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-   -   CHICAGO | The 78 Site (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=233449)

Leveled Jan 4, 2019 3:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuildThemTaller (Post 8425764)
This is getting a little confusing. I put together a crude map to see if I understand what is going on along the South Branch. Is this right?

https://i.imgur.com/zNzUbkAl.jpg
Someone needs to get drunk, steal a bulldozer, and remake the east<>west roads down there.

harryc Jan 4, 2019 3:33 PM
In what world is that the South bank ?

Busy Bee Jan 4, 2019 9:50 PM
It's south. It's a bank. Therefore it's Southbank because the marketing firm says so.

SIGSEGV Jan 4, 2019 10:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by harryc (Post 8425840)
In what world is that the South bank ?
It's south of all the banks on Lasalle St? jk.

Steely Dan Jan 4, 2019 10:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 8426275)
It's south. It's a bank. Therefore it's Southbank because the marketing firm says so.
but "South Bank" is a little too wordy.

the hip kids will truncate it to "SoBa".

BuildThemTaller Jan 4, 2019 11:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 8425834)
The 78 only extends south to 16th (actually to the railroad), and Roosevelt Collection extends north to 9th. Alta is a brand name already in use for several buildings; the two at Harrison & Wells will be Alta Grand Central.

See the map at southloopupdate.
Groovy. Thanks!

BonoboZill4 Jan 5, 2019 12:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan (Post 8426316)
but "South Bank" is a little too wordy.

the hip kids will truncate it to "SoBa".
:haha: :haha: :haha:

Don't give them any ideas Steely

Mr Downtown Jan 11, 2019 3:06 AM
This afternoon, Ald. Dowell announced that she wouldn't support a new Red Line station at 15th & Clark.

The Crain's story this evening, though, has this unexpected news:

In response to Dowell's statement today, Related issued its own saying it will pivot and instead place the CTA station on the southwest corner of that intersection—which is in the 25th Ward, run by Ald. Daniel Solis—and on land Related owns.

"We're pleased to announce that the new station will be moved to The 78, on the west side of Clark Street. We are grateful for every opportunity to work with Alderman Dowell and the community as part of our process to build and improve The 78 and surrounding communities," Related Midwest President Curt Bailey said in a statement.


Unexpected because over weeks of study I haven't been able to figure out how they can put the platform west of Clark. There's just not enough room for a 500-foot platform plus the 750 feet of incline needed to get over 18th. Maybe shifting the entrance will be enough.

Mr Downtown Jan 11, 2019 3:07 AM
This afternoon, Ald. Dowell announced that she wouldn't support a new Red Line station at 15th & Clark.

The Crain's story this evening, though, has this unexpected news:

In response to Dowell's statement today, Related issued its own saying it will pivot and instead place the CTA station on the southwest corner of that intersection—which is in the 25th Ward, run by Ald. Daniel Solis—and on land Related owns.

"We're pleased to announce that the new station will be moved to The 78, on the west side of Clark Street. We are grateful for every opportunity to work with Alderman Dowell and the community as part of our process to build and improve The 78 and surrounding communities," Related Midwest President Curt Bailey said in a statement.


Unexpected because over weeks of study I haven't been able to figure out how they can put the platform west of Clark. There's just not enough room for a 500-foot platform plus the 750 feet of incline needed to get over 18th. Maybe shifting the entrance will be enough.

ardecila Jan 11, 2019 3:37 AM
^ Interesting. Solis won't be around by the time this thing needs to get approved, though. Whoever ultimately okays this thing will be one of four young Latinx Millennials, who may not have the heart to tell Dearborn Park mothers to kick rocks.

From an engineering standpoint, it's not impossible to build platforms on a slope or on a curve. I saw several stations in NYC recently with a noticeable slope to the platform. But I do agree that the station box will have to extend beneath Clark and onto the CTA's property at the southeast corner even if it doesn't cross the line of 15th.

Mr Downtown Jan 11, 2019 4:00 AM
NYCTA, though, uses air brakes. Because CTA uses dynamic braking—and had a bad experience when a train rolled backwards from the Addison Blue Line station in the 1990s—I don't think they'll want to accept a platform with a noticeable slope.

It's not really clear that aldermanic approval is needed for a subterranean station, though Dowell's opposition could keep a station site east of Clark out of the TIF district. Dearborn Park II is entirely within the 3rd Ward, so whoever becomes 25th Ward alderman doesn't have to care about them at all.

the urban politician Jan 11, 2019 4:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 8432847)
^ Interesting. Solis won't be around by the time this thing needs to get approved, though. Whoever ultimately okays this thing will be one of four young Latinx Millennials, who may not have the heart to tell Dearborn Park mothers to kick rocks.

From an engineering standpoint, it's not impossible to build platforms on a slope or on a curve. I saw several stations in NYC recently with a noticeable slope to the platform. But I do agree that the station box will have to extend beneath Clark and onto the CTA's property at the southeast corner even if it doesn't cross the line of 15th.
Why would an Alderman who doesn’t represent Dearborn Park need to appease them?

