Yes, No and Sorta: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...postcount=2893

I've spent months in downtown Chicago. I stayed at the Hampton Inn on State and Monroe for over a month which is in the center of the loop. Tourists don't hang out at Mellinnium Park at night unless there is an event, and the streets are dead enough to skateboard on. You just named a lot of places that aren't even in the loop. As far as LA LIVE being downtown, of course a developer would say downtown. They wouldn't say "located close to downtown in a shitty area" would they?

anyway, now we are arguing semantics which is just retarded. The point is, LA is as vibrant, cultural, and interesting a city as any in North America and if you don't realize that, then you owe it a visit. Chicago is my second home, lol... don't even try to argue the loop with me.

Who cares if L.A. LIVE isn't in the center of downtown it is still in downtown be it on the fringe; I've posted a map which shows all the areas I named being within the Loop... The Loop is a small area of Chicago; that city is much more exciting than L.A. When were you last "home" (Chicago) because there are plenty of people in the Park at night (not at midnight but still). The sculptures, Buckingham Fountain are illuminated beautifully at night and from Thanksgiving until March the ice rink is packed after dark...

L.A. has some interesting stuff, but my argument leans more towards its unsustainable aspects and why Phoenix should avoid its development pitfalls.

??? Not sure what point you're trying to make...

I was there less than two months ago, and I still think Los Angeles is a more interesting and more culturally diverse city, with much more to do. It's every bit as dense as Chicagoland as well.

I'm done arguing with you, several people have already countered your opinions and It's a dumb thing to argue about in the first place.

No one has really countered but argued around the main issue. But getting back to development in Phoenix:

TakeFive, you asked about interest in building more office space in downtown and the current market situation. I don't think that midtown has to have high occupancy rates in order for downtown to attract development. There is interest in building downtown (this has been mentioned before) and by a Chicago developer; what a coincidence. Some interesting facts about Phoenix office vacancy rates and future real estate trends were stated in the article about the development near 2nd and Monroe:

"David Roderique, CEO of the Downtown Phoenix Partnership, acknowledged the real estate market is down, but he said the downtown area would be first to get off the mat when a recovery occurs.

Roderique said the downtown office vacancy rate is 13 percent, compared with 22 percent for the entire Valley."
http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/p...wn.html?page=2

To be fair, I did argue for that possibility back in November, but my last comment was:
That was also before I became aware of more than a little vacancy up the street.

You're right though that the vacancy rate is reasonable in downtown, the question is what kind of demand is out there. Remember, One Central Park East enticed Freeport-McMoran into leasing space for their HQ,
then converted the rest of the building to a Westin Hotel (because of lack of demand for office space).

Sorry 'bout the Suns. Perhaps the good news is that the upcoming road trip should send them up near the top... if you're looking at the Draft List. At least the Heat lost in a fun game to my Nuggets. :tup:

Its nice to see the wheels of a tower project starting to move now, however slowly, so that when the market recovers things can happen right away. It seems like Central Phx always misses the front half of a boom due to overly cautious developers.

I expected the Suns to have a horrible year again; no playoffs but they still play some exciting games.

As for the Westin, it wasn't a lack of demand that drove them into the building, but need for hotel rooms and the developer seeking their brand. When Freeport-McMoRan moved into One CPE the Phoenix School of Law moved into their old headquarters.

There is potential demand for office space... this is one reason why companies have overlooked a possible move to downtown like Bar-S (eventually moving to Camelback). If there was a nice, new tower in downtown I bet they would have leased space there (CityScape was/is nearly full and One CPE is fully leased). Furthermore, most of the office vacancies in downtown aren't in the towers but in older, low-slung buildings that probably will never be used again as offices; e.g. that building across from the 3 tall townhouses where Moira is located. The Midtown office vacancy rate is high; it is 24% but those buildings will be used again in the future.

That doesn't make any sense. Those "low slung" buildings have such a small number of offices available, how could they contribute such a high percentage?

13% is high? The "downtown market" also stretches into south Phoenix for market analysis...fyi.

No, I'm saying those tiny buildings could never have such a high effect on the total number.

They do because the market analysis for downtown includes offices just past the Salt River. I haven't come across a report that focuses on vacancy rates for the area we consider downtown nor one limited to an area where only the towers stand.

The occupancy rates in the towers makes up for the lower vacancy rates in the rest of the downtown market; an important indicator of current trends and potential for expanding highrise office space in DT.

The Downtown Office market if distinct is not very big (that much space). But downtown 'A' space also competes with the Biltmore area as well as Tempe to an extent. Indeed Biltmore has taken tenants from mid-town.

Given the market, tenants that have been able to, have played musical chairs for either/and/or better space, cheaper space and space they can grow into. This will continue for a bit.
It is very likely that CityScape settled for rates/incentives packages much less than what they had originally anticipated.

I do believe the allure for more downtown 'A' space will develop soon enough but exactly how soon is a different question. A nice new downtown tower will throw a lot of space into that marketplace.
Short of an identifiable tenant or two there will likely be some delay.

But in hindsight it will happen fast.

Christown Mall Changes Looming

Vestar Development Co. has taken over management of the landmark Christown Spectrum Mall in central Phoenix with plans to bring new vitality and increased traffic to the 51-year-old shopping center.

It's the third major property-management deal the company has landed in the past few months. Vestar recently took over management of the troubled Westgate City Center project in Glendale

The 85-acre Christown property is one of metro Phoenix's most successful infill-retail-redevelopment projects. But McGinley believes Vestar's local focus and expertise can take the center to a new level.

"We want to bring some of the programs and marketing expertise we gained at Tempe Marketplace and Desert Ridge (Marketplace) to create a more exciting shopping environment at Christown," he said.

Although Christown anchors such as Target, Costco, J.C. Penney and Walmart are thriving, some of the interior spaces are struggling. McGinley hopes to find ways to direct the traffic from the anchors to the interior of the mall to attract new tenants there.

Read more here.

As from a post on Roosevelt Row's facebook page...

"Word on the street is that a book shop might be coming to fifth street South of Roosevelt"

It is my proud duty to annouce this!!!!!! I've been waiting a long freakin time for downtown to have it!!!!!1!
http://downtowndevil.com/2012/01/19/...lt-publishing/:banana::banana:

Well That's Pretty Cool
 

http://www.metrolic.com/wp-content/u...ading_Book.gif
http://www.metrolic.com/wp-content/u...ing-a-book.gif

Timing Is Everything....
 

New York firm buys Metrocenter Mall for $12.2M
Phoenix Business Journal by Jan Buchholz, Reporter
Date: Thursday, January 19, 2012, 6:23pm MST - Last Modified: Friday, January 20, 2012, 9:28am MST
http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n...nter-mall.html Not sure we'll see anything dramatic soon, but it has to be a big positive to get this out of Bankruptcy/Receivership back into private hands. Apparently as the markets wobbled, so did this deal, but they got her done.

I would think the buyers timing is excellent, that there's good opportunity for upside so here's hoping the owners help and do well. :tup:

I can't imagine if we'll ever see anything dramatic, as it's just not a location in which retailers really want to sign leases.