Phoenix's "The Deuce"?
Hey folks,
Do any of you guys have any stories or tales or pictures of Phoenix's old "Deuce" neighborhood, our very own old Skid Row? It was named I'm guessing as by its two locations on 2's--2nd St near Van Buren and 2nd Ave and Madison. Had the area reasonably gentrified, it perhaps could have been our own Mill Avenue--an organically grown, mixed-use, pedestrian friendly neighborhood. In fact, Mill and various other Phoenix neighborhoods were its contemporaries, but obviously took different paths in their ultimate redevelopment. The staple of The Deuce was basically "Single Room Occupancy" flophouses a lot like the Hotel Windsor, the 2-story building next to the Hotel Monroe construction site, and the image on the last scene of the 1960's Phoenix transition video, which we figure was shot near 2nd St just south of Van Buren. Gritty bars, restaurants (there's a story about the author finding somebody passed out in a bowl of menudo), liquor stores, immigrant cafes rounded the rest of The Deuce out. We don't talk about it much, but The Deuce's demolition was Phoenix's very own rotten "urban renewal" project--losing an entire urban neighborhood at a time for a highly utilitarian, non-urban use like Civic Plaza. I wondered why Civic Plaza was built in its current location in the center of downtown as opposed to the periphery, but it appears Civic Plaza *was* on the periphery of what was then the respectable part of Downtown Phoenix. Sure, the grittiness of The Deuce may have made its destruction obvious, but if we followed that mantra everywhere it appeared an easy solution, this country would have few great places left. It is unfortunate we followed it here. The Deuce was torn down en masse for the North Building and Symphony Hall around 1972 and again for the South Building in 1982. The other 1970s wastelands in the area, Chase Tower and Hyatt, came from the same broken, destined-to-fail thinking--renewal by isolation. The massive walls and moats for projects built around this time were probably no accident--architects probably didn't want anything to do with the street scene at the time. The 1970s for downtown Phoenix was an ironic turning point in our post-Park Central Mall decline. Downtown was booming with the things that were purported to renew it but in fact that which was constructed made our modern problem that much larger. It's when downtown started turning from being a collection of neighborhoods to a collection of uses. Many of the last stands of what could have given us a modern street scene were torn down, even tho demolitions in the area were well on their way by the 1950's. I haven't found many articles (yet) that give more than a cursory description of the area... but some things I'm finding out about the neighborhood: The homeless problem downtown may very well have originated in the Deuce's final destruction--on a cold rainy November night in 1982, some 300 were found camped making fires in Patriots Square. Many of the Deuce's residents--those folks in the flophouses had no place else to go. Don't like the Matador? I was hearing a story of the Matador in its old location--a better place, a better vibe, better food, way cheaper before it corporatized to the hotel convention market with a move to the Regency Garage. Sing High Chop Suey is another restaurant that survives relocated from the Deuce. Ernesto Miranda actually died from a stabwound received at a Deuce-area bar. If you folks have any stories or pictures or anything from Phoenix's "The Deuce" part of town I would *love* to learn more about it! |
/\ Very interesting. I have not heard about it specifically called The Deuce. Although I've heard about downtown phoenix's rough past... seems like downtown's destruction for new buildings (like you talk about above) was inevitable, but that's just another reason downtown has struggled for so long. If everything was kept as-is in downtown (roughly 7th ST to 7th Ave, McDowell to Buckeye), save for the random tear down and rebuilding with a tower (actually "making good" on the proposal and rezoning for a high-rise, rather than tearing down a historic structure and letting the lot turn to dust), downtown Phoenix would be amazing right now (relative to what it is). I'm envisioning a couple streets like Mill Avenue, a more cohesive arts district, a warehouse district like other cities (just with smaller warehouses), and maybe even a real/thriving chinatown.
