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ChiMIchael Mar 29, 2021 5:17 PM

I was able to get an appointment as a goverment employee. It had a few annoyances, but I was able to book an one quite swiftly.

iheartthed Mar 29, 2021 8:19 PM

Starting tomorrow, New York will open up vaccine appointments to everyone 30 and above. Next week appointments will be opened to everyone 16+:

Quote:

NYers Age 30+ Eligible for Vaccine Tuesday, 16+ Get Access April 6; New Walk-in Option Opens

Gov. Andrew Cuomo says New Yorkers 30 years of age and older will be vaccine-eligible starting Tuesday -- and he plans to open up access for those 16 and older the following week, on April 6.

Monday's surprise announcement means the state will make adult eligibility universal nearly a month ahead of President Joe Biden's May 1 deadline and one day after Connecticut does the same. It also raises the question of where the 16+ group will get their shots. Only the Pfizer vaccine is approved for people that young, according to the latest CDC data, which was updated earlier this month.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/coro...apita/2969261/

Pedestrian Mar 29, 2021 8:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV (Post 9231695)
Yeah, I hear e.g. Texas is opening up to all adults this week, but according to all the online maps, they have a relatively low fraction of people already vaccinated. I think some politicians may be trying to score points by opening it up to more people before there really is enough capacity. Or maybe people in Texas don't want to take the vaccine, or the population is a lot younger on average, I don't know...

From NYT:
https://i.imgur.com/onmlbLx.png

That's an odd graphic. Quite different from the one Bloomberg is showing which is more consistent with my experience. That is, I didn't have too much trouble getting my first shot back in January and my second in February in Arizona (and yes, the appointments were ultimately all taken--I don't detect much hesitancy, at least among the older crowd).

https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/ser...049142/enhance
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/c...-distribution/

This graphic, current as of this morning, indicates Arizona with 23.4% "population coverage" and California at 22.8% (Texas, by the way, is 19.6%. Illinois 23.3%). A bit of explanation may be warranted: "“Population covered” divides the doses administered for each vaccine type by the number of doses required for full vaccination."

homebucket Mar 29, 2021 10:47 PM

Opening vaccine appointments to all doesn't really do much when it's been very difficult to schedule appointments, because the main overarching issue is inadequate vaccine supply, or perhaps disproportionate allocation.

In fact, opening appointments to all makes it more difficult for those at higher risk for complications from COVID to get their shots. They're probably less savvy at using apps or even figuring out how to use the refresh button, to find out when appointment slots (which are very hard to come by in the Bay Area) open up.

iheartthed Mar 29, 2021 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homebucket (Post 9232788)
Opening vaccine appointments to all doesn't really do much when it's been very difficult to schedule appointments, because the main overarching issue is inadequate vaccine supply, or perhaps disproportionate allocation.

In fact, opening appointments to all makes it more difficult for those at higher risk for complications from COVID to get their shots. They're probably less savvy at using apps or even figuring out how to use the refresh button, to find out when appointment slots (which are very hard to come by in the Bay Area) open up.

They can prioritize appointments for higher risk people, even if they do open up appointments to everyone. Hopefully they designed the scheduling systems to do this... I can't believe they wouldn't have thought this out already.

Pedestrian Mar 29, 2021 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartthed (Post 9232804)
They can prioritize appointments for higher risk people, even if they do open up appointments to everyone. Hopefully they designed the scheduling systems to do this... I can't believe they wouldn't have thought this out already.

While this might be technically possible, I don't think it's planned. The whole reason for "opening it up" is to make the available slots available to everyone. This would make sense if there were appointments restricted to certain groups going unused because there weren't enough such people left willing to be vaccinated. But I've seen no evidence that is the case anywhere I'm familiar with. Some comments above suggest it might be true in downstate Illinois or the Ozarks but in that case the sensible solution would be to distribute less vaccine to those areas and more to places people are lining up to take it, and there are still plenty of those in urban areas all over the country.

The good news is that I hope this opening up to younger ages will be accompanied by much more vaccine distributed to pharmacies. In today's WSJ they are reporting that the pharmacies getting vaccine will go from 17,000 to 40,000 nationally. To me, that makes more sense than mass vaccination centers with lines around the block. Make an appointment at your local pharmacy and get it there. This wasn't possible with the Pfizer vaccine that required special freezers but it should be with the Moderna and J&J vaccines.

homebucket Mar 30, 2021 12:16 AM

Hopefully the government is monitoring areas that have higher vaccine uptake than others (doses administered divided by doses received). It’d be interesting to see this data across various states and the urban vs rural difference. This data is available locally and from what I can tell some jurisdictions are actually achieving higher doses administered than received due to the ability to draw more doses from the vials than originally determined by the drug manufacturer.

Pedestrian Mar 30, 2021 1:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homebucket (Post 9232867)
the ability to draw more doses from the vials than originally determined by the drug manufacturer.

Being in the medical biz and having given many a shot (subcutaneous, IM and IV), I wouldn't want to be the person who got the dregs from the bottom of the vial. Just sayin'. Fortunately, with the 2-dose vaccines you can be pretty sure you weren't shorted on at least one dose.

homebucket Mar 30, 2021 2:05 AM

If the vials are reconstituted using the proper volume of diluent (0.9% NaCl), it is perfectly acceptable to draw in some cases up to 7 doses. 6 doses is actually the current standard.

Quote:

Pfizer vaccine vials hold some extra doses — experts say that's normal

The small glass vials used to transport Pfizer-BioNTech's Covid-19 vaccine hold more than the expected five doses — and that's OK.

The Food and Drug Administration said Wednesday night that it was aware of reports that vials were yielding six and sometimes seven doses, and that it was acceptable to use all full doses from each vial.

"At this time, given the public health emergency, FDA is advising that it is acceptable to use every full dose obtainable (the sixth, or possibly even a seventh) from each vial, pending resolution of the issue," the agency said in a tweet.

It is common for vaccine vials to be filled beyond their labeled allotment, experts said.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...say-s-n1251548

Pedestrian Mar 30, 2021 2:07 AM

California appears to have stepped on the gas in mid-March:

https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/ser...069916/enhance
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/c...-distribution/

Pedestrian Mar 30, 2021 2:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homebucket (Post 9232970)

Yeah I know. But when they are draining the vial and that last dose is almost enough . . . REAL close . . . the human temptation is to call it enough and shoot it into the arm. It's human nature. NBC News's reporters can say what they want--they haven't been there.

I have also read reports of people taking those last bits--the ones they can't possibly call a full dose--from multiple vials and combining them into one or more full doses. This is officially verboten. But again . . . human nature.

Basically, the manufacturers put more than 5 full doses in the vials for a reason: So all the doses given are unquestionably full doses. When you try to stretch it to more, there's room for lots of error. But there's a difference between stretching what is intended to be a 5-dose vial into more than 5 doses which I call risky and simply having the manufacturer fill the vials with more than 5 doses which I believe they may have begun doing in some cases because of a shortage of vials or other material, or simply because they have enough vaccine to do it and putting more in each vial speeds up the process (filling vials takes time--it saves time to put more in each vial).

homebucket Mar 30, 2021 2:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9232977)
I have also read reports of people taking those last bits--the ones they can't possibly call a full dose--from multiple vials and combining them into one or more full doses. This is officially verboten. But again . . . human nature.

I haven't heard of anyone doing this. I manage several mass vaccination sites and if anyone was caught doing this there would be some serious consequences. Anything less than exactly 0.3 mL must be discarded.

Quote:

... never combine or “pool” vaccine from multiple vials. Although no one wants to waste vaccine, it is crucial for infection control and patient safety to administer vaccine properly. Combining vaccine from multiple vials can result in cross-contamination, potentially causing serious bacterial infection in patients.
Remember, once it's been reconstituted, the concentration of the vaccine in the vial is the same, regardless of whether it is the first dose drawn, or the fifth, or the seventh. The part about the FDA only allowing a max of 6 doses per vial is actually outdated. They've gone back and forth on this a few times, but the current guidance is that if possible, a 7th dose may be drawn. As long as all the doses drawn from the vial contain 0.3 mL of vaccine, it's totally acceptable. All our drawing nurses are thoroughly vetted by licensed pharmacists and even then we have a double check system in place, after preparation, to make sure each syringe contains exactly 0.3 mL.

Quote:

After dilution, the multidose vial will contain at least five 0.3 mL doses. The amount of any excess vaccine left in the vial can vary based on provider technique and ancillary supplies. There may be excess vaccine in the vial after withdrawal of 5 doses equal to 2 additional doses. Per FDA authorization, a maximum of 6 doses per multidose vial can be administered. If the excess volume in the vial is less than 0.3 mL, it must be discarded.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-1...Tech-faqs.html

homebucket Mar 30, 2021 2:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9232971)

The rate must be going up elsewhere in CA, or in non-hospital systems like retail pharmacies, because we've been seeing the rates go down here in the Bay Area due to insufficient inventory.

SIGSEGV Mar 30, 2021 2:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9232588)
That's an odd graphic. Quite different from the one Bloomberg is showing which is more consistent with my experience. That is, I didn't have too much trouble getting my first shot back in January and my second in February in Arizona (and yes, the appointments were ultimately all taken--I don't detect much hesitancy, at least among the older crowd).

https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/ser...049142/enhance
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/c...-distribution/

This graphic, current as of this morning, indicates Arizona with 23.4% "population coverage" and California at 22.8% (Texas, by the way, is 19.6%. Illinois 23.3%). A bit of explanation may be warranted: "“Population covered” divides the doses administered for each vaccine type by the number of doses required for full vaccination."

