Well, that sure seems like a stupid attitude to take...

If you are as committed to bringing rail transit to the south lakefront as you claim (and I believe you are), I would think you'd be all for any supporters you can get (particularly those with political clout). Who cares if the plan is slightly different than yours or if you don't get full attribution???

As someone who rode the MED down to 83rd yesterday (and has taken it to/from Hyde Park for years), I find it baffling and somewhat shameful to see how underutilized that infrastructure is. Bronzeville, Hyde Park, South Shore, etc. are great neighborhoods, and better transit would definitely be a HUGE asset. But infighting like this among supporters is likely to doom the project to ultimate failure.

You are right Clark, it is! So if I were to call SOUL tomorrow for assistance, do I speculate they might decide to help me?? I think I'd get my feelings hurt.

Want to get involved Clark -- YOU Clark (or somebody) call SOUL this week, ask them what they think about the current situation regarding the MED, and plans for it's future (and would they now support working together to support the Gray Line?) Remember the Lucas Museum, and Obama Library have now been thrown into the mix: http://trib.in/1tfcRvf

Their "plan" is not "slightly different" -- they want to fit DC-3 rotary piston engines into a 747's turbofan jet nacelles -- and have it fly (and they simply just don't understand that).

I can explain it all QUITE CLEARLY; but it will take about an hour, let me know when to start!

Reg the Gray Line proposal. Have you figured out how much additional rolling stock would be needed in order to run the headways you propose and support the ridership you expect? Is that included in the cost? (I see $200 million and $300 million on your website).

Another comment/question. Seems it would be a cinch to add fare gates for the stations on the IC mainline embankment or along the lakefront, but more difficult for the surface stations on the Blue Island and South Chicago branches, particularly the stations in the median of a road. Los Angeles is in the process of adding turnstiles to many of their stations, but basically skipped the surface stations, for now at least.

I suppose something similar to the outer ends of the Brown and Pink lines is possible-but how much do you figure this would cost per station? There are quite a few. Would this even be possible without being "Grandfathered" like the legacy CTA lines?

The Rolling stock is already bought, paid for, and under construction by Nippon-Sharyo in the Metra Highliner II configuration (note the fast Rapid-Transit type acceleration): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqFr...eature=related The Gray Line would use approx. 60-70 cars (of the 160 total order), but modified (at a significantly reduced construction cost) for a Rapid-Transit type service: http://www.grayline.20m.com/photo3.html

If you visit any of the surface stations, you can see that there is plenty of room for (Ventra) TVM's and Turnstyles. Each station would need probably 2 TVM's, 2 or 3 Turnstyles, and 1 ADA Entry; I would guess $1-2M each for most stations X 40 Stations (of course some big/busy stations would require more)

This brings up another point, off-train fare collection is ESSENTIAL for the project to work at all -- without it each train running every 10 minutes would require at least a 3-man (or more) train crew, such astronomically high labor costs would make the operation fiscally impossible right from the outset.

SOUL made/makes no recommendations on the fare collection issue, which was left by them in the hands of the Agencies ("Alien vs Predator") -- and ended up with them getting nothing because if it (and partially dragging the Gray Line down with them by association).

So I was walking down Clark and turning left to go down Roscoe to the sushi place Rollapalooza (my favorite, seriously try it) and noticed that the big restaurant on the corner was shut down with a sign in the window stating something like "CLOSED EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY DUE TO CTA IMMINENT DOMAIN". I looked the place up when I got home and it had been Big Cheese Poutine (no idea). This would be the block they wanted to tear down to correct that little jog the red/puple line does near there.

I believe the other stores on that block were all open, and I know O'Hagans or whatever it is was still open.

I was walking again yesterday and noticed that the convenience store on the corner of Newport and Sheffield was closed down for business with a sign in the window saying so. Then I saw that Nisei Lounge next door was also closed, and then that National (use to be Yard) nextdoor to that was also shut down. They all had for rent signs in th window.

I was afraid this was all due to the CTA, but then realized that the CTA work wasnt' gonig to go north of Newport. No idea why so many businesses are going out of business right there all at once. I wasn't sure if I missed anything else that was shut down....

As far as I heard there is no current imminent domain going on with CTA. Wondering if they put that there as an excuse for going out of business, or maybe the owner found a good deal and jumped at it since he knows that location might get iffy soon with potential CTA projects.

I looked all these businesses up online and there's nothing about them being closed, most had yelp reviews and activity within the past few weeks. Seems so sudden.

You only have to look at the MTA to see what would happen...

