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Lorendoc Jul 3, 2013 8:17 AM

Double Bow Knot Boulevard In Lookout Mtn. Park
 
I am a long-time lurker to this thread and have read up to page 340 or so. I have great respect for the knowledge and passion shown by virtually all the posters; you all have made and are making a significant addition to the historiography of Los Angeles. Great job!

I live in Lookout Mountain Park, and when I read 3940dxer's posts on the Lookout Mountain Inn, my interest was piqued.

For my first post, I thought I would share some information about a mystery street that 3940dxer found: Double Bow Knot Boulevard. 3940dxer posted the following postcard (and if I fail at embedding images, I ask your pardon and would be grateful for any direction to make it succeed.)

http://wwww.dkse.net/david/Lookout/double.bow.bl.jpg

I know most of the streets in this neighborhood quite well, but this was a total blank.

Recently, I found a (public domain) 1924 USGS topo map of Burbank whose SW corner included Lookout Mountain Park. To my surprise, I found Double Bow Knot Blvd.:

http://imageshack.us/a/img203/2998/sdwh.png

I have added a few modern street names for context.

Next is a Bing Maps view of the modern street alignment, with the general area of the switchbacks outlined in orange. Then come two Bing Maps bird's-eye views of the area which actually show the switchbacks (arrows). Lastly I will post a contemporary LA County Assessor's index map which clearly shows upper and lower Crescent were connected when originally surveyed.

Modern streets:
http://imageshack.us/a/img13/6629/5opp.jpg

Aerial view:
http://imageshack.us/a/img19/1108/a5y8.jpg

Close-up:
http://imageshack.us/a/img11/9648/skwh.jpg

County Assessor's map showing connection of upper and lower Crescent Drive:
http://imageshack.us/a/img17/3434/8jjg.jpg

I'll close by mentioning that this area is a 10 minute walk from my house, and that the grades are still visible, although after 100 years, the vegetation has pretty much reclaimed everything. Hope to post more on this area in the near future.

CityBoyDoug Jul 3, 2013 12:25 PM

Missing streets
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorendoc (Post 6185291)
I am a long-time lurker to this thread and have read up to page 340 or so. I have great respect for the knowledge and passion shown by virtually all the posters; you all have made and are making a significant addition to the historiography of Los Angeles. Great job!

I live in Lookout Mountain Park, and when I read 3940dxer's posts on the Lookout Mountain Inn, my interest was piqued. For my first post, I thought I would share some information about a mystery street that 3940dxer found: Double Bow Knot Boulevard. 3940dxer posted the following postcard (and if I fail at embedding images, I ask your pardon and would be grateful for any direction to make it succeed.)


I'll end by mentioning that this area is a 10 minute walk from my house, and that the grades are still visible, although after 100 years, the vegetation has pretty much reclaimed everything. Hope to post more on this area in the near future.

Hi Loren and welcome! What I gather from your post is that some streets have disappeared over time? Did the local landowners just meld the land into their property or did the city legally abandon the streets?

GaylordWilshire Jul 3, 2013 6:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CityBoyDoug (Post 6185089)

Spouse(s)
Grace I. Allin (1902–1903)
Kitty Jewel Perinne (1905–1906)
Olive Stokes (1907–1917)
Victoria Forde (1918–1931)
Mabel Hubbell Ward (1932–1940)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godzilla (Post 6185106)
Maybe you can fill in some pieces to the puzzle, for example, how long Tom resided at Carlton Way, or when he moved. A photo or two of Tom in the neighborhood would also be a treasure.

A quick search of the directories has Tom listed as Fox Photoplayer in '23, on Carlton Way in '26, but by '27 and '29 he is unlisted. Tom's daughter Ruth (also in the picture business) seems to be listed with an address on 1400 Block of N. Crescent Heights Blvd., '27: http://rescarta.lapl.org:8080/ResCar...search_doc=mix '29: http://rescarta.lapl.org:8080/ResCar...search_doc=mix


A little more on Tom Mix's addresses, from 1915: He was at 409 Cedar Street in Glendale with Olive per a 1915 city directory; he had a listing in the 1916 LA CD at 836 West 6th in 1916 (perhaps a crash pad while the marriage to Olive was breaking up); at 1766 N Bronson in the 1917 LA CD, perhaps another bachelor pad; he was at 614 Golden Gate Ave in the 1918 LA CD, but by September of 1918, per his draft information, he was at 5841 Carlton Way with Victoria--apparently remaining there until 1926. By 1930, he and Victoria were at 1330 Schuyler Road, which, rather than being listed as in Beverly Hills, is listed as being in "Los Angeles City"--and, interestingly, is a house we've seen here before but in connection with other Hollywood bigshots: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...postcount=1960