Yeah the difference is that some states (Illinois, for example) were pretty slow early on but are doing pretty well now, so there is a big relative disparity between percentage with 1st shot and percentage with 2nd shot.

homebucket Mar 30, 2021 3:31 AM

This has also been my experience. We are fully equipped to vaccinate way more than we have been. We've got the staffing and the facilities, but we've had to limit the number of appointments and cancel numerous shifts due to insufficient inventory.

Quote:

Bay Area counties gear up for COVID-19 vaccine eligibility expansion

The day is approaching: come April 1st the entire state will open vaccine eligibility to those 50 and older.

"It is going to be a huge rush. It just is because people have been waiting for this," said UCSF Infectious Disease Specialist and Professor of Medicine, Dr. Monica Gandhi.

Dr. Gandhi says counties need to equip their vaccine teams now and gear up for the upcoming two weeks and expand hours. She is hopeful more vaccine will be available.

"Some of our supply problems which actually were because of the lipid what's called nano particle that had to go around the mRNA vaccine that was making things slow. And then we knew that in February they increased supply of that so it actually makes sense that we're going to have the supply," said Dr. Gandhi.

But counties like Santa Clara say they are concerned the bottle neck will continue to be not having enough vaccine.

"We've had scarcity of vaccine and that continues," said Dr. Marty Fenstershieb, Santa Clara County's COVID-19 testing and vaccine officer.

Santa Clara is projected to receive 58,000 doses of the COVID vaccine on Monday. A number that is not even close to the number of people who will qualify come Thursday.

"The number of people in our county between 50 and 64 where we are now is 400,000 people. That's a lot of people to add to our list," said Dr. Fenstershieb.
https://abc7news.com/bay-area-vaccin...d-19/10456632/

Pedestrian Mar 30, 2021 5:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homebucket (Post 9233009)
I haven't heard of anyone doing this. I manage several mass vaccination sites and if anyone was caught doing this there would be some serious consequences. Anything less than exactly 0.3 mL must be discarded.

It’s not something you’d hear about. It’s not something anyone would know about except the person filling the syringe and they’d convince themself they are doing the right thing. And it probably takes a person with as little faith in my fellow man (or woman) as me to think about the fact this is a human process, not one being done by flawless robots.



Quote:

Remember, once it's been reconstituted, the concentration of the vaccine in the vial is the same, regardless of whether it is the first dose drawn, or the fifth, or the seventh. The part about the FDA only allowing a max of 6 doses per vial is actually outdated. They've gone back and forth on this a few times, but the current guidance is that if possible, a 7th dose may be drawn. As long as all the doses drawn from the vial contain 0.3 mL of vaccine, it's totally acceptable. All our drawing nurses are thoroughly vetted by licensed pharmacists and even then we have a double check system in place, after preparation, to make sure each syringe contains exactly 0.3 mL.
I agree: As long as all the doses drawn have EXACTLY the specified amount it’s all good. But this is a human process, not a machine. EXACT is not the right word. But I hope when they are drawing the last dose from the vial, if there’s only .28 mL there, someone doesn’t decide “good enough”. The alternative, of course, is to dispose of that “almost enough” dose. And the fact is, .28 mL probably would work as well as .30. Probably. I just don’t want it in my arm.

You clearly have more faith in humanity than I do.

Pedestrian Mar 30, 2021 5:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homebucket (Post 9233041)
This has also been my experience. We are fully equipped to vaccinate way more than we have been. We've got the staffing and the facilities, but we've had to limit the number of appointments and cancel numerous shifts due to insufficient inventory.

Biden says by the end of April that’ll be solved. There’s not supposed to be politics here so I’ll just lay that out here without equivocation. That’s what they are saying—plenty of vaccine by May. That’s why they say everybody should be eligible then. We’ll see. If you know of appointments going unfilled in the Bay Area then or now, I’d love to hear about it.

10023 Mar 30, 2021 8:29 PM

My friend just had to postpone his wedding in Italy (where he’s from) to 2022. It was meant to be in July. I feel so bad for them.

The debts owed to the young by the old after this...

Pedestrian Mar 30, 2021 8:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 9233789)
My friend just had to postpone his wedding in Italy (where he’s from) to 2022. It was meant to be in July. I feel so bad for them.

The debts owed to the young by the old after this...

Sorry, but nobody owes you sh*t. Some people love and will miss their grandparents and parents. You clearly are not among them. Your friend and his intended can get married. They just can't make a grand show of it. Not the same as dying.

