^ that would make sense, then add in that teens and younger twenty somethings tend to think they are invincible.

today i noticed the 14st busway has seperated bike lane in union square now and the temporary boarding pads are being installed:


http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...psgyafrgdn.jpg

http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...psvdkusqak.jpg

http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...psquoiwgmy.jpg

I mean, solving it generally requires more frequent pickups and more garbage trucks on city streets. Hard problem to solve unless you tackle congestion first...

Part of the problem is how removal is handled in NYC with dozens of separate companies doing over a given area which creates a problem all its own with safety, there have been some deaths. It’s pretty absurd.

Also like take out some parking here and there to use the big bins like they’ve got in Spain so the garbage can come off the sidewalk.

This is good stuff

brewer wants more busways -- starting with uptown next:


Manhattan beep wants to bring ’busway’ to Harlem and Washington Heights

By CLAYTON GUSE
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS |
NOV 24, 2019 | 6:49 PM


Manhattan’s first-ever “busway” on 14th St. is such a success that Borough President Gale Brewer is pushing to give two uptown streets the same treatment.

Brewer last week sent a letter to city Transportation Commissioner Polly Trottenberg to request the agency study the possibility of kicking cars to the curb on 125th and W. 181st Sts. to make way for buses.

Brewer says traffic restrictions on 14th St. that took effect in early October have been “transformational," and Trottenberg should look uptown to repeat their success.


more:
https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...d6i-story.html

Question for New Yorkers... apart from the issues with ADA access, why is a 14th St busway needed when the L train runs directly down 14th?

Wondering more generally the wisdom of car bans when there's already subway service. If NYC bans cars on 125th St, is that a plausible replacement for 2nd Ave Subway - Phase 2?

^Not a NYer but this 14th St busway push all stemmed from the L train shutdown scare and maybe would not have happened without the threat/fear that the L shutdown was going to be commuter hell.

Right, and I'm not saying these busways are a bad idea!

I'm just wondering if they should be focused on the many underserved corridors in NYC instead of duplicating existing high-capacity subway service. And the related question, can a new busway substitute for a subway extension in some cases?

The 14th Street corridor is one of Manhattan's busiest crosstown routes, and connects areas like the East Village/Lower East Side to the major north-south subway trunk lines. The L train is mostly Brooklyn traffic, and doesn't compete with the 14th Street buses.

I think he's asking though why couldn't someone in Manhattan just take the subway instead of the bus. I'd say they would take the bus for why most people would, that the entry/exit point is closer than the subway station would be, no?

Well, yeah... but again, consider the contrapositive of my initial question. If the city is gonna do this on 125th St next, then why extend the 2nd Ave Subway along the same corridor? Why couldn't you do a full busway on Nostrand and Utica in Brooklyn instead of subway extensions?

New York suffers from a huge construction cost problem that is unrivaled in the world. The city literally can't afford to build the subways it needs... but they just proved they can create more transit capacity overnight for tiny sums of money. So why not do that more, in outer-borough or far uptown locations? The existing SBS is only a half-measure.

Off the top of my head, besides the huge difference in capacity between modes, would be:

1) Other streets are not necessarily comparable to 14th in that they are more important to the immediate area and/or a lack of other parallel thoroughfares where all that traffic would go. And that's not even getting into what the merchants would have to say about making streets bus only

2) The examples of potential busway streets really are local buses, in that much fewer people are taking them far distances beyond the thoroughfare they serve instead disembarking at a subway station the bus serves. So in other words in many cases the people catching the busway bus on the streets you hypothetically suggest are just taking the bus to the subway, and is only part of a longer commute to a central business district (in this case Manhattan) or taking the subway to other subways through transfer(s), and would benefit enormously from subway extensions. Yes the absurd cost of building subterranean in NY is well known. This is a theoretical exercise.

Because the subway doesn't serve the 14th street bus riders. Again, they're traveling to/from the LES/East Village. There's no subway entrance east of Ave. A., even on 14th (and that Ave. A entrance is brand new). But these riders don't live along 14th, for the most part. They live in the eastern fringes of Manhattan, with no subway.

I used to date a girl who lived on 2nd street, between B & C. She would use the bus to head to Union Square. She was too far east for the subway, and her nearest subway (F) heads north-south, not east-west, and serves the West Side only. Once the SAS opens in the East Village, this issue will be somewhat ameliorated (but that will take many years; I think that's the final SAS construction phase).

And, yeah, busways make a lot of sense. But they'll never replace high capacity subway corridors like the SAS. Sometimes you gotta build high capacity rail, even if the costs are obscene. The costs of not providing such rail are far higher (as we see now with NJ, which has become the chronic underperformer of the NE Corridor, simply because Christie cancelled the new Hudson rail tunnel, basically harming all west-of-Hudson commuters).

^ thats not true. the L train served us western 14st bus riders equally as the bus did prior to the busway. it was always a tossup and a pain as to which to use as the busses were so pokey. now that the busway is in place the choice is easy, its the bus every time.

as to sas subway, yes the next phase curves around on 125st, with an eye toward running it west, but there are no plans to do that. the next phases of sas bring it south.

so sure making 125st a busway street is a great idea. same for utica. while it still requires a transfer from the subway i can definitely say the busways greatly benefit riders and speed up commutes. its amazing what can happen when you get rid of the cars.

seems like you can get quite a lot of bang for relatively few bucks with them.

temporary busway boarding platform installation this morning:


http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...psas4e9wlm.jpg

I guess it depends on whether you are proposing turing a 125th or a Utica into a true car free busway or not. I just cannot see a closure of cars to 125th St or Utica in the same way 14th has.

^ totally agreed.

then again, it was equally hard to imagine turning 14st into a busway and here were are.

The subway stops at 8th; obviously if you live near the Hudson you'll hop on the bus if you're traveling locally.

I was talking about the LES, not Harlem. The SAS will eventually serve the LES.

What I find hard to imagine is how cities among the world's largest and densest allow key thoroughfares to become clogged with inefficient private automobiles. It reminds me of those paintings from medieval times showing bridges lined with buildings. Almost like they were thinking, "What? How could we possibly treat this key piece of transportation infrastructure any differently than a normal street? Normal streets are lined with buildings, so this one should be too!" :hmmm: