As someone who lives less than a mile from this, I don't really see the need. The problem with IMD is that they don't use land very efficiently, even in the core area. They're about to tear down the old Fantus Clinic for more parking, right at the intersection of the Damen and Harrison buses and a block from the Blue Line.

If the IMD comes out with a plan for dense, walkable development here, including mixed-use and residential, then I would support a new stop here. Unfortunately, they're not going to do that, so I don't support a stop.

As PKDickman noted, between Lake and 16th the entire Pink Line is surrounded by large-scale institutions that don't have a fine-grained land use and are all way too reliant on cars and parking.

If the IMD fills out the southern part of the campus and adds a couple tree thousand commuting workers, it'll make sense to add a stop at Roosevelt. The then, it's a waste of money.
It's also a fallacy to imagine a new station will drive new development.
There are 145 L stations and serious TOD growth clusters around, maybe, a dozen. The majority of them are surrounded by blight.
Transit doesn't attract development, high rents do.

Purely selfishly, if there was a Pink Line station between Roosevelt and 13th I'd get a Costco membership. I had one one year and just never went there because the only efficient way for me to get there was via car. I'm pretty sure if there were an 'L' station there I'd use it for that.

Not to get too OT, but I'm not sure how you could even shop at Costco without a car. There's a reason they haven't reformatted their stores in Chicago to a more urban template. Most things they sell are in large quantities, and incredibly bulky/heavy.

You'd have to schlep all that stuff 2-3 blocks through the back side of their parking lot, and then climb up to an elevated platform.

That's how I do the vast majority of my shopping. You might be surprised at how much I manage to haul from the Target at Division/Larrabbee to my home near Wells/Huron using a Divvy bike.

You also have the benefit of not having to deal with any hills.

Bikeshare + hills = no fun.

Anyone know of the status of the Red Line south extension?

^Utterly pointless and therefore dead, except as a cynical political maneuver.

I don't agree that it's utterly pointless, although there are better ways to improve transit in this area.

But yes, there's little or no money available for transit expansions, and currently no powerful politicians are willing to go out and crusade for another $1.5bn to spend on this.

Rahm essentially admitted that the Red Line Extension was dead when he launched the new 95th St renovation seemingly out of nowhere. That project makes no sense if the Red Line is going to get extended; the stated purpose is to improve bus transfers, but why build a hugely expensive new transfer facility over the Dan Ryan if all those buses are just gonna get rerouted to the new Red Line stations in Roseland? But with the new 95th St station, Rahm has a big flashy project to point to, one that improves the transit experience for 50,000 south side commuters.

With the new station design at 95th, I wouldn't be surprised if 95th becomes a Toronto-style station with fare-paid zones and free bus-rail transfers. At least from a financial standpoint, that would be the same as a Red Line extension since Roseland and West Pullman commuters would no longer have to pay a transfer.

Question for the group.
For a friend going from Palatine to Logan Square by train, is it better to transfer to the blue line at Jefferson Park or Irving Park? I realize Irving is closer, but which transfer is easiest?
She took a $13 Uber to Ogilvie today, trying to spare her that going back.
Thanks

Definitely, Jefferson Park transfer is easier (and relatively warmer).

I'm beginning to think that it will never actually be finished. It will be like the Golden Gate Bridge painting, when they reach the end of the project the first part they did will be worn out again. The ramp from the NB Ryan to the Congress has been closed for so long I barely remember when it was open.

Yeah, it is really dragging on. IMO they should have been more aggressive with the closures. Close Congress entirely east of the Circle and rebuild it all at once, with a fast timeline they could do that portion in 3-4 months.

Anybody taking that section of Congress is likely either A) heading to the Loop, in which case they can switch to transit, or B) heading to the North Side or South Side via Columbus/LSD, in which case they can take one of many alternate routes.

Why does the brown line go super slow between armitage and merchandise mart? The CTA slow zone map doesn't show it being a slow zone. But it must go about 5mph through that area.

I know that the tracks were fixed in the area a little over a year ago, but I believe there is an ongoing power project that may have to do with the slowness.

There are also a number of curves where speed has to be reduced around there.

