I asked what cities have done it our studied it?

The answer appears to be none.

Perhaps we need to change this to a bitch slapping group rather than a discussion group?

at least the CTA is trying things. Even if it ends up being a failure, at least they recognized the issue and are doing something to try to solve it. As my semi-alcohol induced post stated a few pages back, metra and pace aren't doing anything at all to try to correct their problems. Until the state or federal legislature gives transit a chance, expect "duct tape" like solutions. In some ways, chicago's mass transit has it tougher than any other city. Unlike other aged systems, like new york's, it only semi-recently has seen increased ridership, and lucky enough for them, it is coinciding with rising fuel costs. So this means, that for many years, there wasn't enough attention to keep it well-funded. On the other hand, cities that are just now building mass-transit (like the sun-belt) have the benefit of having a newer system and being able to build after urban renewal so they only build to where current population density is, not where it used to be.

Really, cut the CTA some slack, they've have made leaps and bounds over the past 6-12 months. I think Huberman has definitely changed the tone of the organization, whereas metra has yet to incorporate modern technology such as electricity into their ticketing operations.

I'd also like to see them go all standing for sox games. Most people only ride from 35th to jackson, maybe up to chicago/grand. They could fit a ton more people if they were all standing cars.

^^You are right. Overall Ron has done a great job. I am just curious why no one else ever thought to do this. Guess I expect either someone saying it has been done or a discussion about the pros-cons.

you're the only one fixated on this. and people have come out in favor of it. I have and plenty others have as well.

It's a pragmatic move. The negatives are few since most cars will still have seating and funding for CTA isn't really a priority to state government. While a better solution would be more frequent train service, chicago won't get that.

the U.S. does not put priorities into mass transit. Even nYc has cut funding to MTA by $61 million. Their overall budget is down 4% in the past 4 years. Unless everyone starts lobbying government for better transit, the minimum will be done by our lawmakers in Springfield and Washington.

Granted, you have to wade through a bit of attitude to see it in our posts*, but most of our replies did address why chicago is different than other cities and why this might impact Chicago's decision to try this. For instance, in my post:

Snarky? Yes. But I do wonder how 5 lines converging in the loop effects minimum headways. I'd think the loop would eventually become a bottleneck, limiting the number of trains each line could run. Other systems might just keep increasing the number of trains, because their separated track would support them. Just a theory...but plausible.

Taft


* Attitude breeds attitude, I suppose...

I think it's a great idea to have two seatless cars on the brown line. It's only 25% of the train that will be without cars, it's not like EVERY car is going to have standing room only. If you don't like it, sit in the 75% of the train with seats.

I use to get on at Diversey, and for 4 years I never even once thought about getting a seat. My only concern was actually being able to squeeze on a train without waiting for 3 of them to go by.



Also, saw this lovely article this morning. Gotta love the devil's butthole working hard to destroy our state. It's like talking to your financial advisor when you're being forced to declare bankruptcy, and his advice is to maybe lease out a new car or buy a nice bedroom set.


RTA warns of service cuts or fare increases to make up for governor's budget cut
Most of the money paid for senior citizens' free rides


Mass-transit service cuts or fare hikes might be needed to make up for a $37.3 million fare subsidy that Gov. Rod Blagojevich chopped from the state's budget, Regional Transportation Authority officials warned Thursday.

Most of the money helped cover the free rides that Blagojevich gave senior citizens in January. The rest subsidized a long-standing program providing reduced-fare rides for students and the disabled.

Losing the money could make it even tougher for the transit agencies to pay for free rides for the low-income disabled, a program the legislature approved in May that is awaiting the governor's signature.

RTA Executive Director Steve Schlickman called Blagojevich's veto of the subsidy last week "an unfortunate action."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,4414129.story

Blago is such a dumbf*ck.

:previous: Perhaps I haven't been in the Chicago area long enough, but these constant budget crisis with mass transit are getting old. Is this a constant for Chicago or is Blago just a tool?

Historically, it's been cyclical, with crises about every 10 years and lasting for a couple years.

The crisis in the early 80s was probably the worst, when doomsday actually went into effect amidst legislative gridlock (commuter rail fares doubled, etc.).

Prior to that, the previous crises were in the early 60s (nationwide, when UMTA was created to provide subsidy) and the early 70s (when the RTA was created to collect transit taxes in the entire region to fund transit).

The last crisis period was in the mid 90s when federal operating subsidies ended, which culminated in the substantial service cuts in 1997. Things were "fine" again until about 2004, and it's been nonstop since then; first, the problem was dealt with consecutive fare hikes. This latest funding package should have kept things steady for the next 10 years with a periodic minor fare increase, but then Blago decided to muck everything up. Twice.

