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MayorOfChicago Jan 18, 2012 5:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 5536624)
I don't know about 6 minutes, but it's probably the single biggest thing you could do to speed up Red and Purple trains, other than removing slow zones. On a 40-minute trip, cutting 2 or 3 minutes is a pretty big improvement.

Edit: Okay, the scheduled Red Line time from Wilson to Addison is 5 minutes. This includes a station stop at Sheridan. The thing is, trains rounding these curves must slow dramatically when there is another train on an adjacent track. Given the frequency and the overlap of Red and Purple trains, this happens pretty often. I know this personally, having ridden the Red Line daily for several months. Let's say it adds two minutes of delay over the scheduled time. A properly-designed high speed curve with a new Sheridan station would eliminate the delay and maybe shave a minute or two off of the scheduled times through the corridor for a total savings of three-four minutes.

My preferred solution, of course, would be to sink the North Main Line into a Sheffield subway through Wrigleyville, which would grade-separate Clark Junction, provide a new high-capacity subway station at Wrigley/Addison, and eliminate the Sheridan curve. North of Irving Park, the tunnel would curve westward to the current alignment and return to the elevated. The problem is accommodating all four tracks. I don't know if it's possible to dig a four-track tunnel with anything other than cut-and-cover.
6 minutes!? That's about as long as a train takes to go from Sheridan halfway down to Fullerton. From the time I see the train coming into view as it enters the curve into the station going southbound until the time we clear the curve leaving the station is normally a minute.

How would you same more than 10-12 seconds by straigthening out Sheridan? The trains come around the curve and directly into the station. Then leave the station directly into another curve. They're certainly not going 55mph when they do this. I take Sheridan every single day, and I don't see how the trains would be sped up that much between those two curves on either end of the station if they were smoothed out a bit more. Not to warrent spending millions and tearing down fairly decent buildings.

If any curve slows you down, it's the double curve on the Brown/Purple at Halsted and North. Even then, many motormen take those curves at very high speeds. Sometimes the people in the cars are all thrown around as the train charges through both curves.

ardecila Jan 18, 2012 9:59 PM
I never said 6 minutes. I thought it was excessive too. I don't think 2 minutes of savings is unrealistic though. Plus, removing the tight curves reduces noise in the neighborhood and reduces wear on the railcars. For the Red Line, which has no other such tight curves anywhere, this is important.

There are various alignment options CTA could consider to smooth the curve, and if designed properly they could minimize demolitions. My preferred alternative would be to construct the station at a 15-degree angle (instead of pure east-west or 45 degrees). This would use up some of the backyards/detached garages of the homes on Irving Park (only one demolition, on the west end) and some of the ugly 1-story buildings around Sheridan/Dakin. Only two residential properties would be seized - the Irving Park home at 1045 W. and the 3-story building at 3934 N. Sheridan.

Presumably the new viaduct would be concrete and therefore substantially quieter than the existing shrieking steel structure. CTA could probably also design the new station such that the PA announcements and door-closing bells would not be heard off of the platform. The rebuilt stations at Belmont and Fullerton are much better neighbors than, say, Armitage due to the quieter structure. If you stand beneath the tracks at Fletcher, it's almost peaceful.

ardecila Jan 18, 2012 10:24 PM
CTA Rendering Reveals
 
Clark/Division - New LaSalle Mezzanine
Looks like Rahm hates the Disney look too. :cheers: This wavy thing is gonna become a common motif. We already have it at Millennium Station.

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/6...kdivision2.jpg

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/4...kdivision1.jpg


Washington/Wabash
More waves. The new station will preserve views of the Wabash architecture with no exterior walls. Waiting passengers will freeze.

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/1160/wawa3.jpg

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/6050/wawa2.jpg

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/5188/wawa1.jpg


Cermak
No renderings of this one. Looks like disabled people will need to use the ramp instead of an elevator. This will save a boatload of money for the city.

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/8720/cermak1.jpg

Mr Downtown Jan 19, 2012 12:32 AM
Then how can that new Cermak station possibly cost $50 million?

It's some structural steel, some metal stairs, and a concrete platform on stringers. How can it cost three times as much as an entire friggin' Walmart?

ardecila Jan 19, 2012 2:35 AM
Beats me. There are plenty of vacant lots nearby that can be used for staging. Maybe they need to do intensive repairs to the steel viaduct?

I don't really know how they can maintain ADA compliance with a platform that's no wider than the one further south at 35th. A more rigorous application of ADA is what gave us the wide platforms at Belmont/Fullerton - unless that was just a convenient excuse to get more funding in order to build properly-sized transfer platforms.

ardecila Jan 19, 2012 4:38 AM
I rescind my remarks about the staggered platform. Apparently the platform will be a conventional center-island one, with more than the required 6' of clearance between obstacles and the platform edge.

I also failed to note that there will be an elevator, which will be installed at the north end of the platform. The ramp will provide handicapped access to the south end of the platform.

