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-   -   CHICAGO | The 78 Site (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum//showthread.php?t=233449)

Mr Downtown Apr 11, 2019 3:39 AM

Careful with that drooling. No buildings have even been sketched yet. And what economic forces could possibly ever justify a supertall in this location?

jpIllInoIs Apr 11, 2019 3:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lakeshoredrive (Post 8536450)
is it possible for a supertall to be built in the 78? it would definitely balance the skyline. i am not sure what the zoning is for this site.

Thats adorable :haha:

k1052 Apr 11, 2019 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 8535908)
Not just that, there are significant differences between the two projects that have been discussed in this thread previously.

The 78 was always going to have a big mixed-use development on it, back in the Rezko days, back with Goldberg's master plan for River City in the 1970s, and even in the 1920s when the river was being straightened this site was supposed to be an extension of downtown. The 78 is just the culmination of something decades in the making. Even Dearborn Park residents have always known that something big would eventually go here once the planets aligned.

Also, the 78's site is "out of sight, out of mind" - to Dearborn Parkers, Chinatown residents, and South Loop residents, this site exists on the other side of big infrastructural walls. It's not part of their neighborhoods.

Finally, and this is something that only matters to urban planners and us forumers: The 78 is just a better-planned development. It will have a proper connective street grid, a CTA subway station and probably water taxis and new bus routes to link it into downtown, which is directly adjacent (only a mile to Union Station). Given the design and location, it could actually function as a true transit-oriented neighborhood, so it will not cause the traffic armageddon that Lincoln Yards will.

The isolated nature of the site certainly plays a role but most of its neighbors just aren't prone to kicking up the noise that say Lincoln Park does. DP residents don't seem to really care as long as their little suburban slice of heaven isn't touched (see the need to shift the proposed Red Line head house). Certainly not the case at all for LP/Bucktown/WP residents.

The arguments for less density at LY due to street congestion aren't particularly persuasive to me when that's largely a result of a near total failure on our part to manage capacity. Lots of the city is developing even in places without optimal rail connections. We need to deal with reallocating the surface street resources we have rather than simply building to a standard that people in SOVs can tolerate. Americans will only actually do something when a situation is pushed well beyond tolerability (congestion pricing in NYC for example). Also as I already visit this pocket of the city at least a few times a week my opinion is of someone directly impacted.

BonoboZill4 Apr 12, 2019 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 8536539)
Careful with that drooling. No buildings have even been sketched yet. And what economic forces could possibly ever justify a supertall in this location?

30 years ago Vista would have been laughed out of the room at LSE, because it too had no economic forces that would encourage someone to sell million dollar condos in that part of town... I'm not gonna argue it's likely, but it's 100% possible by 2045 that we are looking at that sort of situation...

Suiram Apr 17, 2019 6:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonoboZill4 (Post 8537536)
30 years ago Vista would have been laughed out of the room at LSE, because it too had no economic forces that would encourage someone to sell million dollar condos in that part of town... I'm not gonna argue it's likely, but it's 100% possible by 2045 that we are looking at that sort of situation...

Exactly. Related will work to get a generous allotment of FAR / units into their PD and start building tower by tower over the next decades. Most likely as the buildings get built there will be some leftover and leave them flexibility towards the end to decide what makes sense for their final plots. Keep in mind it will most likely be new people deciding since those in charge today will be dead or at least retired.

Maybe buildings keep getting taller. Maybe DP gets acquired for redevelopment. Nobody knows but I am sure Related is angling to give themselves flexibility

Mr Downtown Apr 17, 2019 9:56 PM

The PD has already been approved, and building height is capped at 950 ft. But as we saw at Central Station, height limits can easily be waived.

