That is ENTIRELY wrong. In the Western US where there is an abundance of natural gas, that is how they are fed (the natural gas is coverted to hydrogen and the off-gassing is used in other ways). Fuel cells are becoming very common in all sorts of places that require large energy use (industrial plants, community pools, large office buildings) and recently they've even become small and efficient enough for larger homes with large energy loads (the extra generated heat is then used to heat the pool).

In fact fuel cells are far more efficient power sources for buildings than they are vs. mobile uses (cars, etc).

With respect to landowner liability in Arizona:

This is actually one of the areas where I think Arizona nails it perfectly. More states should follow our lead. The issue revolves around the duty of the landowner (same as property and homeowner for the purposes of this point).

1. The highest duty is owed to business invitees. This includes the duty to warn and protect of known hazards (actual notice), and hazards that should have been known through the ordinary course of business (constructive notice). There is no liability in any case for unknown hazards, therefore, in order to "have a case," the injured party has the burden of proving that the defendant knew of the dangerous condition prior to the injury. This is called actual notice, but is sometimes referred to as prior notice. Generally, with no notice, there is no case, and the plaintiff's lawsuit would not survive a motion for summary judgment. There is a theory for constructive notice but that is almost impossible to meet.*

2. The middle duty is owed to employees and people with implied or constructive permission to be on your property. This includes the duty to warn of known hazards. However, employees covered by the worker's comp laws in Arizona do not have liability to employees injured on the job or in the course and scope of their employment, so this is really quite limited. In practice, this more or less merges with (1) above. If you can prove prior notice, you probably can prevail in a lawsuit.

3. The lowest duty is owed to trespassers. This is the best one of all - basically you are immune from suit if a trespasser is injured on your property. The only two exceptions arise if a) you set a trap for someone - even a thief; and b) if the attractive nuisance doctrine applies. Attractive nuisance only applies to children who are not old enough to properly appreciate the risk (this is tangentially related to the concept of the assumption of the risk, which I discuss below) and are attracted onto your property by something like a trampoline or unfenced swimming pool.

Assumption of the risk (AotR) is a legal defense that can be a complete bar to recovery, meaning the plaintiff gets nothing. Basically, if you are able to appreciate the risk and engage in said activity anyway, you cannot recover for your stupidity. This applies to every single injury claim in Arizona. This is how we can have skate parks in Arizona, for example, because even smaller children can appreciate the risk a skateboard on a 45 degree concrete slope presents. The standard is measured by what a reasonable person, of similar age and mental status, in a similar conditions would do. This means if you, as an adult, climb an object and fall, no matter whether you were a guest or a trespasser, you won't be able to sue anyone for your injuries. AotR is a beautiful thing and keeps people honest. It manifests itself in a specific jury instruction which the defense will have the judge read to the jury in a civil action (assuming the plaintiff somehow, miraculously, survived a motion for summary judgment). The instruction usually reads as follows:

"If you, the jury, reasonably find that the plaintiff could appreciate the risk of the activity that resulted in the injury, and voluntarily engaged in said activity, then you must award the plaintiff zero for their injuries. Do not be swayed by sympathy for the plaintiff's plight; as a society, we do not wish to reward people for being stupid or reckless."

*Do not be swayed by these varying levels of duty. Regardless, juries in Arizona tend to be very conservative. They don't like people who sue for injuries and as a result, the plaintiff's personal injury attorney has an uphill battle to fight from the very beginning. For example, even under the highest duty as set forth in (1) above, it is still next to impossible to win these cases at trial. Statistically, according to the trial reporters in Arizona, plaintiffs lose about 70% of all slip and fall, or premises liability cases, and about 60% of motor vehicle collision cases. Proving actual notice can be very difficult. Constructive notice (the "should have known" argument) is even tougher. Plaintiffs only prevail in about 5% of constructive notice cases.

So, knowing this, I'm not sure where a jury would hose a landowner who simply planted some trees and kept the lot watered. It would be a very difficult case to win in Arizona, and that's generally how it should be.

--don

^Sweet sounds good, thanks for the knowledge. Though know Im kinda annoyed we haven't been requiring the dirt lot owners to do something with their land already.

Hmm...I had no idea...

Had no idea that the hipsters were invading with their shitty music and pseudo gay attitude?

Alright I was about to move the last two pages into the Coffee Talk thread but just said fuck it.

More talk about places opening up and whatnot. All the other stuff goes where it goes. :)

It went along the alignment of an old filled in canal. If you stare long enough at google maps at the right zoom level you eventually start to see all sorts of nifty physiological features of Phoenix.