Oh well, there's nothing we can do about it now. But I'd love to hear more about The Deuce. I'll try to dig something/anything up. |
This picture might shed light as to what it used to look like. I don't know if this was in anyway connected to "the deuce", probably not, but it may have turned into it's own shady area after a while. The building on the right looks like the one where that "Sticklers" sandwhich shop is now, near city hall. I'm pretty sure this is 3rd St looking south at Washington. The buildings and hotel and streets look like they could have fallen into disrepair, and have now been replaced by all of those hideous municipal buildings and/or parking lots there are downtown now.
http://www.azhistoricalimages.org/im...//ppl4042r.jpg |
Good thread, combusean. Was this prompted by the column discussing the Deuce in the "Phoenix Republic" a few days ago? I was struck by three things in that column: first, that Phoenix tore down nearly 150 buildings in the Deuce; second, that the teardowns took place en masse until 1994 (I guess I sort of knew that as America West Arena opened in 1993, but it is still striking because the massive urban renewal projects that wiped out entire neighborhoods in other cities had pretty much stopped by the 80's, let alone 1994); and third, that the site of Ernesto Miranda's death (and possibly his arrest?) was where US Airways Center now sits. There's no testament to that fact anywhere that I know of-- and in a city that always gets slammed for having "no history"-- Miranda's life, as ironic as this is, is a pretty important part of American history because of the court decision that bears his name.
I can't find that Republic column online, but there's a blog on azcentral that discusses the column and fleshes out a couple facts: http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/Deanne/27028 http://downtownphoenix.blogspot.com |
Actually, it wasn't ... the chronlog of the Phoenix Chamber of Commerce building--(one that is interesting as it stood only during downtown's decline) and identifying from where various shots were taken sort of got us thinking about Phoenix's old downtown.
I couldn't find the Republic column either--we were looking for it the other night. I have an email out to Ms Turner, the author of the article--hopefully I get some traction. :) |
HOW I LEARNED I HAD LANDED IN THE BIG CITY
Arizona Republic, The (Phoenix, AZ) - September 15, 2006 Author: Clay Thompson, The Arizona Republic Quote:
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THINK BIG SMALLER - NEGLECTING THE LITTLE THINGS RAISES THE SPECTER THAT DOWNTOWN WILL REMAIN A DEAD ZONE
Arizona Republic, The (Phoenix, AZ) - July 30, 2006 Author: Jon Talton, The Arizona Republic Quote:
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EATERY SAW ROUGH TIMES
Arizona Republic, The (Phoenix, AZ) - September 19, 2004 Author: William Hermann, The Arizona Republic Quote:
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NEW HOMELESS FACILITY STILL FACES UPHILL BATTLE
Arizona Republic, The (Phoenix, AZ) - December 15, 2001 Author: Tom Zoellner and Elvia Diaz, The Arizona Republic Quote:
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Idea: probably insane, disrespectful... but ... rebuild it... here:
http://emvis.net/~sean/ssp/newdeuce.png ...courtesy Google ... on 19th Avenue and Lower Buckeye... endcapping the Rio Salado improvement district... All the dirt is city owned ... The area is 12 downtown-size blocks northsouth on the longend by 8 blocks to the east and west...just about the size of Downtown itself... the airport would ensure low height limits, the area could use the reinvestment--especially with the kind of workforce housing that the Deuce provided. |
No new construction could ever measure up to the historic treasures these buildings could have been if renovated, (or not). Too bad we razed half of our Downtown history, if not more. It does present some good challenges I suppose, like a way to create a new identity. Still, old red brick buildings always make for good botique shops, salons, architecture/ design firms/ lounges/ eateries. It hurts seeing old pics of good buildings.
Thanks for the education Sean! |
This thread needs a bump. Still looking for more information about old Downtown.