Per the 1931 BH CD, he was at 1010 Summit Drive.


https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-1...2520PM.bmp.jpg
Whadda dump: This house is NOT 5841 Carlton Way--that was on the vacant lot--but rather the one next door to the west, which perhaps gives an idea of the neighborhood in the '20s. Looks like Tom lived pretty modestly until movin' on up to Beverly Hills...


https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/--...2520PM.bmp.jpg
1330 Schuyler Road recently

ethereal_reality Jul 3, 2013 8:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorendoc (Post 6185291)
I live in Lookout Mountain Park, and when I read 3940dxer's posts on the Lookout Mountain Inn, my interest was piqued.

I found a (public domain) 1924 USGS topo map of Burbank whose SW corner included Lookout Mountain Park. To my surprise, I found Double Bow Knot Blvd.:

http://imageshack.us/a/img203/2998/sdwh.png

I have added a few modern street names for context.

This is an excellent find Lorendoc. Welcome to the thread!
__

ethereal_reality Jul 3, 2013 8:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oviatt Building Fan (Post 6184713)
http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/...pseda5faa3.jpg
Huntington Library / Bruce Torrence Hollywood Photo Collection

Named the Sunset Medical Building, it soon became known as the Crescent Heights Shopping Center. The structure was luxurious: its entire front and side facades were paneled in dark tan Napoleon Grand Melange marble from Southern France, and trimmed in burgundy-colored Rosso Levanto marble from Italy. (At the time, only one other commercial structure in L.A. was so completely covered in marble: downtown's 1915 Merritt Building.) The mansard roof's ceramic tiles were glazed a dark green. All cornice trims, display window fittings and gutters were made of copper. The building's rooms were paneled and floored in mahogany; some rooms had terrazzo marble floors. Doctors' and dentists' offices were on the second level: a covered bridge walkway allowed patients to cross from one wing to another. The building's back court had a 30-space parking lot.


Colorized photo of the roof tiles and marble paneling:

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/...psedecd546.jpg

OBF, to say I am impressed by your research would be an understatement. Your slide presentation must have been a great success!
Thank you for sharing your information with us here at noirish Los Angeles.
__

Oviatt Building Fan Jul 3, 2013 8:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 6185965)
To say I am impressed by your research would be an understatement OBF. Your slide presentation must have been a great success!


Thank you very much, E_R!, I really appreciate it! If I weren't for your incredible thread, I would never have stumbled across the Huntington Library Archive photo that set off my curiosity. It's because of the "noirish Los Angeles" community that the slide presentation came to pass.

P.S.: The whole presentation was filmed. As soon as this video (nearly an hour!) is posted online, may I send you a link to it? It's filled with many never-published photos that I can't post here, unfortunately.

.

ethereal_reality Jul 3, 2013 8:53 PM

:previous: That would be great!

fhammon Jul 3, 2013 8:57 PM

Does anybody know if this house still exists?
It's supposed to be the home of John Barrymore and Delores Costello but I can't find any other photos or information on it. It's supposedly on Summit(ridge?) Drive.

http://ciajfk.com/barrymore/images/barry-home.jpg http://ciajfk.com/barrymore/fr_index...more/john.html

Mostly the couple lived at 454 South Windsor Boulevard, Los Angeles:

http://blog.allanellenberger.com/wp-...more-house.jpghttp://allanellenberger.com/category...y-real-estate/

What's this place at 1301 Summitridge Dr. called the "Barrymore Mansion" at this geeky Manson Family website?:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-pGU8iNY0Gr...400/summit.jpg

http://www.eviliz.com/2011/08/barrymore-mansion.html

ethereal_reality Jul 3, 2013 10:07 PM

I highly doubt movie studios are allowed arsenals now-a-days.