I know John will disagree but I love the District and absolutely love anything that Chef Nathan puts out. The guy makes some amazing food. I'm not real big on going during the DJ nights but it's a great after work spot and the happy hour can't be beat.

I liked it a lot when I went.

I like district. You know that. I just dont like hipsters.

^Um, what the hell is a "hipster"?

Having reread the article and found both the dancers' facebooks, I'd say it's rather ungay. Anything involving dancing at a gay bar lacks any artistic merit whatsoever. I wish gay bars would have a scene like this...anything to break the onslaught of bad techno and top 40 played at every joint in the city.

What's even weirder about this taking place in the Sheraton, is that the Sheraton is city owned.

This article in the new times summed up my suspicion well back when they bandied about the whole idea to begin with.

Who freaking knew that Phoenix could pull this off? The whole article is worth a read in modern context. Maybe I'm an old man but seven years just wasn't that long ago and it's almost like ... things have changed.

He was right about the convention center. We only doubled attendance for the first full year of operation, not tripled as the studies promised.

A lot of pedestrian activity in DT the past couple of days. Too bad 90% of them are not Phoenicians enjoying the afternoon/evening in their own city.

It can't be any worse than the Jersey Shore cast right? Fist pump!!!:koko:

hipster = straight homosexual. Thats the best I can describe it.

No no thats a metrosexual. Hipsters are people who can basically be defined by being too cool for school. They listen to terrible music, don't dance, wear t-shirts 2 to 3 sizes too small, have mussy haircuts, often don't look you in the eye when you talk, etc.

http://www.the-fed.org/media/volume2...er_hipster.png

Listens to bands that you have never heard of. Has hairstyle that can only be described as "complicated." (Most likely achieved by a minimum of one week not washing it.) Probably tattooed. Maybe gay. Definitely cooler than you. Reads Black Book, Nylon, and the Styles section of the New York Times. Drinks Pabst Blue Ribbon. Often. Complains. Always denies being a hipster. Hates the word. Probably living off parents money - and spends a great deal of it to look like they don't have any. Has friends and/or self cut hair. Dyes it frequently (black, white-blonde, etc. and until scalp bleeds). Has a closet full of clothing but usually wears same three things OVER AND OVER (most likely very tight black pants, scarf, and ironic tee-shirt). Chips off nail polish artfully after $50 manicure. Sleeps with everyone and talks about it at great volume in crowded coffee shops. Addicted to coffee, cigarettes (Parliaments, Kamel Reds, Lucky Strikes, etc.), and possibly cocaine. Claims to be in a band. Rehearsals consist of choosing outfits for next show and drinking PBR. Always on the list. Majors or majored in art, writing, or queer studies. Name-drops. May go by "Penny Lane," "Eleanor Rigby," etc. when drunk. On PBR. Which is usually.

Google tells us that hipsters =

http://www.no2emo.com/wp-content/upl...5/hipster2.jpg

I can't stand the look of the 2nd guy (in the center)...worst look ever! Skinny jeans on guys are horrible, I don't care how in fashion they would ever get, I wouldn't be caught dead in them.

I've been calling them "First Fridays."


As in, I hate those fucking first fridays douches.

Speaking of music, and I don't mean to hijack this thread, but can anyone suggest a good place to go for drinks and listen to live music of any sorts? I'm in town until Wednesday and would love to find a place to drink, relax, listen to music and maybe sneak a peak at some nice eye candy of the female persuasion? :)

If there is a more appropriate thread for this question, feel free to post any replies there.

Thanks!

Voce, Kazimierz, Bobby's, Estate House, Char's, Rhythym Room, and Blue Martini are all places full of hot sluts and have live music.

If you're older than 40, go to Voce, Bobby's, or Estate House. If you are looking for a dive (not attractive women) go to Char's or Rhytym Room. If you're looking for 20-40's crowd, go to Blue Martini or Kazimierz.

http://www.voceaz.com/
http://www.kazbar.net/
http://www.mancusosrestaurant.com/bobbys/index.htm
http://www.estatehouseaz.com/upstairs.php
http://www.bluemartinilounge.com/
http://www.charshastheblues.com/
http://www.rhythmroom.com/

VLJ, you have a weird perception of homosexuality. Gay people aren't nearly as interesting as you describe.

Gay people listen to an onslaught of bad techno and overplayed pop music.

It is extremely rare to see a gay guy with hair longer than 1/2". Fauxhawks dominate, much to my nausea.

something you see on straight guys WAY more often.

