Say that on yelp talk, and you'll get permabanned. Ask me how I know.:haha:

Please don't say"Gay as hell"!!! Mainly because gay guys wouldn't even use "Cenpho". (ssssssssenfo) :)

how gay is hell anyway?

Well, watch south park, satan is gay with sadam hussein.

I just got that joke, they are making reference to the expression "gay as hell."

lmao

You make you laugh! LOL

As one who frequents Charlieeeeessss, I can say for certainty that I disagree with you there...:haha:

You would use Cenpho?!!! Clutch the pearls!!!

I always just say Phoenix Urban Center, or just PHUC.

"I always just say Phoenix Urban Center, or just PHUC." - Dude, you just made my day AWESOME.

If there was a university named after that would it be, PHUC U.?

http://www.azcentral.com/community/p...-overhaul.html

As developer friendly as most politicians are in Phx, I'm surprised there is any red tape at all. Just hand your councilman some cash & go build whatever you want with no regard to streetscaping, laws, or regulations. Unless of course you are an indian casino, then you can forget it.

So it looks like we may see some development on McDowell near My Florist sometime soon:

http://www.lawrenceandgeyser.com/7th...l-Brochure.pdf

If you look at that PDF it shows plans for a new retail strip, built right to the street between the current buildings and 5th Avenue. It would be great for that area, especially if they can fill in the unrented space in the existing buildings.

Two areas concern me though in their renderings:
1. Where is the My Florist sign? That thing is a neighborhood icon, they shouldn't take it down. Though their plans do note a "community florist" to be one of the future tenants, so perhaps the sign and name will have a revival.

2. I don't like that the new stuff they would be building is trying to mimic the old style. It'll never look as good and end up looking cheap and dumb. Plus it'll make the actual historic building seem less special. I hope they ditch that plan and go with something really modern and cool over to 5th ave.

Over on Vanishing Phoenix they mentioned there's rumors of a Paradise Bakery & In'N'Out being two of the tenants that would move in, that would be terrific I think. Though the In'N'Out might have to be sans drive through.

I do like that the renderings seem to imply they'd be getting rid of the small parking strip between the existing building and McDowell and replacing it with plantings and outdoor seating, thats a nice touch.

McDowell has so much potential in Central PHX, from over by the Fairgrounds all the way through the Miracle Mile to the 51 there's lots of street fronting retail and good bones. Its a shame that McDowell is so loud, fast moving and noisy, that kills the chance for it to ever become a pedestrian thoroughfare. Someday way down the line I'd love to have Modern Streetcar for 10 miles from 19th Ave to Scottsdale Rd, it would help make McDowell pedestrian as well as ease East-West traffic.

There is a tenant there now called Community Florist. I've worked with DiDi who owns it several times.

Regarding the sign, these people need to be aware that they will face consequences if the sign goes away.

A street car wouldn't be the appropriate mode tech for a 10 mile stretch.

^ It'd be better than the bus that's there now and if the capital costs weren't an issue, cheaper to run. Phoenix could do very well putting light rail on freeways and supermajor corridors and leave the streetcars for the narrower city streets to directly replace busses.

Phoenix right now has a pretty ugly template--3 lanes in that direction, 2 in the other, and a skinny sidewalk with no shade. Imagine if that extra lane went to wider, shady sidewalks or bike lanes and we threw a streetcar and some extra stop and HAWK lights in the mix. This could be repeated mile after mile in Phoenix.

Why not? You wouldn't put LRT there due to the cost, its also not a high density enough corridor, nor does it have the potential to be high density. A lot of McDowell does have the potential to be walkable though.

Modern Streetcar on McDowell could share traffic lanes but also have traffic light priority built in, making it much faster than buses. More people are likely to ride it than a bus as trains are usually more reliable and definitely a smoother ride. Plus you don't need a bus book to tell you which way a train is going, just look at the catenary.

The Modern Streetcar in Portland is a 7.8 mile loop and is looking to expand as a comparison, plus they're looking to expand 6 miles into Lake Oswego. You wouldn't necessarily have to build 10 miles in one shot either, Tempe is bringing their modern streetcar in phases. 19th Ave & McDowell to McDowell and the 51 could be a 1st phase, that would be 3.5 miles, that corridor especially has a ton of potential for walkability/urbanity.

A 7.8 mile loop = 3.9 miles one way. That's 40% of 10 miles, so not exactly an apples-to-apples. But the underlying issue with long streetcar routes is that since they interact with traffic, their headways are more variable, and headway variability is directly correlated to longer average wait times. Long average wait times at grade, and in Phoenix heat, is not a product that will impact Phoenicians' mode or living choices.

Streetcar can be good - just keep it short.
And yes, buses here suck. Buses are a looooong way out from being a viable mode for choice riders in Phoenix. Until this region has the stomach for a serious public transportation conversation, I ignore buses.

I agree with you. Streetcar routes at that length won't be any more efficient than busses, and given the location of the tracks (in the middle of the street) they will be harder to access than a bus.

And what's 3.9 miles plus 6? About 10.

Indeed their headways are more variable than LRT, but likely still vastly more reliable than bus. They'd be especially more reliable than bus if given light priority and used the same 'on your honor' ticketing system the LRT does to speed up people getting on and off.

I recall reading once that McDowell Rd was one of the busiest bus lines in the City, so it would stand to reason it would be a corridor worth looking at for Streetcar. Especially if in the future the Tempe Streetcar extended over to the Tempe Arts Center and then went North over Priest and into the Papago Park area, that could then connect with a McDowell Streetcar at Galvin.

Modern streetcar in this situation wouldn't likely run down the Middle of the street. There's not room in the McDowell R.O.W. to put lanes for streetcars in each direction AND stations, the stations would have to be off the sidewalk.

The set up would likely have to be (going from the north side of the road to the south):

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-West bound trains traveling in a shared lane, the Northernmost lane. With stops/stations being shaded facilities on the sidewalk.
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- The next lane to the South would be another West bound traffic lane
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- The next lane to the South would be another West bound traffic lane
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- a VERY small (2' wide or so) median, likely just concrete for safety
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- The next lane South would be East bound traffic
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- The next lane South would also be East bound traffic
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- The Southernmost lane would be East bound traffic and Eastbound streetcars in a shared lane
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Also if you did keep traffic in 2 lanes each way you could perhaps do away with the streetcars having to be shared lanes, thus much increasing their speed. The Streetcar could be a in a dedicated lane, perhaps only shared for when cars need to make turns at major intersections & shared with bicycles (I've seen a similar setup before).

19th Ave to Scottsdale Rd on McDowell with the current bus set up is at least a 45 minute trip, that could likely be cut down to around 30 minutes with a Streetcar system like described above.

I do see the value of the lightrail and the potential for commuter rail and modern streetcars. Sadly, while I have traveled by commuter rail in many cities, I still haven't ridden the lightrail here as it is actually out of my way to do so. For me, the buses are still the most viable form of alternative transportation based on where I live. The only reason I would have to take the lightrail would be if I decided to go downtown, and I would still need to drive or bus it to a lightrail station. If I ever did work in a location that would be withing walking distance of a lightrail station, and I didn't live too far from a station myself, I would certainly ride it.

^ You do realize the park and rides exist for a reason?