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This column has a bit on the Deuce, and Phoenix:
http://roguecolumnist.typepad.com/ro...-old-city.html |
From another column:
1930s The Great Depression didn’t affect Phoenix as much as older American cities. Six banks and two building and loan associations failed, shops closed, and construction halted. Still, movie houses were open, and 1930s photographs show evidence of Downtown hustle and bustle. In the late 1930s, Downtown Phoenix’s retail sales ranked 13th in the nation. February 25, 1931: Phoenix celebrated the 50th anniversary of its incorporation with a parade, costume ball and rodeo. January 1933: Walter Bimson took control of Valley National Bank and is credited with helping save the Arizona banking system. 1934: The “business of sin” was alive, Luckingham writes, as brothels proliferated along Jefferson, Madison and Jackson streets between Central Avenue and Fourth Street. Today, the Phoenix Suns play basketball here. 1935: The two-story U.S. Post Office at Central Avenue and Fillmore Street opened. A 1937 stamp denoting the Works Progress Administration – created by President Franklin D. Roosevelt to create jobs during the Great Depression – is still visible on the sidewalk along Fillmore Street. 1940s The Phoenix population was 65,000 by 1940, and Downtown attracted droves of shoppers from outlying areas. In the 1940s, Kress’s, J.C. Penney, Newberry’s, Korrick’s, Goldwater’s, Switzer’s, the Boston Store (later Diamond’s), Montgomery Ward, and Sears, Roebuck and Co. were concentrated in a four-block area. Phoenix attorney Kenneth Diamond, a member of the Diamond retailing family, remembers a “dramatic event” that affected Downtown merchants. “Stores were open until 9 p.m. on Thursdays,” he recalls. “Pedestrians crowded the sidewalks.” Thousands of servicemen stationed in the Valley also crowded Downtown, prompting prominent businessman George Luhrs to liken Phoenix’s streets to New York City. 1946: Eugene C. Pulliam bought The Arizona Republic and would go on to wield great influence over everything from city government reform to freeway construction. 1947: Hanny’s, a three-story clothing store at Adams and First streets (now a restaurant by the same name), opened with a modern architectural look emulated by other retailers in post-war Downtown. 1948: Automobiles and city buses phased out Downtown’s railcars, which had run since 1887. 1950s Downtown went into decline as post-war boomers sought a new life in the city’s outer reaches. In 1957, Phoenix’s first shopping mall, Park Central Shopping Center, opened at Central Avenue and Osborn Street with 34 stores, sounding a death knell for Downtown’s merchants. Goldwater’s relocated there and J.C. Penney later followed suit. “The retail mercantile heart of Phoenix hasn’t moved out from Downtown to its far-flung arterial arms or legs just yet,” said a May 1953 article in The Arizona Republic. Still, the writing was on the wall. Rapid growth and annexation also took the focus away from Downtown. 1955: Hotel San Carlos underwent a major renovation, adding a swimming pool to the rooftop. It is the only historic hotel still operating Downtown. 1959: The Phoenix Art Museum opened. 1959: The City of Phoenix purchased the Walker Building, a 1920 building that housed the first J.C. Penney store. It is now surrounded by city government buildings. 1960s In the 1960s, cruising Central Avenue was in, but retail was out. All the major department stores abandoned Downtown. Empty storefronts became skid rows. “When I arrived in 1968, Downtown was on its way down,” says Jerry Colangelo, a major force behind Downtown revitalization in the 1990s. In 1948, Downtown had accounted for 35 percent of retail sales in Maricopa County. By 1963, Downtown’s percentage was 7.7 percent. Meanwhile, a crop of high-rise developments uptown split the Phoenix skyline in two. 1960: The 20-story Guaranty Building opened uptown, essentially, as Luckingham quoted an observer, “nailing the lid on the coffin of Downtown Phoenix.” January 16, 1962: Valley National Bank created a buzz with the announcement it would build a skyscraper Downtown. February 18, 1964: In a coordinated search, officials found 12 illegal “high odds” pinball machines operating within a mile of City Hall. 1967: The Civil Rights era was in full swing, and racial rioting occurred here as in other major U.S. metropolitan cities. Blacks demanded jobs, better parks for youths and more respect from police. 