Four groups show interest in O'Hare express train project
Source: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...207-story.html


I just hope some use is given to that superstation under Block 37 that has been sitting there for over a decade. Reopening the Washington Red Line station would also be nice...

That Michigan Ave station is mind-bogglingly dumb.

Move it east to where the line intersects the Metra Electric and build a station that connects both. Use that proposed 130th street station to connect with the South Shore.

Then you can get rid of the Kensington station at 115th which is falling apart anyway.

Nice, let's hope this keeps moving forward

The city owns a large parcel of land at Michigan/115th and wants to create a retail/residential hub for the neighborhood there. Of course, they're also planning to put up a huge park/ride garage on 1/3 of that parcel, so probably this will end up an urban failure like the area around Howard :shrug:

Plannign documents have also suggested a South Shore station at 130th with a transfer, but that would be a project for South Shore to figure out. There's no reason to even plan that station unless the Red Line Extension is built first.

In my opinion, every station on the Red Line extension is dumb.

Was there ever an official estimate for converting the Metra Electric Line into a CTA Line? That hits all the higher density south side lakefront neighborhoods and runs a few blocks east of the proposed red line extension. It seems like a no brainer to finally pull the trigger on the Grey Line. The far south side has instant L access and it also improves transit access to the densest lakefront neighborhoods on the south side.

I don't know what it takes to convince "you people"......NO ONE WANTS TO RIDE THE FORMER IC." Is "IrishIllini" going to ride Metra Electric?? No! Does "IrishIllini" feel ALL MONEY be given to north side and let the south side get nothing? Yes! DISCRIMINATION!

DH

I'm not sure if you're being tongue in cheek or what, but with the money used for the extension, the CTA/Metra could no doubt turn the "former IC" into something people might want to ride, plus it would be near existing density and businesses so that when people see the service upgraded into something pleasant to ride, ridership could actually blossom into a useful level.

My thoughts as well :cheers:

Sure, but they’re not going to vote for Chuy Garcia.

They’ll turn a profit easily when prices rise. That’s already happening in some markets. They had to get people hooked on the product first.

I will say that Chicago, and probably American cities in general, have really substandard traffic management systems in comparison to Europe. Too many lanes, but too much “freedom” given to drivers to decide which one to use. You need lanes and concrete medians and things to force people into the right lane for where they want to go blocks before they actually turn. And yes, lots of traffic enforcement cameras.

Roundabouts are also vastly superior to signal-controlled intersections in many cases, but that’s probably never going to catch on in the US.

Gentlemen....Have you actually seen Metra Electric...stations from 107th through 63rd St.? Have you actually seen the environments around those stations? I feel so many want to grasp the idea that those former Illinois Central Suburban lines can blossom into the fruit and flowers and look and perform like the 1920s through the 1950s.....definitely negative. The only thing ME shares with the CTA Red line is the 4ft. 8 1/2 in. If you are too scared to come to the communities, use Google Maps and tour the section and half-section streets around ME and see what you think.

DH

Will people continue to use them as frequently when prices rise?

No. That’s the point it was getting at - the congestion will sort itself out.

Ride sharing is still in the marketing/customer awareness building phase at this point. Despite how ubiquitous they seem, most people have still never taken an Uber. My dad took his first few with me when I visited him last September.

And it’s the same for drivers. A lot of people still “giving it a try”, not all of whom will keep driving long-term.

Eventually, I predict that they will move toward a higher price, lower volume model. Same revenue, but higher margins (for the companies and drivers) and fewer cars on the road. But you need to find all of your less price sensitive consumers first.

The areas around the IC are no different from the areas around the proposed Red Line Extension, either physically (they look pretty much the same) or density-wise. In the case of South Shore, the neighborhood is significantly denser than anything along the Red Line.

The areas around the IC are arguably much better than the areas around the existing Red Line Dan Ryan Branch, which is mostly swamped with strip malls, drive-thrus and heavy traffic.

The IC serves Hyde Park, which is the biggest concentration of jobs on the South Side and only developing further as UChicago and other institutions grow.

The ONLY way that the IC is not a superior rapid transit corridor is the fact that it ends downtown with no direct crosstown link. Of course, somebody could get off at Millennium Station and board a 151 or 147 for quick access to the North Side, or take a short walk through the Pedway to the Red Line at Lake, so it's not like the IC dumps passengers in some wasteland.

I'm not sure that rideshare congestion should be considered a problem. I think a bigger worry is rideshare undermining public transit and the congestion problem should be a self balancing mechanism to stop rideshare from being too appealing relative to mass transit.