Even with the curves and the power project, it does feel pretty small on the straight segments of track.

As another poster said, lots of curves and the Loop is very congested. Brown and Purple Line trains have to wait for Orange, Pink, and Green Line trains to clear the NW junction before entering/exiting the loop. I've seen trains stalled over Division and just before Chicago for over a minute waiting for signal clearance because the train before can't leave the station because there are two trains in front waiting to get into the Loop.

The pointless exercise that is "Red Line Extension planning" continues, with CTA having finally chosen to run along the western edge of the UPRR, skirting Roseland, and then for more than a mile in-between the sewage treatment plant and the sludge drying beds to wind up near 130th and the Bishop Ford Freeway.

Of course, not two thousand people live within a quarter-mile walk of all the stops combined.

https://i.imgur.com/g5YQQOK.jpg

Awesome. :yuck:

I wish the Feds would actually decide to build real transit in American cities. Then they could actually define requirements that would prevent wasting so much money on projects that exist only as political "look what I did for you" projects. Something like this, with (I'm taking your word on this) less than 2,000 people within walking distance of all the new stops combined, seems like a huge waste of money that could go toward the needed downtown circulator. Even knowing that part of the reason the CTA is doing this is to build a larger yard so that they can hold and run more trains on the Red Line once the Clark Flyover is finished, I still feel like this is mostly money better spent in dense, congested areas where transit usage is high and population and office worker density is high. Like between the West Loop and the Mag Mile corridor and/or the convention center area. I still do not understand why the subway from the West Loop to Mag Mile and McCormick isn't still on the drawing boards. It's easily the most needed and would easily be the most-used line in the city, especially if it ran from the Medical District through the West Loop and Loop to Mag Mile. Then it could eventually be extended north to roughly Diversey or Belmont, and south past McCormick to Michael Reese, tying together a bunch of areas that the City wants to grow that will need rail transit to reach their full potential.

Well, I do hope that Mr. Downtown is correct that this never happens if the proposed route in fact has only 2,000 people living within walking distance.

2 billion for 5 miles above ground with only 4 stations is INSANE. Plus this would not even serve that many people. This money should be spent elsewhere. Pink line expansion and connecting Brown line to Blue come to mind.

CBS was showing a hybrid alignment where the tracks cross over from the west to the east side of the UPRR at 109th. I assume this is because the 115th St station needs to be on the east side so it can connect to whatever development is built on the large city-owned parcel there. Also, being on the east side reduces the height of the structure that's needed to cross over the Metra Electric, it would only need to be two "levels" up instead of three.

As for population, 3400 CHA residents live in Altgeld Gardens with limited transit access, most of these units are within 1/2 mile of the station location except for the far southwest corner. With Chicago's development patterns in the outer neighborhoods, especially postwar ones, you're never gonna get large populations within 1/4 mi of station locations. Does that mean Harlem or Cumberland shouldn't exist?

I'm not saying this is a great plan, I'd prefer a new plan that improved Metra Electric service and connected it better to the CTA network. Altgeld could be served by an infill station at 130th (and, y'know, actual sidewalks on 130th so folks can walk there). However, if the Red Line plans are canceled, I worry that South Side communities will "check out" of the transit planning process, which would be a shame since any good transit plan should proceed with community support. The Red Line Extension has been promised since the 1960s (albeit in the median of the Bishop Ford) so community members feel that they need to have this.

Too bad CTA rejected an actual Metra Electric alignment for the Red Line back in 2007. The Metra Electric is the locus of density for these areas for historical reasons, so it seems like that would have the best shot at decent ridership. Plus it would allow for a direct station at Chicago State, the Pullman NHP, and other struggling commercial strips that Metra is loathe to support, and direct transfers from CTA to Metra and South Shore at Kensington.

I think dedicated express service to the airports would be a better project to fund and have a greater economic impact then a red line extension.

I didn't even think the CTA was pursuing the Red Line extension anymore. Why even bother with the huge upgrade to the 95th St station then? Wasn't the reason for the added bus lanes to increase capacity of commuters taking the bus to 95th from the far South Side?