Pedestrian Mar 30, 2021 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9233117)
Biden says by the end of April that’ll be solved. There’s not supposed to be politics here so I’ll just lay that out here without equivocation. That’s what they are saying—plenty of vaccine by May. That’s why they say everybody should be eligible then. We’ll see. If you know of appointments going unfilled in the Bay Area then or now, I’d love to hear about it.

https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/ser...144266/enhance
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/c...-distribution/

Note that neither Astrazeneca nor Novavax are shown. If either of them gets their act together and gets approval, as they are claiming they will, we will indeed have plenty of vaccine. The over-18 population of the US is 209 million or just under 75% of the total population. Without the two mentioned we should still hit enough doses for the adult population by mid-May.

jtown,man Mar 31, 2021 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9233922)
https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/ser...144266/enhance
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/c...-distribution/

Note that neither Astrazeneca nor Novavax are shown. If either of them gets their act together and gets approval, as they are claiming they will, we will indeed have plenty of vaccine. The over-18 population of the US is 209 million or just under 75% of the total population. Without the two mentioned we should still hit enough doses for the adult population by mid-May.

Do these people realize we have a sizable population that isn't getting the vaccine?

In literally 3 months (shorter in some areas), our main issue is going to be getting more people vaccinated, shortages will be a thing of the past.

Pedestrian Mar 31, 2021 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtown,man (Post 9233987)
Do these people realize we have a sizable population that isn't getting the vaccine?

In literally 3 months (shorter in some areas), our main issue is going to be getting more people vaccinated, shortages will be a thing of the past.

I'm not sure who "these people" are. The chart shows doses available, not necessarily people willing to take them. But, yes, everyone concerned with the vaccination program is aware of "vaccination hesitancy". I believe, and I'm not alone, that as more and more people get the shot and there are no media reports of serious adverse reactions, "hesitancy" may largely give way to laziness and inertia. More people won't get it because they are too lazy to take the trouble than because they fear side effects or some nefariousness behind it all.

That's why I'd like to see more use of "vaccine passports" for assorted uses like entrance into activities like concerts, sports events and so on (New York is talking about this) and I wish a lot of businesses would either require or, at least, incentivize employees to get vaccinated once all ages are eligible.

the urban politician Mar 31, 2021 2:10 AM

“Vaccine passports” are good ideas in theory but subject to abuse and fraud.

Imagine some grumpy guy working Customs in a foreign country not approving your “vaccine passport” because...well...he’s a prick (they’re everywhere, you know this), and he decided that it doesn’t “look right”

Furthermore, imagine stolen or forged vaccine passports. I think it’s logistically a bad idea

Pedestrian Mar 31, 2021 2:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 9234062)
“Vaccine passports” are good ideas in theory but subject to abuse and fraud.

Imagine some grumpy guy working Customs in a foreign country not approving your “vaccine passport” because...well...he’s a prick (they’re everywhere, you know this), and he decided that it doesn’t “look right”

Furthermore, imagine stolen or forged vaccine passports. I think it’s logistically a bad idea

It's nothing new. When I first began foreign travel in order to get a visa for a number of countries proof of vaccination for certain diseases were required and documented on these booklets:

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/A4P2E3/int...ent-A4P2E3.jpg
https://www.google.com/search?q=inte...9jziszm9X-Vz1M

But I wasn't actually referring to travel documents. I was referring to domestic uses such as the kind of thing I mentioned: entering indoor sports and entertainment halls and arenas for example; even possibly bars or other smaller scale venues. They are doing it in Europe and doing it electronically with a smart phone app that can be scanned electronically.

SlidellWx Mar 31, 2021 3:41 AM

18.5% of metro New Orleans has been fully vaccinated as of Monday. https://ldh.la.gov/covidvaccine/

Pedestrian Mar 31, 2021 5:29 AM

Quote:

In 'ghost town' San Francisco, explorer discovers signs of life
Carl Nolte
Feb. 20, 2021
Updated: Feb. 20, 2021 10:05 a.m.

I have to agree with what Mark Twain supposedly said on hearing of his own obituary: “Reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated.” You could say the same about San Francisco.

So I headed from my humble home office down the hill to Mission Street. I stopped at Dianda’s Bakery near 25th Street to get a hot cross bun full of currants, raisins and tradition. They are a somewhat overlooked seasonal treat, baked only during Lent.

I dodged around the COVID vaccine station at 24th Street to get on a BART train headed downtown. It was only the second time in a year I’d ridden BART. There were only a handful of other passengers. We eyed each other warily, masked riders in the subway. I got off at Montgomery. The station was gleaming. No wonder, because it was empty. Up the long escalator to Market and Montgomery streets. I’m a city boy, so tall buildings still impress me. I noticed that the Starbucks at 44 Montgomery had a big sign: OPEN. Though it was nearly lunchtime, the place was empty except for a single barista. Downtown is a ghost town. Everybody knows that.

I headed up to Sam’s Grill on Bush Street, one of the oldest restaurants in the West. I gave the petrale sole a vote of confidence, as the late columnist Stanton Delaplane used to say, long ago, when a business lunch was a San Francisco ritual.