I'm glad the CTA isn't spending a boatload of money building a station twice as long as what is required. I'm not glad that the CTA is spending a boatload of money more than they should to build this station.

orulz Jan 19, 2012 6:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 5554995)
Presumably the new viaduct would be concrete and therefore substantially quieter than the existing shrieking steel structure.
Steel viaducts can be made to be pretty quiet if they have a ballasted deck rather than ties directly affixed to the steel substructure...

lawfin Jan 19, 2012 9:28 AM
Sorry I am a little confused here is there going to be a new entrance to the division / clark red line stop at Lasalle? So will one be able to enter the subway at Lasalle and division instead of walking over to clark? I am assuming the entrane at clark will remain as well?

VivaLFuego Jan 19, 2012 3:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 5555245)
Then how can that new Cermak station possibly cost $50 million?
It's probably an all-in cost, not just the construction contract value --- so it would include planning, design, construction management, construction, and owner (CDOT/CTA) staff time billed to the project, all escalated to year of expenditure dollars.

I'll have to check, but there may be some infrastructural work (utilities, structure, track, signals) bundled into the project as well that aren't directly tied to the station but make sense to do as part of the same project.

Nowhereman1280 Jan 19, 2012 3:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 5555245)
Then how can that new Cermak station possibly cost $50 million?

It's some structural steel, some metal stairs, and a concrete platform on stringers. How can it cost three times as much as an entire friggin' Walmart?
Well for one thing, because it's not a Walmart, but rather a train station. Walmarts and other box buildings like that are dirt cheap to build. They are all pre fabricated and basically come as kits that they just slap together. A custom designed, fabricated, and erected train station that needs to be built around the operation of an active, electrified, rail line is going to be just a wee bit more expensive.

ardecila Jan 19, 2012 4:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by orulz (Post 5555757)
Steel viaducts can be made to be pretty quiet if they have a ballasted deck rather than ties directly affixed to the steel substructure...
Theoretically, yeah, but the 110-year-old South Main elevated structure isn't built to carry hundreds of tons of ballast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawfin (Post 5555837)
Sorry I am a little confused here is there going to be a new entrance to the division / clark red line stop at Lasalle? So will one be able to enter the subway at Lasalle and division instead of walking over to clark? I am assuming the entrane at clark will remain as well?
Yes, new entrances along LaSalle. I don't know yet whether the stairs will be on the east side or west side of LaSalle, but the west side would be more convenient for people walking over from Wells or ParkSide.

emathias Jan 19, 2012 9:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 5556088)
...
Yes, new entrances along LaSalle. I don't know yet whether the stairs will be on the east side or west side of LaSalle, but the west side would be more convenient for people walking over from Wells or ParkSide.
It would obviously be a lot cheaper to only put them on the east side of Lasalle, but for the price they're paying I hope they can manage to put them on all four corners of Lasalle.

I would guess they'll build out the Lasalle entrance first so they can shut down the Clark entrance while they rebuild it, similar to how they staged the Cermak (Red Line) project.

Nowhereman1280 Jan 19, 2012 10:08 PM
Thank god for the new design of these stations. I don't think I can stomach another cartoon rendition of our skyline. The bright red wall is a good idea that will help keep this underground space looking lively and is a massive improvement over the current mezzanine. I hardly feel bad seeing the moderne interior go if its being replaced by something that is at least respectable such as this.

untitledreality Jan 19, 2012 10:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280 (Post 5556640)
I hardly feel bad seeing the moderne interior go if its being replaced by something that is at least respectable such as this.
Are you cool with this for the platform?

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-J...20Platform.jpg

It sure would have been nice if they carried the modern look throughout the station down to the platform instead of the tacky PoMo vibe.

Rizzo Jan 19, 2012 11:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 5555245)
Then how can that new Cermak station possibly cost $50 million?

It's some structural steel, some metal stairs, and a concrete platform on stringers. How can it cost three times as much as an entire friggin' Walmart?
You'd be surprised how expensive canopies and railings can get.

ardecila Jan 20, 2012 12:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by untitledreality (Post 5556662)
Are you cool with this for the platform?

It sure would have been nice if they carried the modern look throughout the station down to the platform instead of the tacky PoMo vibe.
They probably will. Making renderings takes awhile and I'm pretty sure CDOT doesn't employ a dedicated CG guru. The picture of the Lake platform was just included to give an idea of how the platform will look when all the improvements are made. If I had to guess, CDOT will probably still use the mosaic tiles on the ceiling (since it's a proven material) but in a simpler pattern or a solid color.

OhioGuy Jan 20, 2012 2:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 5555029)
A clear glass-like roof? Won't it be covered with bird shit within a couple of days? I doubt they'll be able to keep it particularly clean.

pip Jan 20, 2012 3:05 AM
^My thoughts too

J_M_Tungsten Jan 20, 2012 3:11 AM
Lol good point! Also, I wonder what the weight limit on the roof is, that snow can get awfully heavy, although I'm sure they factor that into the design.

Ch.G, Ch.G Jan 20, 2012 4:47 AM
I really dislike the waves.


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