I say take that 2 billion and invest it either on the Circle Line, the Clinton St. subway, or the Loop circulator/Monroe St subway. So many needed projects that clearly outweigh this one in importance and need. Alas, thats not the way federal funds work.

There's a difference between continuing the planning for a project (which creates contracts for consultants) and actually building a project (which requires big money). Daley, in particular, was a master of keeping the "transit planning" plates spinning for years without ever actually breaking ground on anything.

And yet all this Kabuki theater has yet to do anything to address Chicago’s transportation problems... the only new capacity we’ve gotten since 1993 when the Orange Line opened is longer platforms on a few lines and three infill stations (one of which isn’t even in Chicago).

It’s true that the system should be in good repair before we build new expansions, but the RPM project is already slated to rebuild the last, most crumbling part of the L system. CTA should be planning for what’s next after that, so we can start building the political support and lining up the funding. (Airport Express, if built by a private concessionaire, doesn’t count.)

^ Weve already done the planning. But nothing moves forward.

East west connecting West Loop to Navy Pier and Clinton Subway are badly needed. We keep planning to do it.

Now just start drawing some alignments, have the meetings, apply for funds. Get er done

Wait, why do we need new transit extensions? Our population is not growing. We have enough transit infrastructure to serve a city of 5 million. It's just that we've chosen to write off more than half the stations as irrelevant to the discussion.

If developers want to turn areas not served by transit into high-density residential or office areas, the public shouldn't subsidize that.

I'm not too jazzed about the idea of a Red Line extension. And I'm not a transit planner. But doesn't increased capacity on the south side also increase the number of trains that can run on the north side of the Red Line?

This is incorrect. Population growth and wealth growth is taking place by leaps and bounds around the central area of the city, whose transit is still rigidly set up with a wheel-and-spoke system.

There needs to be better transit options that get people around the central area. In addition, there needs to be an easier way for north-siders to get to the West Loop.

Finally, the tax revenue being created by these high density developments not located near transit are creating a windfall for the region. Nobody is gonna buy your argument that they are somehow a drain on our public dollars.

If you want to talk about public subsidies, let’s talk about Dearborn Park II. That shithole is well serviced by transit yet is way too low in density, and don’t get me started on the selfish street layout that allows almost no through streets. We are subsidizing that neighborhood, and get only more congestion in return. Shame on Dearborn Park II. I’d like you to explain your way out of that.

I won't defend the street layout. But in the absence of any sort of city planning, developers build what they think they can sell. When it was time to try developing Dearborn Park II, they didn't think they could sell any highrise or midrise units, and so they cancelled those projects—in one case, after the foundations had been poured. It's pretty hard to imagine even the most powerful American city planning department telling them they had to leave the land vacant until there was a market for highrises there.

When Sterling Bay and other players develop office space in the West Loop or around Goose Island rather than in areas already well served by transit, they're no different than a suburban homebuilder putting subdivisions in Kendall County and demanding a new freeway to serve them. At least there's a chance the drivers on that freeway will eventually pay for it in gas taxes. Transit infrastructure is never paid for by its users.

^ Yet the RPM is being funded (in part) by the so-called "transit TIF" that captures the increased value of transit-served property. The people who benefit from the transit line are paying for it.

Assuming this approach works, it seems logical that the city would seek to use it again for expansion projects, especially things like streetcars and busways that are (relatively) cheap to construct. I haven't seen a strong plan for a downtown circulator that didn't come with serious drawbacks, though. I'm surprised Sterling Bay has not studied the issue or pushed for the city to do so, the only (vague) proposal is the North Branch Transitway that was included in the city's rezoning plan.

You really are putting a lot of misplaced motives on these developers. In your own words, they will build what they can sell. Sterling Bay is building office in the West Loop and it’s selling. Why would they stop? I haven’t heard any of them turning to the city and demanding that new transit lines be built for them. But if this trend continues, at some point it would make sense to improve transportation to a booming new district for the sake of the whole city, not necessarily for the developers.

It is also a way out of line to compare this kind of development to building homes on cornfields out it Kendall County. I know you don’t actually believe that. Goose Island is just a wee bit more of an in town site than 40 miles out from the city.

Also, I see no reason not to build office in the West Loop. It's the same distance from Union Station to the East Loop as it is from Union to the West Loop. The only thing the West Loop is further from is the Red Line and that side of town most certainly needs the least economic stimulus out of any part of town. The West Loop is opening whole sections of the city up to regeneration.

Remember when Chicago was built jobs were spread throughout the neighborhoods. It was only after the collapse of industry in the city that Chicago became a city with only one real employment focal point. That's starting to change (literally reusing the buildings there were once abandoned in many cases) and that's a good thing. Hopefully the West Loop is only the start and moves like the Crate and Barrel move to Avondale start becoming the norm and we see the true potential of our industrial heritage realized with multiple neighborhoods revitalized by a smattering of large office projects in old factories. We have the bones to accommodate this, not everyone needs to commute to work, some people can move to Avondale or Belmont Cragin and walk to work at the Fields. Some people can live in the West Loop and take the Green or Pink Line.

This is a great point. Office development in the West Loop will help spread development into the Near West Side, specifically along the Green and Pink Lines, as well as the Congress Blue Line. The next logical step as the West Loop fills up is for heavy residential development to begin moving into East Garfield Park and Pilsen. Those neighborhoods are ripe for investment.

The transit connections to the West Loop are still pretty good. Easy to get to from the two big suburban train stations, and its a 10-15 minute walk from the Red or a transfer to the Blue at Jackson or Green/Pink at State & Lake.

I don't think that the West Loop will ever come close to rivaling the Loop as an office market, but it will definitely be an important ancillary/supporting office market in the greater downtown area. Chicago's high rises have long clung to the lakefront. Time to move inland!

Crains Op-Ed about Uber and Lyft, congestion and teaching ideas
 

One way to protect the CTA from Uber, Lyft: Use tech

^ Shameless self-plug? ;)

I'm not sure we can blame increased congestion downtown entirely on ride-sharing... maybe it's also partly due to all the new residents who bring their cars with them? Plenty of those folks work elsewhere and have to drive.

Yes. :)

Could be partly new residents, but if you stand at Kinzie and LaSalle at rush, a sizable percentage of vehicles are Uber/Lyft.

Well, we can't put the rideshare genie back in the bottle. If you're annoyed by all the congestion, all you can do is hope for the services to implode financially; both services have yet to turn a profit, and it's not clear that they can ever do so. If that's the case, then both services are operating on borrowed time.

If, on the other hand, the services can find a way to become sustainable, then I don't see a problem with them being part of the city's transportation mix, even a big part. On the city side, it should be coupled with increasing investment in transit, like today's announcement that the new rideshare tax will go towards track and power improvements that will allow the busiest rail lines to move more trains per hour. Rideshare can't compete with transit to the Loop during peak periods, purely because of geometry.

Likewise, I'd like to see bus lanes rolled out on a wider basis across the city. If Los Angeles can do it, there's no reason Chicago can't, we just need politicians with some "testicular fortitude", some buckets of red paint, and a state bill that allows for camera enforcement of bus lanes and bus stops.

^ Rahm is ever the politician.

Look at the timing of how he plans to invest the Rideshare dollars on the CTA.

He starts with the south side branches of the Green Line, as well as the Pink Line.

Then, upon winning reelection, he moves on to the OHare branch of the Blue as well as the Brown and Red Lines.

I believe no transportation agency in the history of the world has ever been profitable. That's the reason why the independent operators of Chicago's L lines were consolidated and now operate as public agencies. They could not turn a profit and require subsidization to exist, but their public benefit is recognized.

I'm not familiar with Uber/Lyft's business model. Honestly I don't use them often. How does it differ from a traditional cab? Is it as simple as these companies and their investors willingly incurring loses to gain a larger market share? If they continue to struggle to turn a profit, I don't see public agencies offering to buy them out when traditional private cabs have existed for decades. Are they banking on autonomous vehicles reducing costs by eliminating the drivers?

Even rich people need their transit to work ...

Have you seen a schedule of work posted? I don't necessarily know that it will go in that exact order. Also - track replacement is fairly simple, but power and signal upgrades like those on the Blue Line will take some time to engineer and build.