Also, why would you even need Alderman approval for a station on CTA ROW, especially if you only have a stairwell entrance?

AMWChicago Jan 11, 2019 4:18 AM
Wow. God Damn I love Related. After seeing the Crain headline today about Dowell vetoing station I was put into a funk.

And now Related has the cahonas to just switch wards and go on with it. That's a city that works, and that's not making little plans. Related's ready to play hard ball with these mouth breathing NIMBYs and I LIKE IT!

I know this is ALL massive speculation and nothing is set in stone, but it just feels good for once that developers one up the NIMBYs and with such haste.

the urban politician Jan 11, 2019 4:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMWChicago (Post 8432873)
Wow. God Damn I love Related. After seeing the Crain headline today about Dowell vetoing station I was put into a funk.

And now Related has the cahonas to just switch wards and go on with it. That's a city that works, and that's not making little plans. Related's ready to play hard ball with these mouth breathing NIMBYs and I LIKE IT!

I know this is ALL massive speculation and nothing is set in stone, but it just feels good for once that developers one up the NIMBYs and with such haste.
I think Related was prepared for this to happen, and had this as their back-up plan.

Mr Downtown Jan 11, 2019 4:49 AM
There's not really great opposition, even within DPII, to any station. There was opposition to the stationhouse east of Clark, and there's (lesser) opposition to the extensive disturbance of Cottontail Park.

From the very beginning, Related wanted the station west of Clark. But they felt it was impractically expensive to put it there. Then they were pretty clumsy in their presentation to the neighborhood, and paid the price with Ald. Dowell. I don't know what has changed in their calculations, but nothing about this is a matter of "sticking it to the NIMBYs."

SIGSEGV Jan 11, 2019 4:54 AM
they can have the station where they wanted but put the headhouse west of Clark, right? I have no idea where the station is at North/Clybourn, for example, since it's a bit of a walk to the headhouse.

Mr Downtown Jan 11, 2019 5:12 AM
^That's an interesting question. Does an improvement to infrastructure require any sort of aldermanic approval? It wouldn't seem to require any amendment of the Dearborn Park II PD, since it's not a building with FAR. I'm not aware that a new subterranean station needs a special-use permit. But Cottontail Park will have to be within the TIF for TIF money to be spent there, and that question comes up tomorrow at Joint Review Board. Moreover, I just can't see how such a shallow station can be built without doing cut-and-cover. That will mean various aldermanic approvals.

I can only speculate that Related and Ald. Dowell came to an agreement today that led to both their announcements on the eve of getting the TIF district approved.

emathias Jan 11, 2019 7:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan (Post 8426316)
but "South Bank" is a little too wordy.

the hip kids will truncate it to "SoBa".
Hopefully that would mean some great ramen places ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 8432847)
^ Interesting. Solis won't be around by the time this thing needs to get approved, though. Whoever ultimately okays this thing will be one of four young Latinx Millennials, who may not have the heart to tell Dearborn Park mothers to kick rocks.

From an engineering standpoint, it's not impossible to build platforms on a slope or on a curve. I saw several stations in NYC recently with a noticeable slope to the platform. But I do agree that the station box will have to extend beneath Clark and onto the CTA's property at the southeast corner even if it doesn't cross the line of 15th.
I think I've been on sloped platforms in Paris, Madrid, and Barcelona. Also, the Maverick station on the Blue Line in Boston is sloped. Worked okay.

Jim in Chicago Jan 11, 2019 6:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SIGSEGV (Post 8432904)
they can have the station where they wanted but put the headhouse west of Clark, right? I have no idea where the station is at North/Clybourn, for example, since it's a bit of a walk to the headhouse.
Just laughing at the example. I've used the North/Clybourn station thousands of times over the years, and even as a person with good relative postition skills, I can't figure out how you get from the platforms to the station. Northbound sort of makes sense, but when entering Southbound I always feel turned around when I get to the platform and can't figure out how I got there.

ardecila Jan 11, 2019 7:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 8432861)
Why would an Alderman who doesn’t represent Dearborn Park need to appease them?

Also, why would you even need Alderman approval for a station on CTA ROW, especially if you only have a stairwell entrance?
Mr. D covered why the station might need aldermanic support, there's all kinds of approvals from CDOT and other agencies (including a rezoning of The 78 land and CTA's ventilation parcel) that require the alderman's signoff, in 99.9% of cases it's just a formality since aldermen usually support big transportation projects in their wards.

As for Danny Solis - virtually all the people running for his seat are Carlos Rosa wannabes, extremely progressive and idealistic young Latinx candidates. None of them have held public office before, and they will probably be uncomfortable with Chicago-style dealmaking, especially to benefit a big developer like Related.

They share a Jane Jacobs belief that the community is always right, so they may support Dearborn Parkers in their quest to kill the station even though they are technically on the other side of the ward line.


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