This. I don't think CTA has started eminent domain proceedings yet, they don't have the funding (remember, under eminent domain the government still has to pay "fair market value").

Probably those restaurants were leasing and the landlord decided not to renew their leases due to the uncertainty of the CTA project. He probably posted those signs out of spite.

My guess is that the rent was going up at the north of Newport places and all those business either couldn't or didn't want to afford it. There is going to be a dearth of commercial space in Wrigleyville once the CTA tears down a few blocks and then the coming development south of Wrigley that will tear out a large section of Clark. The landlord at the building north of Newport knows this and is probably looking for long term leases that will reflect that. Just a guess.

The poutine place is a chain from Canada and had only been open like four months. They reportedly already have a new space lined up.

That's what I had figured. I thought it was weird when I was walking along and thought "oh wow, that place went out of business....oh wow, that one did too, and that one next to it as well, and also the next....what the hell is going on here???".

They're all in different buildings though, not sure if they would have the same owners.

I don't want to say just "Anything", but the present situation is childish, ridiculous and intolerable -- so something MUST be done!

The past
 

Developments past -- signs of the old El branches.

http://forgottenchicago.com/features/remnants-of-the-l/

Cermak Green Line Station 7/29

http://i58.tinypic.com/2illmcn.jpg
twitter/ChicagoDrives

^The semicircle "ribs" of the station enclosure are being assembled in that lot at lower right. I assume they'll close the Green Line one weekend pretty soon and use a bigass crane to lift them into place above the tracks.

Remnants of the “L” | Forgotten Chicago
 

Cermak-McCormick Place Station 8/19
 

http://images2.snapfish.com/23232323...A8%3C239ot1lsi

http://images2.snapfish.com/23232323...%3A93239ot1lsi

http://images2.snapfish.com/23232323...%3A94239ot1lsi

http://images2.snapfish.com/23232323...66938239ot1lsi

http://images2.snapfish.com/23232323...66939239ot1lsi

^ The bus passing by on that last picture makes for a really cool image.

Thanks for the photo updates!

It's interesting how they are casting a whole new concrete viaduct around the steel... Must be a tricky staging.

Oh wow, is that really what they are doing? That is bizarre. So they are just incorporating the old "L" structure rather than building new?

No they are replacing the steel viaduct with concrete in the section under the station tube, but they have to somehow swap out the old steel for the new concrete while trains keep running.

Probably shut it down for a weekend, tear out the old steel - and cast the new structure.

Split the Blue Line
 

file:///Users/AndrewWuehler/Desktop/...25.31%20PM.pnghttp://file:///Users/AndrewWuehler/D...25.31%20PM.png

This was just an idea I had. Check the Link to see the Map

The Blue Line O'hare Branch has continuously been gaining ridership, while the Forest Park Branch ridership has declined significantly over the years. And I think my plan could maximize profit for the CTA, by running more trains on the O'hare Branch and less on the Forest Park Branch. The CTA has already shown its dismay with the West Side Branch by running some trains from O'hare only to UIC-Halsted.

And to terminate the two different routes the Forest Park Branch could go to Clark/Lake to cover the Loop. But as for the O'hare Branch I thought maybe it could go around the LaSalle stop and take a right turn north to Union Station.

This would FINALLY connect Ogilvie and Union stations to the Loop and to the 'L' (at least not where you have to walk two blocks).

Now I know the CTA doesn't have the money for this kind of project, but I would love to see them embrace new ideas.

I would love feedback. Criticism? Compliments?

Upload the image to http://imgur.com and paste the url it provides.

Please used on Photobucket.com and you have to upload the pictures. You have to do copy & paste from entire website.

Since you don't know how to post images, your link doesn't work but based on your description I'm guessing you're proposing some sort of subway loop. Which has been proposed before and would possibly (probably?) be part of a Clinton Street Subway, which has been proposed in a number of forms, most recently as part of the West Loop Transportation Center. I think most people agree it would be a good thing.

Another possibility would be to route some Blue Line trains through the Blue/Red connector under Block 37 to Midway. The number of needed Orange Line trains plus the number of needed Forest Park trains is probably close to the number of needed O'Hare trains, so it would actually be pretty useful at balancing that, plus provide 1-seat rides between the airports at just over an hour of travel time, PLUS free up elevated Loop slots during rush hour. It would somewhat complicate Red Line scheduling, but given that the number of Red Line trains is already limited by the junction at Clark/School in Lakeview, that's probably not really a major issue. And that could be done for just the cost of finishing the Blue/Red connector, which I think would mostly just include breaking up the platforms under Dearborn and State Streets so that trains can cross, much less that creating a new subway.