Sam’s is on Belden Place, where outdoor restaurants managed to get through some of the more draconian health regulations. The restaurants weren’t crowded, but they weren’t empty. Peter Quartaroli, the managing partner, thinks established places like Sam’s will survive the disaster that the pandemic has brought to the restaurant industry. And he’s optimistic about the city’s future, despite the reports of an urban exodus. “I think it will shake out,” he said. “The people who will be here will be the ones who want to live here,” he said.

I headed up to Old St. Mary’s Church at Grant Avenue and California Street. The church, built in 1854 on a foundation of granite imported from China, was one of the tallest buildings in California. The parish church is reportedly in financial trouble because of the pandemic — a symbol, it is said, of the virus on the very core of the city. It was locked up tight when I went by, but there are services every day, a symbol of the enduring nature of faith in the city.

These are the last days of the new year celebration, and this weekend would have seen the great Chinese New Year Parade winding sinuously from Downtown through Chinatown. Instead the parade became virtual.

Chinatown has suffered, too. Business is off, and times are tough. But a walk down Stockton Street shows the vitality of the community. It is quieter this season and Chinatown is not what it was, but it’s still there. Open-air markets selling fresh fruit and vegetables look busy, and there are all kinds of street life. This is the Year of the Ox, and ox pictures in red and gold are everywhere.

I ducked down Ross Alley, the oldest of San Francisco’s hundreds of alleyways, past the Golden Gate Fortune Cookies Co., past the Sweetheart Cafe. Arnold Genthe took pictures in Ross Alley in the 19th century when it was called the Street of Gamblers, and a scene from an Indiana Jones movie was filmed in Ross Alley. I don’t think there is any other city in the West that has a place like this.

I headed up Grant and cut into Kerouac Alley, which leads from Chinatown to North Beach, two worlds in a single little street, not a block long. It is an alley lined with poetry and murals, some of them new.

Then up Columbus Avenue, past the City Lights Bookstore, past the Molinari Delicatessen, to Green Street. The block between Columbus and Grant has been transformed by the virus, and in a surprising way. When the city’s restaurants were shut down more than a year ago and outside dining was permitted, Green Street exploded with nearly a dozen sidewalk restaurants, most of them elaborate.

There was nothing quite like it in San Francisco only a year ago. Now Valencia Street, Divisadero Street and Hayes Valley are full of restaurants built on parklets. But Green Street is the original and champion.

I sat there for a while in the warm afternoon sun of the last days of winter, in front of Gino & Carlo, a bar and sometime restaurant, sipping a glass of wine, thinking of techies who bailed out to Austin only to be caught in a Texas snowstorm.

As the afternoon wore on, it became a sort of street party; people kept dropping by. It seemed as if everybody knew everybody else.

“You know it reminds me of something I saw in Italy,” said Marco Rossi, whose family has owned Gino & Carlo for years. “About 4 in the afternoon, people stop what they were doing and they come by restaurants, and they have some food and they drink and talk. I think they call that ‘passegato,’ or something like that.” He could have meant “guardare il passaggio,” which means “to promenade.” Or maybe not. We took a sip of wine.

How’s business, I asked. “Good,” he said. “Gino & Carlo’s customers are loyal. And thirsty. God bless them.”

So maybe Mark Twain was right. The obituary is premature.
https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/...photo-20630554

glowrock Mar 31, 2021 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 9233789)
My friend just had to postpone his wedding in Italy (where he’s from) to 2022. It was meant to be in July. I feel so bad for them.

The debts owed to the young by the old after this...

Pobrecito! My heart aches for them. God forbid someone must put off something for a time because of a worldwide pandemic. :rolleyes:

Nothing says your friend can't be officially married tomorrow and then have the massive, elaborate, probably very expensive celebration in 2022.

Aaron (Glowrock)

10023 Mar 31, 2021 1:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glowrock (Post 9234226)
Pobrecito! My heart aches for them. God forbid someone must put off something for a time because of a worldwide pandemic. :rolleyes:

Nothing says your friend can't be officially married tomorrow and then have the massive, elaborate, probably very expensive celebration in 2022.

Aaron (Glowrock)

“Worldwide pandemic” that only seems to afflict the very old in certain places.

I don’t think you guys understand the level of personal irresponsibility amongst the gray haired crowd in the U.K. throughout this, which I imagine was much the same in Europe. In the US it seems that older people have generally avoid riskier situations out of caution, which is a good thing. In Britain they were the first people back to the pub, and the most likely to have illegal dinner parties and things during lockdown. There were older partners at my firm who got Covid during the first “stay at home” order last spring because they had the whole family around for Sunday lunch.