1970s While retail and small business owners had fled, the financial community staked its claim to Downtown. The skyline soared in the 1970s with new development. The pinnacle – in height anyway – came in 1972 when Valley National Bank, the glassy high-rise now known as Chase Tower, opened. At 40 stories, it remains Arizona’s tallest building. A celebration on Central Avenue rang in Phoenix’s 100th birthday in 1970, with parties later at the Hotel Adams and the Hotel Westward Ho. 1971: The First National Bank Plaza (now the Wells Fargo Plaza) opened. 1972: The Monroe School closed due to the declining Downtown population. The building has been restored and today houses the Children’s Museum of Phoenix. 1972: The $21 million Civic Plaza, home to convention space and the 2,575-seat Symphony Hall, was built over a slum known as “the Deuce.” 1973: The storied Hotel Adams came down to make way for the 532-room Hilton (now the Wyndham). 1973: Voters shot down the proposed elevated Papago Freeway. 1976: Patriot’s Square Park was completed. So was the Hyatt Regency Hotel, which occupied the block where Montgomery Ward had once been. 1980s By the 1980s, there were people crowded into local storefronts – but they were usually sleeping. “There was this hysteria about the transient population,” says Arizona Attorney General Terry Goddard, mayor of Phoenix from 1983 to 1990. While Downtown languished, midtown Phoenix and the Camelback corridor thrived. Tempers boiled over when developer and future Governor Fife Symington proposed the Camelback Esplanade project at 24th Street and Camelback Road. “The fight with Symington was epic and televised. It was a fight over where Downtown was going to be,” Goddard says. 1984: The City of Phoenix purchased the Orpheum Theatre, preserving its theatre palace architecture. After a massive renovation, it reopened in 1997. 1985: Phoenix now contained less than half of Maricopa County’s population, making Downtown less convenient and less relevant for those in outlying areas. 1986: Construction began on Renaissance Square, the first high-rise office building to go up in Downtown in a decade. 1989: The Herberger Theater opened. |
The new DUCE is open. It opened at 6pm today. Go Check it out. Its pretty sweet.
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Living in the Deuce
I lived on the streets of Phoenix on and off for 5 years (1981-1986) In the area of the Deuce. Knew nothing about being homeless prior to this... I credit the American Indian and Vinnie's ( St. Vincent Charity Dining Hall) soup kitchen for keeping me alive, especially during the first year... The Indians taught me how to deal with the heat and teaching me how to tell the time of day without a watch. Usually the only meal I had was at Vinnie's. When I first hit the streets , my wallet got stollen and I had no ID... so no food stamps, no welfare... And you had no bus money so you walked everywhere... And I met some of the most interesting people... Some you could not trust and some with a big heart that I hated to part with when I left Phoenix.
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Living in the Deuce
for Soled.. My life now... It has been a long time since I was in Phoenix.. I now live in Sacramento CA. I am 75, soon to be 76. I am retired and live in a senior apt. complex. I have health issues that tell me I will not be here too much longer, which is ok.. part of life. There is one special person from the Deuce that passed a long time ago that I am looking forward to be reunited with on the other side. In a way I am sorry the city tore the Deuce down... it had a life of its own, The videos of the "New" skid row does not seem to have the soul that the Deuce had.
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And there is something to be said for the soul and character in an area like the old Deuce, Perry. But it's still a challenging life, and surviving something like that brings you your own brand of character that no one else can touch and that you'll be able to minister off of forever. I hope your health somehow improves! |
WOW when I first saw this thread I thought it was for the Deuce in the warehouse district. I really don't have a store just memories when I was in my early twenties and has hired on at a large remodeling company. I was on a lets see how you do in a month before we put you on payroll. One of my tasks has to go downtown and pull permits at the building department. At that time building was on the 3rd floor of the now Calvin Goode building.I would drive to the Deuce area to park because that neighborhood had no parking meters.That was before they gave me a gas and parking allowance. I would walk from the Deuce to city hall to pull permits and never was panhandled in the area. I remember mostly the two Mexican restaurants Nogales Cafe and The Matador. I would have lunch at these places every time I went because the food was so great.The Matador later moved across the street from the Hyatt.
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