Where?

ok, pretension is one thing the homos have.

gay people don't read.

Gay people drink Bud Light, cheap cocktails, or occasionally wine if they're nesting at home.

LOL. Ok.

Gay people get out of the house ASAP, and spend all their damn money to make it look like they have some.

Not something gay people do.

Gay people wear blue, exclusively. Go into BS West on any given night and it's like a concentration camp.

The homos that were nail polish are almost entirely dissed on by the quasi-masculinity complex.

Ok.

Coffee, definitely. Cigarettes are too passe.

Gay people do not play instruments. At all.

I don't know anything gay around here that has a list.

Again, not gay.

OK.

Maybe. But not likely.

needless to say I'm quite jaded.

Vicelord wasn't talking about gay people, he was talking about hipsters.

Sean.... You completely missed the joke.

Honest question, are you gay? You've made several comments that make me wonder. I just wonder cause you seem to stand up for them a lot.

Yes I know, I didn't miss any joke. VLJ said hipters were like straight homosexuals, then began to describe everything that gay people are not.

I didn't think I was standing up for gay people, if anything I was dissing every last one of their establishments and nearly everything I know of the stereotype. I've been extremely burned out with that scene if you can't tell.

While we're on the topic of the latest fashion trends in America, I'd like to point out a personal observation of mine. I don't know if they'd be classified as "hipsters" or what, but there are times when I can't tell if a passerby (in DT or even at a suburban mall) is a homeless person, or just an ultra MTV zombie, trendy, alternative, "hipster", that shops at Urban Outfitters (an overpriced chain store pretending to be an unique urban outpost) walking by. (This also includes the hip/hop culture too).

We, as a society, have become too casual and appear to be complete slobs. I'd love to see the day when people actually shower and clean up before going out in public. People used to wear nice clothes to sporting events, planes/trains, shopping DT etc. Now, the cool thing is to appear as unkept as possible, and to come across totally uneducated, or like a thug.

The process for separating hydrogen elements from natural bonds is very energy intensive. The efficiency in the natural gas > hydrogen > fuel cell > electricity cycle is fairly low, typically around 35-45% (about the same as coal and natural gas fired plants); yes you can increase that by using the heat byproduct generated in a variety of ways but it's not the most optimal (taking into consideration limited use and transportation losses). Ultimately it is a substitution of one finite fuel for another.

Mind you, I'm not saying it isn't an improvement (mainly because it's less polluting) however it's not a very big one.

I mentioned mobile fuel cells because they are currently a better alternative to batteries in terms of energy storage and output to size.

I have no idea what a hipster is but I like at least some of their music since M83 are apparently hipsters.

Actually the efficiencies are much more than that based on the fact that you wouldn't put in a fuel cell at a building unless you used the heat byproduct ONSITE. At a house you use it for heating the pool and hot water uses. In a skyscraper, it could be easily used to satisfy any hot water need and also to satisfy a substantial portion of the heating loads of the building. There is no transportation loss.

Take the energy generated and add a flow battery of some type to store any extra energy and you can vastly increase the efficiency even more.

But yes, it does increase the natural gas loads substantially (but it's much cheaper).

reading the last 2 pages reminded me exactly why phoenix is the way it is.

if the alabama chapter of USAA had a message board entitled Shit Old People Say, that would have been it.

good fucking lord, very intense.

You people have a lot of stereotypes about people. The gay community is very diverse and is full of very different people. As far as "hipsters" downtown, why hate on them so much? Isn't that what we want downtown? Bars that are hopping and busy? First people complain how downtown is dead, and now you hate on people that are livening it up?

Vicelord, do you like anybody?

They are typically the type who walk into an establishment and spend little (if any) money and then complain and act like they own the place. They are typically inconsiderate as can be, and if you go to first friday and one tries to run you off the sidewalk, you'll notice it more and more.

And yeah, I like lots of people. I like people with a head on their shoulders, who excersize humility, and are considerate to other people... as long as they don't smell.

Theoretical efficiency can go up to 70% in the cases you mention however you know very well actual yields are quite different. The efficiency of fuel cells also decrease proportional to the energy demand placed on them.

My point is, I do not consider the technology to be renewable on the level of wind or solar but merely a better alternative to coal or nuclear. What I don't understand is why this state doesn't capitalize on solar thermal power plants, there are ways to store the energy for night time use.

Passion and drama are "Shit Old People Say"? I guess people in Austin fart rainbows and smell of cinnamon buns.