Paramount Studios 1939
http://imageshack.us/a/img829/2402/mfjv.jpg
ebay

Have a great Fourth of July everyone!
__

Godzilla Jul 3, 2013 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fhammon (Post 6186001)
Does anybody know if this house still exists?
It's supposed to be the home of John Barrymore and Delores Costello but I can't find any other photos or information on it. It's supposedly on Summit(ridge?) Drive.

http://ciajfk.com/barrymore/images/barry-home.jpg http://ciajfk.com/barrymore/fr_index...more/john.html

Mostly the couple lived at 454 South Windsor Boulevard, Los Angeles:

http://blog.allanellenberger.com/wp-...more-house.jpghttp://allanellenberger.com/category...y-real-estate/

What's this place at 1301 Summitridge Dr. called the "Barrymore Mansion" at this geeky Manson Family website?:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-pGU8iNY0Gr...400/summit.jpg

http://www.eviliz.com/2011/08/barrymore-mansion.html

I started at the usual sources to locate the purported Barrymore home - said to have existed below what is now the Sunset Strip and down the road from William S Hart's abode. The closest I came was 1215 Alta Loma Rd., West Hollywood and the Garden of Allah Apts., at Crescent Heights. These addresses are close but definitely not the same location for what was also known as Butterfield's Restaurant.

There are a slew of other unconfirmed addresses for John Barrymore. Remember, the operative word is - UNCONFIRMED. As a wild guess - the postcard of the chemosphere'esq roof line probably depicts Tower Road. Tower has been associated with a many celebrities, most of whom could rehab such premises to their liking. Of course the other addresses in the Hills, e.g., Temple Hill, Beverly Grove, Bellagio and Outpost could easily have accommodated the post card structure. I now wonder about the residence below that looks like it sat or sits in the "flats" of Hollywood - where ever that may be. :shrug:



9941 Tower Lane, BH ('20s and 30s)
9897 Tower Road // 'Bella Vista' Barrymore estate, aka "6 Tower Road", BH
9946 Beverly Grove Drive, Beverly Hills, California ('40s)
1301 Summitridge Drive, BH aka listed as Belfast Drive ('30s)
1301 Belfast Drive, LA
11000 Bellagio Place
11300 Bellagio
2201 Outpost Drive, LA ('30s)
605 S. Irving Blvd (Hancock Park) aka the Getty House
8152 Sunset Blvd.- (Garden of Allah)
2000 N Fuller Ave ('50s)
7021 Hollywood Blvd. (Garden Court Apts.)
6525 W. Sunset Blvd. (Hollywood Athletic Club)
6147 Temple Hill Drive, LA
3400 Wilshire Blvd (The Ambassador Hotel )

and 454 S. Windsor Blvd. :previous:


http://www.image-archeology.com/Home..._Calif_A83.jpghttp://www.image-archeology.com/Home..._Calif_A83.jpg

http://www.image-archeology.com/Resi...fornia_825.jpghttp://www.image-archeology.com/Resi...fornia_825.jpg




http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Pmjd5_C6-M...+Stars+Map.jpghttp://skyscraperpage.com/forum/show...ostcount=11274

Godzilla Jul 3, 2013 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire (Post 6185838)
A little more on Tom Mix's addresses, from 1915: He was at 409 Cedar Street in Glendale with Olive per a 1915 city directory; he had a listing in the 1916 LA CD at 836 West 6th in 1916 (perhaps a crash pad while the marriage to Olive was breaking up); at 1766 N Bronson in the 1917 LA CD, perhaps another bachelor pad; he was at 614 Golden Gate Ave in the 1918 LA CD, but by September of 1918, per his draft information, he was at 5841 Carlton Way with Victoria--apparently remaining there until 1926. By 1930, he and Victoria were at 1330 Schuyler Road, which, rather than being listed as in Beverly Hills, is listed as being in "Los Angeles City"--and, interestingly, is a house we've seen here before but in connection with other Hollywood bigshots: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...postcount=1960


Per the 1931 BH CD, he was at 1010 Summit Drive.


https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-1...2520PM.bmp.jpg
Whadda dump: This house is NOT 5841 Carlton Way--that was on the vacant lot--but rather the one next door to the west, which perhaps gives an idea of the neighborhood in the '20s. Looks like Tom lived pretty modestly until movin' on up to Beverly Hills...


https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/--...2520PM.bmp.jpg
1330 Schuyler Road recently



Thanks for the Tom Mix-follow-up.

I tried looking at some of TM's associated properties with the idea that each probably might have had to accommodate Tony or some of his equine friends. I can visualize one or two animals grazing the front '40 on Carlton Way. Went to Golden Gate Ave, but can you confirm that the address was "614" rather than the previously reported "1614?" I don't have access to the 1918 directory.

