base of RP, so a change is highly unlikely.

There's no intersection of 51st/53rd, either. Peterson/Ridge means there will be entrances from both streets, not that it will be at the intersection of Peterson and Ridge.

I don't think redevelopment or planning considerations entered into Metra's thinking. They just put it halfway between Ravenswood and Rogers Park.

A station at Peterson would be wildly popular and extremely beneficial for that area. Its a great location for a station because that area of town has essentially no transit access which is why its completely dead. By building a station there they will essentially cause the entire clark and ashland and ridge and peterson area to gentrify. That area has a lot of willy-nilly streets and quite a nice housing stock and could make for an excellent northward extension of Andersonville. Perhaps one day Clark will have excellent street life all the way to Devon linking two of Chicago's most interesting areas together?

When talking about new UP-N stations I am a bit surprised that there aren't plans to make a transfer station with the Brown Line somewhere. It would seem that a transfer station particularly at Addison/Lincoln could be a worthwhile endeavor.

Poke around on Bing.com Bird's Eye or Google Street View, particularly to the north and west of Peterson/Ravenswood, extending all the way to Granville/Hamilton. You might be surprised at how dense that area already is. Unfortunately, the zoning is not very high, so there will be limited potential for it to get denser.

http://www.bing.com/maps/default.asp...C%20IL%2060660

Yeah, Addison would be about halfway between Ravenswood and Clybourn, though Irving Park could also be an option.

The Peterson Bus puts you on the red line in about 7 minutes from that location. I took it nearly everyday when I was a kid

Well, it's only a short walk from Ravenswood Metra to Damen on the Brown Line... about 1/4 mile, platform-to-platform.

Isn't it more logical to transfer from UP-N to CTA at Evanston Davis Street or at Ogilvie–Washington/Wells?

I'm well aware of that bus, I sometimes take it to the 11 when I have to work out in Southeast Skokie. Problem is, it runs every like 10 min at its most frequent. One bus route that comes every ten minutes isn't exactly stellar transit access. A rail station there will completely open that area up. I've always wanted to move out to that area between Andersonville and the Metra tracks, but have never done it because it would take like 50 min to get downtown. Adding a Metra station makes that like a 5 min walk and a 15 min train ride away.

^Wait, wait, I'm just writing this down . . .

bus every 10 minutes = "not exactly stellar transit access" . . .

commuter train once an hour = life-changing improvement.

The issue is overall time spent commuting. Most people can plan for a train operating 3-4 times an hour at rush hour and once an hour otherwise, but there is no way to plan around a 60+minute commute involving the Peterson bus and the far reaches of the redline.

So to summarize...

Bus every ten minutes + redline for 30 to 50 minutes = not stellar transit accesss.

commuter train once an hour that takes 10 to 20 minutes to get to the Loop, and downtown Evanston= life-changing improvement.

It is highly improbable that this part of the northside will ever reach a critical mass of higher income workers without faster access to employment centers that are larger than the Edgewater nursing home district (ie the Loop).

FYI: Bing really doesn't work well in Firefox, and barely works at all in Firefox running on Linux (which is what I'm using). Google Maps, on the other hand, seem to work well in all browser/OS combinations I've tried.

And until Google Maps adds a Bird's Eye View...

Snarky/obtuse much?

Seriously, have you actually considered what a typical commute might look like? And have you considered that many people--regardless of whether it is fair or accurate in your mind--don't consider buses as convenient or reliable as trains? I actually think that a solid majority do not consider busses as convenient (though I admit I have no data to back up my gut feeling).

If you want to live in a fantasy world where busses=trains to everyone, be my guest. But that attitude just isn't helpful when considering the practical effects of transit plans.

+1 what Marcu said.

I agree that a Metra stop there will of course be beneficial to the area and may promote ridership among those who eschew buses. I simply wanted to point out that the area is not exactly a transit desert.

The transit access in that area is better than probabably 95% of America, and better than most of the rest of the Metro area as well.

This is one of my biggest issues with the strip of Western north of peterson up to Granville on the east side and up to nearly Rosemont on the west side.

They could easily make the area a higher density hub....I think western is b3-2 if I am not mistaken....the intersection of Peterson / Western are bus access point to brown and red lines in about 15 minutes or so....bad traffic can impact that....

Yet the development there post fall of CJames, ZFrank and the other dealerships is slated for the worst of autocentric walgreen infused horribleness...

With the Metra station now only a 5 minute bus ride from this strip..this redevelopment of Western north of peterson is a travesty that will impact west ridge for at least 50 years


Both Ald. Pat OConnor and the somnambulant Bernie Stone should be called on the carpet for this.

^^^ I drove past that stretch the other day. I have fairly low standards for Western as an urban street, but I was still surprised at how blitzed it was.

^^Its brutal and it does not need to be. I grew up right behind what was ZFrank / CJames.

This strip was quite busy in it day with all the traffic a busy car dealership generated.....now indeed it does look blitzed.

I don't understand why there are not higher standards for this strip....

If walgreens want to get in ...do something like CVS as Damen and Lawrence....god if Damen can handle a 4-5 story mixed use Western certainly can..
I really think the alderman should have reached out to members of the Indian / Pakistani community and searched for developers who might be interested in creating a strip that runs from Devon south to Peterson.

The opportunity that now is presented at Western north of Peterson is one of the most unheralded chances the north side has had in 50 years to develop some continous density at the nexus of two major transit intersections.....PEterson / Western to Red / Brown line. Hell even the 155 Devon to the redline is not that long of ride to the red line.

This should be promoted but instead some connected developer is going to drop a walgreen parking lot where we could have some sustainable density / mixed use and transit interchange.

Instead we get autocentric Golf Road style shiza that will only further marginilise there area instead of embracing the transit modalities that are currently present and underappreciated.