Yes, I did just the other day. Sorry I can’t get you a link, but it clearly shows a chronological sequence like the one I posted above.

I’m not even knocking Rahm, really. But it’s just politics—never blow an opportunity to score political points—and he is clearly a pro at it

More traction power for the Blue line could probably be brought along relatively quickly but I'd think we're talking 3-4 years for major signal upgrades to come online. They've been eyeing the former for a while now so must have a relatively good idea what they need where and how to access required Comed feeds.

I believe the Milwaukee substation (next to Frontier in Noble Square) was just upgraded, so there is increased power for the north part of the Dearborn subway at least. It's the elevated and expressway sections that are still weak.

Also just realized that the FastTracks program does not actually mention signal upgrades, which would ultimately be needed. Ideally they would go whole-hog and put in moving block signaling, they could probably get down to 2.5 or 2 minute headways at peak. Expensive, but still significantly cheaper than running a new rapid transit line to the northwest side!

Of course, with more trains, there would be an even bigger imbalance between the O'Hare branch and the Forest Park branch. You'd be running a lot of empty trains to Forest Park. Maybe CTA could bring back branching on the Blue Line during peak periods, and run certain Blue Line trains to the Douglas branch... this would also reduce the peak strain on the Loop with fewer Pink Line trains, while preserving the increased frequency that Pink Line riders enjoy during off-peak. Selfishly, I would get a direct ride to O'Hare and a direct connection to the Red Line under this plan. :cool:

restored gerber building at wilson looks p sharp

My suspicion would be that it will be more tempting to short turn more trains at UIC and maybe after IMD if another pocket track is added.

Personally, I am a big fan of getting rid of the Pink Line and bring back the 54/Cermak Blue Line. Ridership has greatly increased on the O'Hare branch and now can support an amount of service that doesn't impact frequency on the two west side branches.

Getting rid of the Pink Line has the added bonus of freeing up some space for more trains to run on the loop, namely Green or Orange. The problem with getting rid of Pink is severing the Little Village/Pilsen connection to the West Loop.

What would really help on the Blue Line is 10-car trains. I think that only Damen and California need platform extensions (maybe Western too).

^ I can't vouch for the Congress branch, but the existing Pink Line stations can only handle 8 cars. They were built for 8-car Blue Line trains, but then CTA created the Pink Line and cut the trains down to only 4 cars.

On the whole, I think the Pink Line was a good idea and at least partially helped address the issue of Fulton Market feeling like a backwater. Suddenly Fulton Market became just one stop on a line connecting the Loop, Ogilvie, the Medical District, and Pilsen. Plus, the demographics of Pink Line riders tend to be a little less scary to privileged North Siders than the demographics of Green Line riders, so suddenly taking a train to Morgan/Lake became more appealing... Also, the creation of the Pink Line disentangled the Douglas Branch from the disruptions that always seem to plague the Blue Line, so that was a plus.

The downside is that the Loop has never had good connections to the downtown subways, since the original plan was to move all rail lines underground and tear down the Loop. Moving Douglas branch trains onto the Loop means that it has very poor connections to the city's two busiest rail lines (Red and Blue), with only one connection at Clark/Lake to the Blue Line and zero connections to the Red Line. Ideally there would be connections every time two train lines crossed each other, certainly at State/Lake but also at State/Van Buren and Dearborn/Van Buren, and maybe even at Paulina/290. If CTA is going to commit to the Loop + State/Dearborn Subway layout for the next century, then it needs to build these connections. The State/Lake one may even be in the works, depending on the plans for renovation of that station.

I'd prefer the Pink Line stay as-is, but I'd rather it be combined with the Orange Line before having it revert back to the Blue Line. The counter-clockwise Loop Stations are grossly underutilized during the PM rush until you hit the east side of the Loop. Merging the Pink and Orange Lines still gives riders the opportunity to access the opposite side of the Loop via the Green Line. The ever elusive Clinton / Larrabee subway would be a great asset these days. Not sure why extending the Red Line to 130th St. is a higher priority project when there are thousands of North Side L riders that have to make their way west from either Clark / Lake, State / Lake, or Washington / Wells.