It'd be less of an issue if Chicago's transit weren't so bus-dependant. I guess if it pushes the city to do more with bus-only lanes it'd be okay, but as it is, slower traffic means slower transit for over half of transit riders.

What am I missing? I've driven around down there and I didn't notice much of a "feel" difference between existing Metra Electric areas. Looking at crime maps, there also doesn't seem to be much of a difference between where the Red Line extension would be and where the existing ME stations are.

I'm guessing pcclcar1 owns or rents property closer to the proposed red line route. The Metra Electric becoming a CTA-operated line does more for the south side than extending the red line.

Not trying to derail (ouch, pun) this conversation or anything but does anyone here think there is any chance at all that the Cta could [in theory] convert one or more of the highest ridership long and straight E-W southside bus routes to lightrail/streetcar? The #79 easily receives enough ridership to justify it. Thoughts?

They could in theory, yes.

I suspect you really are asking whether it would be a good idea. Let's look at the relevant criteria ("I like streetcars" is not a relevant criterion).

First, cost per rider would go up. Remember that not only do light rail lines have enormous capital and vehicle costs, but their expenses per rider are also much greater. Looking at NTDB figures for systems that operate both light rail and buses, we see that operating costs per hour are more than double (average 220% of bus costs) but crush capacity is only 50% greater.

Next, capacity. I'm not aware that the 79 or 81 see crush loading for much, if any, of the day. For the passenger, of course, waiting 6 minutes for the next vehicle is much preferable to waiting 12 minutes for a larger vehicle.

Finally, guideway. Obviously there'd be little point in building a new streetcar line that gets stuck in traffic, so that means taking away two lanes of the street—more at stops. Well, if that's politically palatable, why not start by creating a busway? If passenger volumes get up above 5000 passenger-miles per route-mile, then you could consider installing a light rail line there.

I own no property in the area. I want genuine CTA Rapid Transit.....I don't want a Metra conversion with 100 percent less service and five hundred percent more expense. Why can't your intellectuals see that!!

All of you people are welcome to spread your intellect out on the south side if you dare. Speaking is so much easier than carrying on a debate in the internet, don't you agree?? Here's the meeting.

Public Open House Scheduled for the Red Line Extension Preferred Alignment
CTA is hosting a public open house to provide information on the Preferred Alignment for the Red Line Extension (RLE) Project. At the open house, you will learn more about the Preferred Alignment and anticipated project benefits and impacts. You will also have the opportunity to provide feedback. CTA welcomes your comments and feedback about the Preferred Alignment and potential impacts.

Tuesday, February 13, 2018
6:00 - 8:00 PM
Gwendolyn Brooks College Preparatory Academy
Main Gym (west side of building)
250 E. 111th. Street, Chicago, IL 60628
*Please enter through Door 8. Parking available in rear of building.
Parking lot entrance via King Drive.This location is served by CTA Bus #111, 4, 34, 111A, 115, and 119; and Metra Electric 111th Street (Pullman) Station.

The facility is accessible to people with disabilities.

Peace!

Why do you assume fares on a converted IC line would be higher than other CTA train lines? And why do you assume headways would be less than the Green Line branches? Surely those would be the two most basic conditions underlying any transfer of operation or branding. Don't let your distaste for the Gray Line's main proponent blind you to the benefits of better using existing infrastructure.

Why do you think it's good policy for CTA to extend the Red Line and run eight-car trains on eight-minute headways through an area with such low population and even lower ridership potential? Fewer than 20,000 people live within a half-mile walk of all four new RLE stations combined. I find it hard to imagine that boardings will even cover the station agents' salaries.

CTA does not allow public speaking at their "open houses." You write your question or comment on an index card and put it in a shoebox, to be responded to later.

WILL ANY INTELLECTUALS AT "SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Transportation" AFFECT THE CTA/CHICAGO RED LINE EXTENSION???? NO!!! So it's hopeless to argue!! They will never learn.

Peace. DH

^ Not sure what you mean by "they". It's pretty clear that Rahm is slow-rolling the project until it is politically convenient to give it the chop.

If this were truly a priority for the administration, they would be knocking on doors in Washington and hiring lobbyists to get the dang thing approved and funded. They would be providing CTA with the money they need to continue planning, land acquisition, and early engineering work. Instead, CTA has a trickle of funding to do this work and the periodic announcements of "progress" are just for show. CTA and the Mayor's Office are all too happy to pin the blame on dysfunction in Washington, but that's not the real holdup.

Plus, there's the big new station at 95th which has gotten far more hoopla from the Mayor's Office. The stated purpose of the 95th St project is to ease bus congestion and improve conditions at the terminal. But if the Red Line is going to be extended, and bus passengers will be making their connections at 103rd, 111th, and 115th, then why invest all that money adding new bus bays at 95th?

I'm guessing the Mayor will schedule a grand opening for the 95th St station in the months leading up to the election. Assuming he is re-elected, the Red Line Extension plans will be quietly shelved, just like all the other big CTA proposals were. Maybe another big new project will take its place in the planning queue, maybe not.

a quick CTA question.

after spending nearly all of my life as a regular red line rider, our recent move to lincoln square has turned me into a regular brown line rider for the first time.

why does the CTA route some brown line trains through the loop and onto the orange line tracks down to midway? and how long has this been going on?

I think they do it primarily because of the small size of the yard at Kimball. They've been doing it at least since the 8-car expansion project, maybe longer.

I hope so, although I've also heard stated on here that the CTA, once the Red/Purple modernization plan completes, will need a larger yard at 95th, so some of the project needs to happen anyway, and maybe the cost of expanding the yard at 95th is not that much less than making a line to a lower-cost, higher-space area further south so they figure they may as well throw in a few extra stations and get the political good will out of that.

I can't imagine that's the case. The current yard is a small patch in the middle of a truly massive interchange. There is plenty of room to expand the yard, either within the interchange or within the median of the Bishop Ford a little further east, given a little roadwork.

Perhaps it could be coupled with a short one-station extension that would put a station directly at Chicago State University (with the potential for a transfer to the Metra Electric eventually). Of course, the future of that institution is also very much in doubt, but perhaps better access would enable it to draw a larger and stronger student body.

Since 2009, one Orange Line train in both morning and evening rush (might now be more than one run) continues to Kimball as a Brown Line train and returns to Midway yard. It's because they need more trains on Brown than can be stored at Kimball.

ardecila.....Even though I support the CTA Red line extension....your post contains some factual truths that even I have to agree with.

DH

25 Years of Color-Coded Lines on the CTA
 

The Pink Line has been a thing for 12 years now. Time certainly does fly.

Just thinking out loud here, but with the massive boom in the West Loop, access to that area from the north side isn't particularly good without transferring. I'm wondering whether it makes sense to reroute the purple line rush hour service from the Loop? Instead of having it make the left turn onto the Loop for a clockwise route, instead turn trains westward along the Lake Street elevated to perhaps Ashland or wherever trains could be turned back? If purple line express riders want to reach the Loop, they can transfer to a brown line train or red line train at Belmont. Otherwise this option would give north side riders a one seat ride to the expanding employment market in the West Loop during the morning & afternoon rush periods.

Do you have a moment to talk about our savior, the Clinton/Larrabee subway :D

Haha, well that would be nice! But probably more than a decade away from reality (if it ever becomes a reality). So in the meantime sending the purple line west on the Lake Street elevated tracks might be a cost effective way to provide direct access to the West Loop for northsiders during the weekday rush periods. Might also help free up some space in the Loop? (unless going through the junction at the NW side of the Loop would minimize the ability to relieve Loop congestion).

Lake and Wells has no southbound-to-westbound turnout; Tower 18 sits in that quadrant. For that matter, no eastbound-to-northbound either, to run the trains back to Linden.

Ah ok, didn’t realize that. Thanks for the info. Unfortunate it’s not possible with the current infrastructure given how unlikely it is to have a separate rail line between the north side & west side in the near or even moderately distant future. Is there enough space to add it in (if the tower could be fit in somewhere else)?

https://www.chicago-l.org/operations...s/tower18r.jpg

That's a lot of money and trouble just to avoid some (pretty easy) transfers. Purple-to-Green is just up and over to the other platform at Clark/Lake. Brown-to-Pink is just under and over to the other platform at Washington/Wells. Purple-to-Pink is same platform anywhere on the Loop.

The City really does need to get serious about the Larrabe-Clinton subway sooner rather than later. It's been talked about for 50 years (at least similar plans have been), and it's finally at a point where it's becoming a "need" rather than a "nice-to-have." If the CTA planned well, it could at least start it after the RPM is complete and then either run the Purple all day through Clinton, or switch Purple to Clinton and run Red through Clinton.

In the longer planning, having it touch base in Chinatown and then swing west to Halstead as a subway through Bridgeport, then east at Pershing to the south Lakefront would accomplish a lot as a long-tern plan (completion circa 2040?).

