Originally Posted by homebucket (Post 8994308)

She should receive a full cardiac work up as well to evaluate for any structural heart disease.

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 8994527)

Here are the test results I'd love to see on this lady:

[img]https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/ser...89329/media/16

People seem to always focus on the end-organ damage in this disease but not on the underlying pathology that may be damaging those organs. It seems to have a lot to do with the nervous system and the vascular system and one particular characteristic is widespread blood clotting abnormalities which can result in damage to almost any organ: If you have clots (formed locally or lodging there after forming elsewhere) in your lungs, you will feel short of breath, in your heart you may appear to have heart damage, same with kidney or liver or brain. As anybody whose legs have "gone to sleep" (as we used to say) knows, cutting off the circulation to some parts of the body can be painful also. To me, this pathology could explain a lot of the seemingly widespread and unconnected symptoms of this disease.

"DIC" by the way stands for Disseminated Intravascular Coagulation

Originally Posted by Handro (Post 8994596)

Interesting. Doctors have also reported strokes in patients who otherwise had mild symptoms.

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 8994514)

There is nothing but speculation to support the notion that the disease was in New York before January. It probably was circulating in China in November and there is some travel between NY and Wuhan so it might be possible to find an Asian strain case in New York derived froma traveler from that early but it evidently was not widely transmitted in the community there because that strain did not become the strain undergoing widespread community transmission in NY or anywhere in the east like it did on the west coast.

Originally Posted by homebucket (Post 8994715)

There may have been some viral spread prior to this but to suggest there was widespread viral transmission in the US in November 2019 is pure speculation.

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 8994733)

No. Covid was here. We can debate the extent of Covid, but we know it was here. It's been detected in human and water samples from 2019.

Flu deaths spiked in the New Year, in the exact same areas that saw Covid spikes in March. It's reasonable to assume that many or most of these "extra" deaths were Covid-related.

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV (Post 8995521)

So Chicago is doing this thing where it's asking people who have been in "high-infection" states to self-quarantine for two weeks, although it's not enforced in any way as far as I can tell (presumably it can be enforced via contact tracing, if someone is found to have infected people after being in a high-infection state). On Friday, Wisconsin will join the list. There are exemptions for commuters / medical treatment / etc. but it will be interesting to see how this turns out. I can certainly imagine people going to bars in Wisconsin being a problem.

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV (Post 8995521)

So Chicago is doing this thing where it's asking people who have been in "high-infection" states to self-quarantine for two weeks, although it's not enforced in any way as far as I can tell (presumably it can be enforced via contact tracing, if someone is found to have infected people after being in a high-infection state). On Friday, Wisconsin will join the list. There are exemptions for commuters / medical treatment / etc. but it will be interesting to see how this turns out. I can certainly imagine people going to bars in Wisconsin being a problem.

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 8994733)

No. Covid was here. We can debate the extent of Covid, but we know it was here. It's been detected in human and water samples from 2019.

Flu deaths spiked in the New Year, in the exact same areas that saw Covid spikes in March. It's reasonable to assume that many or most of these "extra" deaths were Covid-related.

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 8995923)

The "New Year" was flu season. What we KNOW is that eastern cases for the most part came from Europe, not directly from China whereas western cases did come directly. The DNA tells us that. The original point was that the west coast recognized the disease earliest and reacted earliest thereby flattening its curve in a way that didn't happen in New York. We certainly know the New York response came later than the response in the Bay Area and Washington. If they actually had had the disease spreading in the community as long, that makes their failure to recognize it and respond even more culpable.

I recall reading the reports you referred to about environmental viral DNA. That was a single report, not confirmed as far as I know and not peer reviewed but let's see what you can find.

Originally Posted by iheartthed (Post 8996524)

It is extremely unlikely that the virus went to the West Coast from China and not the East Coast. Many of the original hotspots in the East have direct flights to China.

Anecdotally, a good friend of mine traveled to China for work about once a quarter. He was in Wuhan around early December, which is about the time the local officials there started to notice the outbreak.

Originally Posted by edale (Post 8996587)

Wait, you know that there are more direct flights to China from the West Coast than the East Coast, right? Why would it be unlikely that it came to Washington and California from China, but rather from New York? Especially when the first confirmed cases in the US were on the West Coast?

Originally Posted by iheartthed (Post 8996614)

Because "more" does not mean "only."

Originally Posted by edale (Post 8996750)

What do you mean? Why do you assume Covid appeared in the West Coast from NYC rather than China directly when there are a lot of flights from China to the West Coast?