The 1915 lists a "TE" Mix as a Producer with the Selig Polyscope Co., in Glendale. http://rescarta.lapl.org:8080/ResCar...ix&submit=Find Tom's middle name was first Hezikiah, yet Wiki explains Tom enlisted in the Army as Thomas "Edwin" Mix, and that Tom ultimately went AWOL. IF this were true, wonder what effort, if any, the Army went to find him. :rolleyes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Mix

A few other "unconfirmed" addresses "associated" with Mix:

836 W. 66th Street., LA
3456 Floyd Terrace, LA
2459 Teviot Street, LA and
4040 Stansbury Ave., Sherman Oaks (http://movielanddirectory.com/star.cfm?star=58665 )

GaylordWilshire Jul 4, 2013 12:09 AM

:previous:

Gozilla--

I mistyped. I looked again at the 1918 city directory to be sure--Mix was at 1614 Golden Gate Ave, not 614. Sorry about that.

fhammon Jul 4, 2013 1:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godzilla (Post 6186165)
I started at the usual sources to locate the purported Barrymore home - said to have existed below what is now the Sunset Strip and down the road from William S Hart's abode. The closest I came was 1215 Alta Loma Rd., West Hollywood and the Garden of Allah Apts., at Crescent Heights. These addresses are close but definitely not the same location for what was also known as Butterfield's Restaurant.


http://www.image-archeology.com/Resi...fornia_825.jpghttp://www.image-archeology.com/Resi...fornia_825.jpg



Thanks, Godzilla but the truth is I'm more interested in the house at this point that I am in John Barrymore.
I love that end octagonal room or deck with the view.

Albany NY Jul 4, 2013 1:32 AM

Uploading Images
 
I hope this helps someone out there. Whenever I want to post, I open another window in my browser, so I can upload images, while still being connected to this site. It makes it easier to go back and forth between the hosting site and here. I use ImageShack.com for uploading. Easy to work with. Open an ImageShack account, go to "My Images" and simply drag-and-drop an image onto the screen. When you do that, an "Upload" screen will pop up showing a thumbnail image. Halfway down that pop-up it will say "Type" and "Direct", with a link just below. Highlight the link, and right-click to "Copy". You are now ready to insert the image into your post. To do that, just type any message you want, then click the little icon above the text box (the little square icon with a drawing of a mountian). A JavaScript pop-up will appear, with "http://" highlighted. Right-click on the hightlighted text, and "Paste". Hit "OK". Your image is now included in your post. You won't immediately see the actual image. It will appear in the text box as [IMG]https://imageshack.com/blah,blah,blah[IMG]. Once you have text and images as you want it, hit the "Preview Post" button below. You will now be able to see your post as it will appear, hopefully including the photo you want. I hope this helps. It seems daunting at first, but it becomes easier really fast! BTW, as with all images, you MUST remember to credit the original source of the image. It may seem picky, but legally it is VERY important. Good luck!
https://imageshack.com/scaled/large/443/6zbm.jpgGarry's Stuff
P.S. -- Yes, that is me, and yes, I have pasty-white chicken-legs. So sue me!

CityBoyDoug Jul 4, 2013 1:38 AM

Bella Vista & Barrymore
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fhammon (Post 6186315)
Thanks, Godzilla but the truth is I'm more interested in the house at this point that I am in John Barrymore.
I love that end octagonal room or deck with the view.

Bella Vista. Much of this home and the property in general has been extensively remodeled. Here is a view from Beverly Grove Drive and Tower Grove Drive...seen here is one of the guest houses that now connects to the main house..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...psa780c1a8.jpg GSV
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...ps94a5b8ad.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...psdfb99819.jpg

fhammon Jul 4, 2013 1:55 AM

[QUOTE=CityBoyDoug;6186324]Bella Vista. Much of this home and the property in general has been extensively remodeled. Here is a view from Beverly Grove Drive and Tower Grove Drive....[if this is the same house].

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...psa780c1a8.jpg GSV

That's it!
Thanks, CBD!
Bella Vista.

"Former hilltop location of movie legend John Barrymore's "Bella Vista". Purchased from King Vidor (snip) 1927. In 1996 ex husband of Barabra Streisand director John Peters demolished most of the estate."
http://wikimapia.org/15893715/Bella-...rrymore-former

It looks as though it's been much expanded but in the same style with the octagonal theme repeated once more or the deck was moved from it's original location.
The larger house next door behind copies the theme.

34°5'46"N 118°25'27"W

See it in crude 3D using Google Earth.

Gotta love this forum....

It's confusing though...
Some people are calling this Bella Vista:

http://www.katharinehepburntheater.o...re-300x181.jpg

It doesn't look the same to me.

http://www.katharinehepburntheater.o...rymore-estate/

Godzilla Jul 4, 2013 2:54 AM

[QUOTE=fhammon;6186338]
Quote:

Originally Posted by CityBoyDoug (Post 6186324)
Bella Vista. Much of this home and the property in general has been extensively remodeled. Here is a view from Beverly Grove Drive and Tower Grove Drive....[if this is the same house].

