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-   -   NEW YORK | Moynihan Station / MSG Renovation (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum//showthread.php?t=185034)

Obey Mar 2, 2011 2:42 AM

Oh, I see now. Okay.

patriotizzy Mar 2, 2011 7:22 AM

Make this happen NAO!

JACKinBeantown Mar 2, 2011 1:37 PM

I'd love to see something like that happen. But considering that this is New York and space is at a premium, first you'd have to find a replacement site for Madison Square Garden (maybe in Hudson Yards over the rails). Just a guess on my part, but you'd also probably need to incorporate office space above the great hall, just as MSG is above that location now. It could be done... I'm not an engineer, but consider a vaulted ceiling to support a building above this space while allowing for plenty of light to come in, like the great cathedrals of Europe.

NYguy Mar 2, 2011 3:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JACKinNYC (Post 5184141)
I'd love to see something like that happen. But considering that this is New York and space is at a premium, first you'd have to find a replacement site for Madison Square Garden (maybe in Hudson Yards over the rails).

Bloomberg would sink the entire west side into the Hudson before letting Cablevision move the Garden to the railyards (remember the Cablevision/Stadium wars). It's not an option anyway, as the railyards has its own site plan and zoning in place. What was and still could be possible (though still not likely) was the move to Farley.

Obey Mar 2, 2011 9:34 PM

Finding a new spot for the stadium, I don't think would be such a difficult job, it's more demolishing and building a new stadium

NYguy Mar 3, 2011 6:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obey (Post 5184758)
Finding a new spot for the stadium, I don't think would be such a difficult job, it's more demolishing and building a new stadium

In Manhattan, it would be beyond difficult. There are no open spaces for an arena to be built in Manhattan, no sights to even consider. Even if there were, Cablevision would be foolish to move the arena away from the abundance of public transportation the arena now has.

Obey Mar 3, 2011 12:09 PM

^^^ Oh yes, everywhere besides Manhattan I meant.

NYguy Mar 3, 2011 5:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obey (Post 5185646)
^^^ Oh yes, everywhere besides Manhattan I meant.

James Dolan would have you shipped to the moon for even suggesting that...:sly:

They've been enjoying their monopoly in the City, and after this year, it will just be Manhattan.

aquablue Mar 3, 2011 7:49 PM

Are you sure there are no old buildings nearby that could be demolished to house an arena + tower above? I can't believe it. There are plenty of large low rise structures on the west side near Penn Station.

ardecila Mar 3, 2011 8:24 PM

^^ An arena is wide enough that it can't fit into one block. There would have to be a street closure, which complicates things massively.

Obey Mar 3, 2011 9:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 5185968)
James Dolan would have you shipped to the moon for even suggesting that...:sly:

They've been enjoying their monopoly in the City, and after this year, it will just be Manhattan.

I know, I personally don't think its going to happen. It was just theoretical

scalziand Mar 4, 2011 12:56 AM

One possibility that would have a minimum of disruption would be to have the MSG and Brookfield do a sight swap. MSG gets to stay near Penn station, and Brookfield gets oodles of air rights. New Yorkers get a masterpiece station. Win-win for everyone.

NYguy Mar 4, 2011 3:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scalziand (Post 5186578)
One possibility that would have a minimum of disruption would be to have the MSG and Brookfield do a sight swap.
MSG gets to stay near Penn station, and Brookfield gets oodles of air rights. New Yorkers get a masterpiece station. Win-win for everyone.


Ironically, the Brookfield site was potentially home for NBA headquarters, but that site is zoned for over 5 msf, making a swap unfeasible.
What you would have is a replay of the current MSG blocking unused development rights.


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/77418257/original.jpg


Here's a look at what a new Farley/Moynihan inside the Farley would look like...

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/93450455/original.jpg



http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/93825631/original.jpg



http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/86828840/original.jpg



http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/86828837/original.jpg

Suffice Mar 7, 2011 9:25 AM

@ NY guy

That proposal would take care of a lot of the concerns that people have, aesthetic and practical ones.

But I was wondering what New Yorkers thought about having the main Basketball franchise of the city call a former post office their home? I just think the Knicks have a big more swag than that...

ardecila Mar 7, 2011 10:28 AM

^^ I don't see why a post office is any less swag-tastic than an ugly modernist toilet bowl. If there's any swag to be had in the architecture, it's in the clubhouse, not the facade.

Does anybody actually think MSG is attractive? Obviously the interior's been remodeled numerous times, but the exterior is still pretty awful, and it's crowded out by all the Penn Station entrances. MSG is an outdated inefficient arena sitting on top of an outdated, inefficient rail station. It's really a lose-lose and any option that doesn't move MSG elsewhere will result in a sub-par station. The tunnels are laid out such that the platforms are more or less centered between 8th and 7th, although some of them go a bit further west - that's why the West End Concourse is possible.

The solution shown in NYguy's renderings is perfect - a dedicated headhouse on each side of 8th Avenue, with MSG in the west part of Farley (where it's not above platforms) and a reclad/renovated Two Penn Plaza. I think the architecture could use some work, but the concept is exactly right for New York.

One thing I've never heard discussed is where the postal functions would go. Obviously, that's an important service that needs to remain somewhere in the city.

JSsocal Mar 7, 2011 3:30 PM

As I recall there is a big post office or dispatch or something just south of the rail yards. I'm not sure what it is but its almost 2 city blocks and there are postal service trucks and loading docks there, so I assume they're fine.

Obey Mar 7, 2011 8:06 PM

The one with all the towers is absolutely beautiful.

JACKinBeantown Mar 7, 2011 9:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suffice (Post 5190063)
@ NY guy

That proposal would take care of a lot of the concerns that people have, aesthetic and practical ones.

But I was wondering what New Yorkers thought about having the main Basketball franchise of the city call a former post office their home? I just think the Knicks have a big more swag than that...

Keep in mind that Knicks is short for Knickerbockers... a sort of men's capri pants back in the early 1900s.

Suffice Mar 8, 2011 8:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JACKinNYC (Post 5190613)
Keep in mind that Knicks is short for Knickerbockers... a sort of men's capri pants back in the early 1900s.

Haha, word!

Ok, I'm almost convinced. How bout moving the garden two blocks west - between 10th and 11th over the rail yards. It would replace a dead block and it would be right next to the high line. Picture a retrofuturistic red brick, brass, and oxydated bronze arena complex sitting adjacent to the High line with all the galleries and alternative nightlife in the area. Could make for a pretty sick revitalization kick-start for the Hudson Yards

NYguy Mar 8, 2011 2:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSsocal (Post 5190171)
As I recall there is a big post office or dispatch or something just south of the rail yards. I'm not sure what it is but its almost 2 city blocks and there are postal service trucks and loading docks there, so I assume they're fine.

You're talking about the Morgan facility, which is where most of the postal work is done (the two are connected by a tunnel). The only current postal activity at the Farley building is the retail service, fronting 8th Avenue.



Quote:

Originally Posted by JACKinNYC (Post 5190613)
Keep in mind that Knicks is short for Knickerbockers... a sort of men's capri pants back in the early 1900s.

Also an alternative name for New Yorkers, who were originally Dutch (and wore such things)


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