Now with possibled metra interconnectivity literallyt a 5 minute bus from Peterson & Western.....any development that does not embrace this is not only poor design....it is criminally negligent in era where we should be promoting auto independence and promoting transit lifestyle instead of reinforcing sprawlville, autocentric, gaswhoring, in the city no less


It irritates me....obviously

EDIT:
Checked the zoning map and it appears it is c2-2; the intricacies of the distinction between c and b zoning I am not clear about ; but it does say c2-2 does allow residential above the 1st floor.....and the lot frontages would allow buildings of about 50 ft.....enough for 5 floors......instead the siht parking lot sandwich that makes any neighborhood oh so more appealing.


Also OLD Bernie Stone website actually proclaims how great it is to have this new walgreens at glenlake and western......that guy is a schmuck!

^^^ It's kind of a tough situation with Western, though. The car traffic is so heavy that it has a strongly negative effect on demand for residential development. I know I'd sure as heck never want to live on that street, even on the 4th floor. Damen isn't a bad street to live on because it's two lanes and the traffic isn't too heavy (as it's siphoned off by faster, stop sign-free Ashland and Western).
Not to say that development will never happen there, but the traffic is a hurdle to overcome.

^C2 is the auto-oriented business classification - not surprising, since it was a car dealership. C2 is relatively rare, meaning developers will highly value the ability to build suburban style crapola since people jump at the opportunity to use strip mall retail once it's built, and chain retailers like it because it's what they're used to. In general, other than C2, the only other zoning that would allow such junk is M(anufacturing) - hence the big boxorama that generally follows the North Branch of the river.

The battle on that stretch of Western if already lost. The only possible saving grace is pedestrian street designation along Devon, which should at least protect Devon from becoming an auto sewer like Western even if the beautiful commercial architecture is vulnerable due to the lack of landmarking. That said, along and north of Devon there is quite a bit of R4 zoning (generally means 3 units per city lot), so it's already dense and in some places could actually get denser - a rarity for the North Side, most of which is zoned well below the actual built density due to the triumphs of decades of neighborhood NIMBYism. Most of the few areas that weren't zoned below the existing density were basically totally rebuilt during the boom - think Old Town south of North Ave and west of Sedgwick, Lakeview between Clark and Broadway and south of Roscoe, the few pockets of unlandmarked southern Lincoln Park, and so on.

Perhaps but I was thinking rentals could still possoibly work especially given the immigration profile of the area.....immigrant magent....often look for apt versus ownership.....renters may be less picky over that sort of thing...not sure thoughh

Also further south...not even that much further south....I am thinking roughly Catalpa on south they have been building some 4-5 story resid......probably condo; and probably not doing to well


It just seems again with that intersection....two bus routes to two major L lines....and now even faster connection to Metra it is a sad, sad development.

Yes. You may be the expert on Chicago zoning history and urban planning, but I live in the area and try to use the Peterson bus to commute on a regular basis and it just downright sucks. The Peterson bus comes every 10 min at its most frequent and probably averages more like 20 min for most of the day. The thing that makes neighborhoods really take off is not one bus line that provides you marginal access to a transfer point, its direct and speedy access to a large source of high paying jobs. Having a station there will allow people to actually live in this area and commute to jobs downtown and Evanston. Right now no right minded working professional who doesn't drive is going to live in West Andersonville or whatever this area of town is technically classified as (North Andersonville? West Edgewater?). That's why its current filled with gated car communities and retirement homes. What happens when you build a Metra station? Then people are able to actually live here and work downtown without dealing with snarled traffic. There are lots of absolutely wonderful streets in this area like Elmdale and Norwood that have basically no transit access on their Western ends. This will change that.

A commute is just not reliable when you have to go outside ten minutes before the bus is supposed to come on Bustracker (5 min walk and 5 min buffer) and then take the 84 for 5 more min. Then transfer to the Redline (anywhere from a 5 min wait to a 20 min wait depending on how crappy the CTA is being). Then take the Red line for 35-40 min. And then take a 5-10 min walk to your building. That adds up to 45-60 min. Metra = like 15-20. Much more appealing.

There has been some decent, urban development in West Ridge/north Lincoln Square/west Edgewater over the last ten years along major streets. It hasn't been all crap. For example the senior residences right next to where this stop will go is decently urban and quite tall for the area. The Lincoln/Peterson area has also had some 4 story+ buildings go up. And not all new development needs to be residential. All hope is lost for Western from Howard to Devon (an area not pedestrian accessible to any train station anyway), but it doesn't have to be for Western from Devon to Peterson and for Peterson from Lincoln to Ravenswood.

Just for shits and grins I google mapped the commute time from Peterson / Western to where the new station is proposed

CTA: 6 minutes
Walking: 15 minutes


I agree that the Metra station if properly integrated into plannin decisions could be a game changer

I mean 6 minutes to the Metra on the bus.....with bustracker available that means you can pretty much get your commute time down pat.



The fact that TOD is not beig considered along this strip of Western when it is 6 minute from a proposed Metra station.....is just plain stupid......but not surprising given Old BErnie Stone.....that guy need to be put outside and left

6 minute bus ride / 15 minute walk an old Bernie and is octagenerian minions are jumping up and down about suburban style, shit-tacular, garbage.


This simple should not be allowed....ahh



That part of town needs new blood......not some old jewish guy who can barley open his eyes as he waddles his way around town....in the process farcockting up streetscapes and planning decisions as a matter of course.........schmegege

I really wish Apple would do this when they "freshen up" North/Clyborn:

http://www.on-a.es/newsletter/090423/ona_06.jpg
From the Arquitechura website. Click on the image for more info about their station update at the Drassanes station in Barcelona.