Regarding a past posting about the construction debris at the Qwest demolition site, this is from Councilman Tom Simplot's Monthly Email.

Update on Qwest Builing Demolition/Clean-Up

The former Qwest building at the corner of 3rd St. and Earll Dr. was imploded last year on September 26, 2009 with a condition that debris was to be removed by the end of December. The property owners are now in default of this demolition permit and the City has formally contacted the insurance company to collect on the performance bond. During this administrative process, we will insure that the property remains secure for the safety of residents.

We will keep you posted as the performance bond process progresses. In the meantime, if you notice any suspicious activity on the property, I encourage you to contact the Phoenix Police Department (602-262-6151) and my office (602-262-7447).

I was chatting with a guy who represents a group trying to get a pro soccer team in Phoenix (USL not MLS) and he said they have their eyes on the Greyhound park for a stadium. Any thoughts?

Spectacular location. I've never been inside the Greyhound park so I can't speak about the stadium itself, but I love the location. It's in the middle of town, it's at a light rail stop, and it'd be convenient for me :D

Doesn't Skyharbor own that land and don't they plan on eventually building another runway?

It's three stops away from my house, so I'd love it.

They might own the land, but they will never be able to build a new runway there unless the can convince Honeywell. The only way Honeywell will move is if the City builds them a new complex which is estimated at a couple billion. They have machines built into building there, it won't be easy or quick to move them.

Maybe a temporary lease pending on the runway if it happens. Then the team could find a new location. I would rather see the land and stadium used for something. That would be exciting!!!

A runway on that location won't work for several reasons. Whoever came up with that idea is a world class dolt.

I worked at Allied Signal before it became Honeywell, so I'm pretty familiar with the details surrounding their lease. Still considering the airport's tactics of tearing down entire neighborhoods and letting the land sit baron for over three decades before anything gets built seems counter to the idea of letting a stadium get built on their property.

He said that the current dog track is almost the exact length and width needed for a pitch (120yards by 80 yards) and that renovations would primarily be done to the existing grandstand only. It would not be enclosed but that games would be at night and that fans could pay to sit in the A/C sections of the grand stand.
It was a pretty underwhelming presentation he made but I liked the idea. He was going for cost effective means for drawing a USL-1 level team. I imagine the cost they were looking at putting into renovations probably has something to do with the plans for the land in the future with regards to Sky Harbor.

That would be a horrible idea if they are. Sky Harbor's location is already a complete pain, they don't need to be expanding and making it worse. Mesa-Gateway is where expansion of that sort needs to be happening.

^Despite the fact that it'll never happen...why is a 4th runway a 'horrible idea'?

Sky Harbor does own the land the dog track sits on but I wasn't under the impression that they were planning another runway there, it would seem too far North from the rest of them. I thought the plan was to add another runway somewhere else and then move things like maintenance facilities and other warehouse type stuff to where the greyhound track sits.

hoov, that might make more sense seeing as it would be a 10 minute taxi just to get to a runway up on washington. Not to mention they would have to clear out all those businesses and have planes basically landing on washington street.

Either way, I'd rather they either bring the puppies back or some mexicans to play soccer.

Sky harbor's flight paths already interfere with construction in both DT Tempe and DT Phoenix, why add more flight paths? Why add more traffic when traffic into/out of sky harbor is already a clusterfuck, especially around the holidays? and, most importantly, why take out such a large amount of centrally located real estate along the light rail line that could be put to such more productive use... like a soccer stadium?

Williams-Gateway may be out in the middle of nowhere for 3/4 of the valley, but so are many other major airports, and those cities get along fine. I have no problem letting Sky Harbor reach capacity and then if you want a cheaper fare at the less congested airport you have to drive out to Williams-Gateway. Sort of how Reagan National is typically more expensive even though it's more convenient and Dulles is typically cheaper even though it's out in the middle of no where. If you want to be able to use the centrally located airport that's convenient to transit, you're going to have to pay for it. I'm all for modernizing the airport within its existing footprint, but I see no logical reason to continue expanding runways at Sky Harbor.

:previous: I agree with you but here is my laymen’s understanding of the reasoning. Phoenix owns Sky Harbor and has had a protectionist attitude towards it for years, just ask Tempe. As far as the importance to Phoenix between our CBD and Sky Harbor, Sky Harbor wins, even if it means nothing taller than a pair of Chuck Taylors gets built downtown for years. As far as Gateway, well Phoenix doesn’t own it.

Actually, Phoenix Gateway Airport is partially owned by the City of Phoenix and several East Valley cities.