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...psa780c1a8.jpg GSV

That's it!
Thanks, CBD!
Bella Vista.

"Former hilltop location of movie legend John Barrymore's "Bella Vista". Purchased from King Vidor (snip) 1927. In 1996 ex husband of Barabra Streisand director John Peters demolished most of the estate."
http://wikimapia.org/15893715/Bella-...rrymore-former

It looks as though it's been much expanded but in the same style with the octagonal theme repeated once more or the deck was moved from it's original location.
The larger house next door behind copies the theme.

34°5'46"N 118°25'27"W

See it in crude 3D using Google Earth.

Gotta love this forum....

It's confusing though...
Some people are calling this Bella Vista:

http://www.katharinehepburntheater.o...re-300x181.jpg

It doesn't look the same to me.

http://www.katharinehepburntheater.o...rymore-estate/




:shrug:
I don't believe they are the same "beautiful views" and am convinced the home pictured was not the home with the view. But confusion is bound to occur, even if it is unintentional.

Vidor owned several properties. Addresses and streets have been renamed and renumbered. Stories get mixed up with "possible" facts which is one of the reasons I find the Butterfields-Barrymore association as interesting as several other unconfirmed stories about Barrymore in what is now West Hollywood*.

More grist for the mill here (including reference to Tom Mix!): http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...postcount=8043



Notice John Gilbert's home and its interesting barrel-tiled roof line. And the "tower" above the property. ;) The map is dated '26. Barrymore (John) did not make the list. (Maybe he was using Lionel's spare bedroom).
http://jpg1.lapl.org/maps/lg//MAP_0051.jpg

http://jpg1.lapl.org/maps/lg//MAP_0052.jpghttp://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...postcount=8043



(*The usual sources Ms. Streisand being married twice, but not to Mr. Peters. :shrug: )

fhammon Jul 4, 2013 4:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godzilla (Post 6186384)
:shrug:
I don't believe they are the same "beautiful views" and am convinced the home pictured was not the home with the view. But confusion is bound to occur, even if it is unintentional.

Vidor owned several properties. Addresses and streets have been renamed and renumbered. Stories get mixed up with "possible" facts which is one of the reasons I find the Butterfields-Barrymore association as interesting as several other unconfirmed stories about Barrymore in what is now West Hollywood*.


(*The usual sources Ms. Streisand being married twice, but not to Mr. Peters. :shrug: )

Thanks, again Godzilla.
That Beverly Hills info was excellent.

Here's something else I came across but you've no doubt seen it already:

Early Beverly Hills

Lorendoc Jul 4, 2013 4:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CityBoyDoug (Post 6185357)
Hi Loren and welcome! What I gather from your post is that some streets have disappeared over time? Did the local landowners just meld the land into their property or did the city legally abandon the streets?

Hi CBDoug, thanks for the welcome. In my neighborhood there are a lot of streets that have been "removed from public use," probably much to the city's relief for not having to provide maintenance and other infrastucture improvements. The lower part of Double Bow Knot Blvd. is pretty well washed out, which is no surprise considering the grade. Usually what happens is a group of property owners petitions the city to withdraw the street, and the owners take on responsibility for pavement, utilities etc. This occurs by the City Council passing an ordinance. I may in the future try to see what happened here if feasible. I will post some pictures of the scary posters the private road operators use to keep us riff-raff out :)

Lorendoc Jul 4, 2013 4:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 6185941)
This is an excellent find Lorendoc. Welcome to the thread!
__

Thank you e_r it is good to be here and to finally stop lurking (although I still have pages 350-772 to read yet). And thank you Albany NY for your posting suggestions, I seem to have gotten the basic hang of it.

I took a bunch of pictures of the current abandoned roadway of Double Bow Knot Blvd this morning, but had to go visit some cousins in Montecito for the holiday and don't have the right USB-miniport cable with me. I'll post them this weekend after I get home.

The 1924 USGS topo I found has a lot of interesting information about the development of roads in Lookout Mountain Park and Laurel Canyon in general.

I have also found articles from the LA Express and the LA Examiner on the brushfire that consumed the Lookout Mountain Inn on October 26, 1918, to supplement the article from the LA Times 3940dxer already posted around page 325 or so. They provide some interesting sidelights on the fire, and I will post them when I get the chance.


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