Some sense of self-preservation on their part, coupled with looser rules for younger people could have built more immunity (it doesn’t really matter whether some magic threshold for “herd immunity” was achieved), could have avoided these repeated lockdowns and another lost summer.

jtown,man Mar 31, 2021 1:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9234003)
I'm not sure who "these people" are. The chart shows doses available, not necessarily people willing to take them. But, yes, everyone concerned with the vaccination program is aware of "vaccination hesitancy". I believe, and I'm not alone, that as more and more people get the shot and there are no media reports of serious adverse reactions, "hesitancy" may largely give way to laziness and inertia. More people won't get it because they are too lazy to take the trouble than because they fear side effects or some nefariousness behind it all.

That's why I'd like to see more use of "vaccine passports" for assorted uses like entrance into activities like concerts, sports events and so on (New York is talking about this) and I wish a lot of businesses would either require or, at least, incentivize employees to get vaccinated once all ages are eligible.


These people= government officials who think they will get 100% of people vaccinated.

SIGSEGV Mar 31, 2021 3:16 PM

Biden should send $500 checks to everyone who gets the vaccine. That should help with vaccination rates and probably more than pays for itself.

JManc Mar 31, 2021 5:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 9234277)
“Worldwide pandemic” that only seems to afflict the very old in certain places.

I don’t think you guys understand the level of personal irresponsibility amongst the gray haired crowd in the U.K. throughout this, which I imagine was much the same in Europe. In the US it seems that older people have generally avoid riskier situations out of caution, which is a good thing. In Britain they were the first people back to the pub, and the most likely to have illegal dinner parties and things during lockdown. There were older partners at my firm who got Covid during the first “stay at home” order last spring because they had the whole family around for Sunday lunch.

Some sense of self-preservation on their part, coupled with looser rules for younger people could have built more immunity (it doesn’t really matter whether some magic threshold for “herd immunity” was achieved), could have avoided these repeated lockdowns and another lost summer.

Every 'grey hair' I know has been taking this VERY seriously. Staying home, avoiding crowds but it's the Avocado toast eating set that's fucking things up for the rest of us by prolonging this pandemic by crowding in Miami Beach. I get that people are over Covid (I certainly am) but it hasn't gone away just because we're sick of it. At least until we're vaccinated.

jtown,man Mar 31, 2021 6:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV (Post 9234374)
Biden should send $500 checks to everyone who gets the vaccine. That should help with vaccination rates and probably more than pays for itself.

That's actually an interesting idea that would certainly boost numbers.


My sisters elementary school is meeting next week to discuss when to end their mask mandate for teachers and kids. Meanwhile here in Chicago I am still not allowed to go in with my dog for a vet appointment yet can get a full body massage and eat inside anywhere lol

JManc Mar 31, 2021 7:33 PM

The government should spend $500 per person to get a vaccine they already spent billions helping to develop and untold millions more to educate the public about. I am thinking we let Darwin do his thing and let the anti-vaxxers tempt fate without having to be bribed.

jtown,man Mar 31, 2021 8:47 PM

^^^Also a good point lol

Pedestrian Mar 31, 2021 8:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JManc (Post 9234727)
The government should spend $500 per person to get a vaccine they already spent billions helping to develop and untold millions more to educate the public about. I am thinking we let Darwin do his thing and let the anti-vaxxers tempt fate without having to be bribed.

The solution would be to put them all in a closed space--maybe some sports arena like after a hurricane--and keep them maskless for a few days.

Unfortunately, it's in no one's interest to let nature take its course and just provide a reservoir for simmering infection. It would be necessary to bring the pot to a boil and get them all infected--then ultimately dead or immune--at the same time in order to get the epidemic over.

I'd spend $500 to put everybody who refuses the vaccine in the Superdome and lock them down for a week.

Pedestrian Mar 31, 2021 8:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JManc (Post 9234528)
Every 'grey hair' I know has been taking this VERY seriously. Staying home, avoiding crowds but it's the Avocado toast eating set that's fucking things up for the rest of us by prolonging this pandemic by crowding in Miami Beach. I get that people are over Covid (I certainly am) but it hasn't gone away just because we're sick of it. At least until we're vaccinated.

Every time a certain London-dwelling forumer pipes up with what the most susceptible owe him for his suffering, I wonder if he's had it yet and whether he'd mind getting it and blogging the experience for us because, after all, he's totally confident it wouldn't bother him.

Pedestrian Mar 31, 2021 9:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtown,man (Post 9234650)
That's actually an interesting idea that would certainly boost numbers.


My sisters elementary school is meeting next week to discuss when to end their mask mandate for teachers and kids. Meanwhile here in Chicago I am still not allowed to go in with my dog for a vet appointment yet can get a full body massage and eat inside anywhere lol

I just don't get the emotion over wearing a mask. COVID aside, I celebrate not having had a cold in over a year. I'm so used to wearing my mask I think I may wear one in crowds or around bunches of people I don't know like on transit for the rest of my life. I really think I'd get a lot less respiratory disease and generally be healthier.