The laws of economics are not so easily waived.

r18tdi Apr 18, 2019 12:33 AM

Despite City Approval, South Loop’s ‘The 78’ Mega-Project A Work In Progress As Neighbors Sound Off
https://blockclubchicago.org/2019/04...ors-sound-off/

A weak retroactive attempt at a community-driven development process? :shrug:

Jim in Chicago Apr 18, 2019 2:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r18tdi (Post 8544190)
Despite City Approval, South Loop’s ‘The 78’ Mega-Project A Work In Progress As Neighbors Sound Off
https://blockclubchicago.org/2019/04...ors-sound-off/

A weak retroactive attempt at a community-driven development process? :shrug:

I have no doubt that there are many issues that should be resolved, but Neighborhood displacement? Um, there is no neighborhood there - the site is walled off and a wasteland. Who's being displaced?

LouisVanDerWright Apr 18, 2019 2:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim in Chicago (Post 8544645)
I have no doubt that there are many issues that should be resolved, but Neighborhood displacement? Um, there is no neighborhood there - the site is walled off and a wasteland. Who's being displaced?

Lol don't dispute the narrative, we gotta push the narrative at all times!

Seriously though, this site is like a Mile from anywhere that isn't already condo towers full of upper middle class white people. These DSA types are getting truly rediculous...

Randomguy34 Apr 18, 2019 2:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright (Post 8544688)
Lol don't dispute the narrative, we gotta push the narrative at all times!

Seriously though, this site is like a Mile from anywhere that isn't already condo towers full of upper middle class white people. These DSA types are getting truly rediculous...

Chinatown is two blocks away

BVictor1 Apr 18, 2019 3:10 PM

The amendment that would have approved the CTA station for the 78 has been deferred. Being in the 25th Ward and not the 3rd, there's a new alderman.

LouisVanDerWright Apr 18, 2019 3:19 PM

^^^ Great so pinko is probably going to screw up the train station by trying to use it to force the developers to add "affordable housing".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randomguy34 (Post 8544692)
Chinatown is two blocks away

I suppose, but Chinatown is an entity unto itself and I don't see that community ever being infiltrated by "gentrifiers". There was just an article the other day about how there are basically no English language apartment listings in that entire area.

BVictor1 Apr 18, 2019 3:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright (Post 8544740)
^^^ Great so pinko is probably going to screw up the train station by trying to use it to force the developers to add "affordable housing".



I suppose, but Chinatown is an entity unto itself and I don't see that community ever being infiltrated by "gentrifiers". There was just an article the other day about how there are basically no English language apartment listings in that entire area.

Probably... He's sitting to the right of me at plan commission right now...

I have no problem with more affordable housing, but just add it on top of the density that already been approved. If the new alderman wants 1,000 affordable units, FINE! just add that 1,000 to the 10,000 units already approved.

the urban politician Apr 18, 2019 3:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BVictor1 (Post 8544750)
Probably... He's sitting to the right of me at plan commission right now...

^ Tap him on the shoulder and say "You better damn well not trip up the CTA Red Line station!"

Seriously, we need to END Aldermanic prerogative

BVictor1 Apr 18, 2019 3:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 8544762)
^ Tap him on the shoulder and say "You better damn well not trip up the CTA Red Line station!"

Seriously, we need to END Aldermanic prerogative

He's not alderman yet. It may be Related wanting to play nice.

r18tdi Apr 18, 2019 4:14 PM

Is Related deferring the revised plan for 1061 Van Buren too? That's also in the 25th Ward.

BVictor1 Apr 18, 2019 5:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r18tdi (Post 8544838)
Is Related deferring the revised plan for 1061 Van Buren too? That's also in the 25th Ward.

Yes...

the urban politician Apr 18, 2019 5:35 PM

^ You've gotta be kidding me.

None. Of. This. Is. Necessary

Jim in Chicago Apr 19, 2019 3:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randomguy34 (Post 8544692)
Chinatown is two blocks away

And no one in Chinatown is being displaced - except, I guess, for the couple buildings already removed for the Wells St. expansion.

Handro Apr 19, 2019 3:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim in Chicago (Post 8546104)
And no one in Chinatown is being displaced - except, I guess, for the couple buildings already removed for the Wells St. expansion.

Not to mention Chinatown property is owned by Chinese people, and any renters are Chinese specifically rented to because they Chinese. If anything, rising property values would be great for the people in that neighborhood. Anyone raising the prospect of "gentrification" in Chinatown is either lying or oblivious.


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