Yes he is... and not the only DF pol in city/county. Here a couple to go with him, Mike Madigan, Emil Jones and Todd "nepotism" Stroger.::koko:

Well I like to post compliments & complaints about the CTA in this thread and I'll post a compliment today. :) It only took me 20 minutes to ride the red line from Monroe to Addison yesterday evening. I got on the train at 8:51pm and got off at 9:11pm. Considering the slow zone is still in place between Clark & Division and Armitage, a 20 minute commute is an impressive feat. :tup:

Here we go agian. Does Gov. Ass Clown realize that he hurts more Illinois residents than helps with his stupid idoligies. Don't get me wrong, I am in favor of the Seniors Ride Free Program, but damnit put your money where the mouth is; and give proirity to seniors with low fixed incomes if the state doesn't have the funds for a full program. He better not sign that bill for disabled folks to ride free too. A discount fare is better than no bus at all, which is now once agian a very real issue. Now the rest of us all must suffer, including the very population he was trying to help for his own political gain.

I AM SO F***ING PISSED right now. Can we pleased send this crook to jail yet? Find something, anything to put him away. :hell:



------------------------------

ON the Truman Park and Ride, well the land was being used for parking already; and the Wilson Station should be seeing an increase in boarding due to Wilson Yards now moving forward. Plus I expect every park n' ride space to filled on every day a Cubs game is held, because at $2 to park + train fair, this is competively priced to lure families comming in by car from the north and northwest suburbs. The scarrated lots near Wriggley are what, $15-$20 for Game day parking (I really don't know, I don't drive). Montrose is also eaiser to navigate on Game Days than Addison.

I've been telling all my friends for about a year now that a massive party will be held at my place the Friday night following any combination of: the indictment/impeachment/conviction/sentencing/incarceration of Blagojevich. I dream of a courtroom scene wherein the jury foreman reads the verdict, then presses a button triggering Kool & the Gang - "Celebration" and confetti streamers while the entire state erupts in joy on the next new state holiday.

I thought that last one was incineration at first ....

I hope that if the RTA does have to raise fares they name the increase. You know, like ball parks get names or some concerts get names or "brought to you by" subtitles ...

This RTA fare increase brought to you by Governor Rod Blagojevich. Additional lack of funding courtesy of the Illinois House and Senate.

Tokyo currently has several rail lines which use standee-only cars, including the Yamanote Line, Yokohama Line, and Tokyu Den'en Toshi Line. At most, it is only two cars in each consist (out of 8 to 11 cars total, depending on the line) that are configured to operate this way, and usually for only the morning commute period, which has the highest loads. The cars actually contain seats, but they are the "fold-up" type and are locked until 9:30 or 10:00 in the morning, at which point the operator unlocks the seats with a switch he controls and the seats become usable.

The headways on these lines are on the order of 2 to 2.5 minutes, so any delays can blow up quickly. Since the standee-only cars carry more people than the average car, in order to get people in and out effectively without impacting dwell time at stations, the cars are also configured with six doors on a side vs. the usual four. The cars are usually easily identifiable, and are given special branding such as stickers above the doors to distinguish them from the other cars. The cars always occupy the same position in the consist (i.e., cars 7 and 10 on the Yamanote Line, cars 5 and 8 on the Tokyu Den'en Toshi Line, etc.) so that passengers always know which cars will be standee-only. The position in the consist is usually chosen based on which cars have the most crowding, usually coinciding with the location of stairs, escalators, etc. at terminal stations. Vertical floor-to-ceiling poles are installed along the middle of the car a la Hong Kong or Shanghai (these are not provided in the regular stock), in addition to the usual grips and bars.

JR East 204 Series six-door car on the Yokohama Line, in standee-only configuration
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...04standing.jpg

Inside a six-door car on the Yamanote Line as the seats are unlocked
posted by pgstones on Flickr
• Video Link

The cars certainly help to relieve the crush loading and are useful if you are carrying big luggage or other items, as there is more wiggle room than a standard car.


As for how this relates to Chicago, I question whether running standee-only cars is the most effective way to increase capacity in the short run. It would seem that a better solution would be to change as much of the fleet from transverse seating to longitudinal seating as possible, although having a few cars lose all seats may sound better to the average rider than having all cars lose a few seats. Another issue would be getting people in and out of the cars--a third door certainly wouldn't hurt. And I don't know what they mean by "standee-only," but hopefully they aren't removing seats completely. Since the CTA has high peaked demand, there shouldn't necessarily be a loss of seats outside of the rush hour period.

Nevertheless, it is an interesting idea, and I think it's great that Chicago is trying out creative solutions to maximize their capacity given all the constraints on the system. If only BART could get a little creative over here in the Bay Area...

I am always surprised at how narrow the 'L' trains are.

They're narrow, but not quite as narrow as the IRT lines (similar vintage).

Thanks!!!

How much capacity is really added with standing only cars? I mean, I'm guessing we're only talking about a few more people per each car, right? It just doesn't seem like seats take up that much space, plus considering that people are actually sitting in those seats, thus it's not exactly a dead space