Of course I've always been used to wearing surgical masks at work so simply wearing one is nothing new for me but it would have seemed so strange to wear one in public before. Now I suspect people will not be surprised and a fair number may be doing likewise.

10023 Mar 31, 2021 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JManc (Post 9234528)
Every 'grey hair' I know has been taking this VERY seriously. Staying home, avoiding crowds but it's the Avocado toast eating set that's fucking things up for the rest of us by prolonging this pandemic by crowding in Miami Beach. I get that people are over Covid (I certainly am) but it hasn't gone away just because we're sick of it. At least until we're vaccinated.

That’s in the US, not in the U.K., which is exactly my point.

And it’s not the “avocado toast crowd” in South Beach. It’s the ghetto crowd that’s over there right now. More importantly, Covid wasn’t “going away” no matter how strict restrictions could plausibly be in the West.

Pedestrian Mar 31, 2021 11:33 PM

Quote:

Snowbirds Fly South for the Vaccine
By Craig Offman
March 30, 2021 6:31 pm ET

Toronto

We Canadians are a compliant flock. We have faith in our government. We share a strong egalitarian streak. If there is a line, we’ll stand in it peacefully. But the Liberal government’s bungled rollout of Covid-19 vaccinations is ruffling feathers here, and many people in my parents’ cohort have ditched the wait and flown south in search of their own vaccinations. This may be hard for Americans to understand, but in Canada this qualifies as subversive.

You can hardly blame these seniors. If the government can’t protect them, who will? These people have been cooped up for more than a year, unable to hug their grandchildren or stroll without fearing the quiet menace of aerosol particles. Many complain that the vaccine registration systems, controlled by provinces, are impenetrable or Soviet: You have to know someone or hope for a lucky glitch that lets you slide into the queue. The statistics also offer little hope. So far, 1.8% of Canadians have been fully vaccinated, a rate that puts us slightly behind Brazil.

Further, when the first round of jabs began around February, disheartening news followed. In early March, Canada became the only country in the world to delay the second dose by four months. We love our quirks, but uniquely inept life-and-death policy decisions strain one’s patience. When addressing how that extension would affect the province of British Columbia, Canada’s chief science adviser, Mona Nemer, framed it as a “population-level experiment.” How comforting.

Facing questions about what guidelines Canadians with one shot should follow, Ottawa mangled the message even more: “I would expect the advice to evolve as we go along,” said Chief Public Health Officer Theresa Tam. “But it’s a bit early.”

The other day, my mother and I were on the phone counting 40 people we know who had migrated south over the past two months in search of shots. Some of them already owned condos down there, and while they initially didn’t go, for fear of mingling in a state where rules around masks seemed relatively lax, staying put in Canada came to seem more dangerous. Shots in Florida formally require proof of residence or regular rental. If that can be established, being vaccinated is as easy as rolling up and ordering a double-double coffee at Tim Hortons.

David Peltz, a Toronto real-estate investor, was already at his second home in South Florida earlier this winter when he heard how easy it was to get the shots and got them. People back home greeted his update with a combination of happiness for him and anger at the government for a botched job. “It was just awkward,” he says. “They just want the same opportunity.”

There is, alas, a price to pay on the way home. Flying back to Canada means three nights in a quarantine hotel, even for people who are vaccinated. That rule is now being challenged in an Ontario court as “overbroad, arbitrary and grossly disproportionate.”

Speaking of arbitrary, the rule doesn’t apply to Canadians returning by car. So rather than flying into Toronto Pearson Airport and paying thousands to stay at one of the designated hotels, Torontonians can land in Buffalo, hire a driver for a few hundred dollars, and cross the border. Why not? If your feet are on the ground, the border is merely a state of mind.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/snowbir...ion_major_pos6

10023 Apr 1, 2021 12:01 AM

^ Same reason people fly into Newark rather than LGA, to avoid New York’s quarantine.

iheartthed Apr 1, 2021 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 9235032)
^ Same reason people fly into Newark rather than LGA, to avoid New York’s quarantine.

NY's rules are same for everyone, no matter what mode of transportation they arrive on. And NY's quarantine rules don't apply to travelers passing through. And Buffalo is in NY, so if the quarantine rules weren't waived for people passing through, the Buffalo workaround wouldn't be an option until recently...

JManc Apr 1, 2021 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 9234946)
That’s in the US, not in the U.K., which is exactly my point.

And it’s not the “avocado toast crowd” in South Beach. It’s the ghetto crowd that’s over there right now. More importantly, Covid wasn’t “going away” no matter how strict restrictions could plausibly be in the West.

The ghetto crowd aren't in their 60's. They're young people who may not be named 'Kyle' or 'Harley' but still don't care if they catch Covid and spread it around. I'm all for opening back up and removing mask mandates once the majority of the population gets their second shot. Only 15% of the US is fully vaccinated. I think you think you're the only one put out by all this when virtually everyone I know is tired of the bullshit masks and social distancing.