Are there any plans to building a flyover at tower 18 for the brownline there? It could really use it in the morning rush hours!

No. Where would you put the third track without totally darkening the sidewalk?

I don't know, I'm sure an engineer could figure something out. Maybe make the brown line a subway? I know the loop is sacred, but I kind of wish it would be a subway. Like you say it darkens the streets and is super noisy and annoying to walk under, standing on a outdoor platform in freezing windy winter day isn't fun, the tracks would last longer in a subway tunnel not exposed to the elements ect. There's a lot of practical reasons why a subway would be better. Without all those train intersections the trains could run at better headways if they had their own dedicated tracks.

There were proposals in 1968 to submerge the entire Loop, in the same plan that presented the Monroe subway to Streeterville and McCormick Place.

Yea, that would have been good. I also really like the Franklin subway they planned in 1977. Basically the brownline would enter a rapid subway from around North/Larrabee and go south to Roosevelt with stops along the way. That would have been great!

Instead they used the federal money for the blue line to Ohare and Midway line which were needed as well. But I think those other lines should have been built too at some point. Maybe if we ever get a National Infrastructure bill passed.

I wish CTA would smooth out those sharp curves on the Brown Line at North Ave before that area gets filled in with development. The sharp curves are halfway between Armitage and Sedgwick, where the train should be traveling at high speed...

I don't think a one-seat ride from the North Side to the West Loop is a good goal. CTA should instead focus on making the transfers as easy and painless as possible. Put in a direct connection at State/Lake so Red Line folks don't have to cram through two turnstiles. Do the same at Jackson, with a structure in Pritzker Park that links down to the Red/Blue transfer tunnel. This should have been done decades ago, when the plans to tear down the Loop were officially shelved and downtown land was still relatively cheap.

Just get rid of the pain points (cheap compared to a new subway) and people will happily change trains. Especially during peak times when frequency is very high.

I've also thought for a long time that the city should put in the road infrastructure (street connections, bridges, etc) to allow for a north/south bus route roughly along Racine, halfway between Ashland and Halsted. This would hit the center of the West Loop employment cluster, and if the bridges are bus-only, the route would become a faster alternative to the slow, congestion-plagued Halsted bus. It would basically go from the Fullerton station south to Goose Island, the Chicago Blue Line stop, West Loop, UIC. Eventually could be extended down Loomis into Bridgeport for an Orange Line connection.

Awww come on, it's not all about efficiency!

One of the greatest things about the Brown Line is those sharp turns right next to peoples' windows, where you can peer in and see a guy watching TV or some girl getting undressed... ;)

Seriously, wannabe cities like Atlanta, Dallas and the like will never build the damn Brown line. Let it remain a bit windy and rickety just for the hell of it.

Yea, transfer tunnels should have been done a long time ago as well.

Why isn't direct access from the northside to the west loop a good goal? That's where all the new office construction is going. See Google, McDonalds, Tyson foods, post office redevelopment, $500 million investment in the sear tower, 2 new office towers along the river, another wacker drive tower going up soon. Offices are trying to be as close to Ogilvie and Union station area as possible. That area has the best pull from everyone in the burbs plus the city. There should be a direct train from the northside to that spot.

I think the State / Lake rehab is planned to include a connection to the Lake red line station, thankfully.

All the office construction in West Loop (west of the Kennedy) is still only a fraction of the traditional Loop market. CTA’s lines from the North Side are at capacity, so any trains running to West Loop are trains that can’t serve the Central, East, or South Loop. It’s a zero sum game.

The other aspect is that office development isn’t just occurring along the Lake St corridor. Large office development are planned for the Related parcel in South Loop as well as the entire North Branch up to Webster. It’s just not possible for CTA to provide one-seat rides from the North Side to such a dispersed landscape of employment districts... people will have to get used to the idea of making a connection, either to another train line, a bus, or some kind of BRT/LRT system that can cover all these areas at reasonable cost.

That’s unconfirmed, but I certainly hope so!

Building an ADA-compliant connection, in the fare-paid area, linking both the Inner Loop and Outer Loop platforms to the subway platform is a significant and expensive proposition. Possibly all the stairs, elevators, etc could be crammed into the median of State St, but it might actually be easier to gut the Page Brothers building and put all the vertical circulation in there (bye, Chik-Fil-A). The Outer Loop would need a second vertical circulation, but that could be placed in the front yard of CTA’s substation next to Harold Washington College. Then a pedway to link it all to the Red Line.