Pedestrian Apr 1, 2021 2:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartthed (Post 9235039)
NY's rules are same for everyone, no matter what mode of transportation they arrive on. And NY's quarantine rules don't apply to travelers passing through. And Buffalo is in NY, so if the quarantine rules weren't waived for people passing through, the Buffalo workaround wouldn't be an option until recently...

The point, I think, is that New York's rules aren't enforced and nowhere in the US except perhaps Hawaii are quarantine rules enforced that I know of. I'm pretty sure the NYPD doesn't track down everybody (or anybody) landing at a New York airport and make sure they stay in a hotel room for some number of days. I absolutely know the SFPD doesn't--I've returned to CA from AZ without even checking the rules because I know they wouldn't be enforced. I'm not sure exactly what the SFPD does these days besides collecting their paychecks.

But evidently if you fly into Canada directly, they not only check on you but they make you go to a designated hotel and stay there. Other countries like Australia apparently do this too. But I'm not aware of anywhere in the continental US that they do it so no matter what the rules are you can fly into somewhere in the US, rent a car and drive into Canada and go your merry way.

sopas ej Apr 1, 2021 2:26 AM

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...c06eba77_c.jpg

SlidellWx Apr 1, 2021 6:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopas ej (Post 9235133)

The new conversation starter across the world!

jbermingham123 Apr 1, 2021 6:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopas ej (Post 9235133)

these guys look like they'd be more into Johnson and Johnson.. if ya know what i mean

jtown,man Apr 1, 2021 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9234833)
I just don't get the emotion over wearing a mask. COVID aside, I celebrate not having had a cold in over a year. I'm so used to wearing my mask I think I may wear one in crowds or around bunches of people I don't know like on transit for the rest of my life. I really think I'd get a lot less respiratory disease and generally be healthier.

Of course I've always been used to wearing surgical masks at work so simply wearing one is nothing new for me but it would have seemed so strange to wear one in public before. Now I suspect people will not be surprised and a fair number may be doing likewise.

Well, first people don't like being forced to do things. Second, its incredibly uncomfortable during the summer when your breath is heating up your face. Third, it isn't normal. "But the Japanese wear masks!" Yes, when they are sick and not every single day. Fourth, it literally makes us less humane. I notice people not wearing masks smile more, or at least that's what I thought. In reality, I just don't know people's expressions anymore. Sure, you can take in subtle cues like wrinkles forming in people's foreheads that can indicate a smile or eyes showing you something. But it's not the same. Fifth, I am about the be fully vaccinated in one week. I. Don't. Need. A. Mask. There is no study indicating that I would need one. That's like me wearing a jacket in the middle of the summer, there's no reason for it. If *you* think me wearing a jacket makes *you* feel better, too bad. I don't care.


So yeah, continue to wear your mask. Please do if you like it. But a MANDATE for healthy people and people already vaccinated is not only pointless, its just politics.

jtown,man Apr 1, 2021 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartthed (Post 9235039)
NY's rules are same for everyone, no matter what mode of transportation they arrive on. And NY's quarantine rules don't apply to travelers passing through. And Buffalo is in NY, so if the quarantine rules weren't waived for people passing through, the Buffalo workaround wouldn't be an option until recently...

There is absolutely zero way for someone to enforce covid rules for people driving into the city. Zero.

I always felt the quarantine rules were really just a way for cities and states to just discourage people from traveling there, not to actually enforce them (which would be near impossible on a large scale).

iheartthed Apr 1, 2021 3:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9235132)
The point, I think, is that New York's rules aren't enforced and nowhere in the US except perhaps Hawaii are quarantine rules enforced that I know of. I'm pretty sure the NYPD doesn't track down everybody (or anybody) landing at a New York airport and make sure they stay in a hotel room for some number of days. I absolutely know the SFPD doesn't--I've returned to CA from AZ without even checking the rules because I know they wouldn't be enforced. I'm not sure exactly what the SFPD does these days besides collecting their paychecks.

So I was clarifying that landing in Newark did not allow someone to skirt the rules. Also, they did perform random stops at the crossing points into New York to inform travelers of the requirement. But it was/is a "self-quarantine" requirement, meaning that it's up to you to arrange your own quarantine. It's on the honor system, so it's up to you on whether you follow it or not, but if you get caught not adhering to it then you have a legal liability. To this day, I think only one person has ever been prosecuted, but theoretically they could prosecute anyone for which there is sufficient evidence that they broke the rule.

iheartthed Apr 1, 2021 3:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtown,man (Post 9235321)
There is absolutely zero way for someone to enforce covid rules for people driving into the city. Zero.

I always felt the quarantine rules were really just a way for cities and states to just discourage people from traveling there, not to actually enforce them (which would be near impossible on a large scale).

There absolutely is a way to enforce it. See my post above. Now whether it was useful is another story.


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