They would might also need to make southbound connecter from the Red line to the Orange line because otherwise theyd have to go through 17th St junction which is near capacity.

There wouldn't be any more trains going through that junction than there are today. Just that Orange line trains would switch to the State St Subway
at the 13th street portal instead of going to the Loop.

Rather than there, the capacity crunch would seem to question would seem to be the State St Subway between Block 37 and Harrison Junction. Can it handle all red line trains plus all orange line trains? If the red line is 20tph peak, while the Orange is what, 8? That makes 28 tph. Which seems like it would be pushing the limits. But if the red line is 15tph peak while the Orange is 8, then that's 23tph which should be possible.

Ok, I assumed in this scenario that the O'hare-Midway line would keep the same frequency as the Blue line.

The problem is, UIC-Halsted, Racine, Medical Center, and Western really need the same train frequency as the O'Hare Branch. I think it is more logical to just move the holding track a few stops westward. Otherwise you are cutting service to a rapidly developing part of the West Side.

This was the main advantage of the pre-Pink Line arrangement where the Blue Line split.

Split the Blue Line Part 2
 

Thanks wierdaaron for the link.

Here the new link for my drawing of the "Split Blue Line"

http://imgur.com/toRoc1q

P.S.
Notice the Dark blue for the West Side Branch and the Light Blue for O'hare.

No, it would get some fraction of the O'Hare branch, with Forest Park branch receiving the other fraction.

Are you sure? I don't think gonna changes. I think they will kept the blue lines and they won't split the blue lines.

I know new elevated structures downtown are probably non starters given the emerging demographics of the area, but I always thought the van Buren El should run all the way west to Paulina and junction with the connector and blue line.


Also a new El would be constructed on Canal between Lake and Van Buren, essentially creating a larger Loop for circulating passengers between the west loop train stations and the growing west loop office population .

orulz, recently you asked me these questions -- and I posted this response: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...ostcount=11705

Do you (or anybody/everybody) have any comments on my statements there?

btw: Now the probable new Pullman District National Park adds to the locations that could be diectly served by the Gray Line: http://chicagodefender.com/2014/08/2...porter-museum/

Seems to me that two new three-track stub-end subway terminals wouldn't be much cheaper than a full Clinton Street subway (WLTC). The WLTC accomplishes the same thing, puts Ogilvie station on the line, and gives Metra commuters a one-seat ride to Dearborn Street.

What the hell? The Circle name was iconic and descriptive - the ramps literally form a circle in a "Catherine wheel" configuration. Circle connotes a single center point, the navel of the Burnham Plan and the heart of the expressway system.

I do not understand why we need this renaming when other things around town have already been named for Byrne (the Water Tower Plaza)... As usual, renamings are just a way to score free political points. Quinn's remarks at the press conference show that he is trying to appeal to women and LGBT voters...

Byrne, along with J.Thompson, killed the Crosstown exp. this is very appropriate to name the resulting gridlock after Byrne.

They got it right, for once!

"Am I sure?"

What kind of dumb question is that, since we're all talking about imaginary plans anyway, so if I'm talking about my own imaginary plan in that post of course I'm sure.

You beat me to it. Plus, who the heck would want to put their name on a traffic jam? By some measures this is the most congestion-causing interchange in the country. If you're going to name something that's a universal source of anger, maybe John Dillinger Interchange would have been a better place to start.

IIT station - Aug 22
 

They should call it the "Are you banging on your steering wheel yet?" Interchange

IIT station?

New station on the Green line - photos are from Cermak - thought it was the cool new tubular station for IIT - I see now it is called the Cermak/McCormick place station.

Meh, let them "change" the name. Generations of Chicagoans have been calling it the Circle Interchange, and some renaming ceremony won't change a thing.

Yes, just like you take the Northwest Tollway to go shop at Woodfield, or if you want to stay closer to home, go to the vertical mall at 900 North Pine.

Renamings are actually as old as Chicago itself, and usually they are done to score cheap political points even if they screw up the legibility of the city. What gets me is that renamings now are always done using full names and not last names - I don't have the attention span to get off the Rock Island at the 35th St/Lovana S. "Lou" Jones/Bronzeville station. Seriously, why not just call it Jones? I don't have a problem with arbitrary names as long as they're short and memorable.

Yes -- And it is right across the street from McCormick Place (King Drive is 400 East): http://bit.ly/1x13Iwd

Ok I thought they were doing something to the 35th Street Station that I was unaware of. :haha:

Sarcasm? Well, to the average well bodied person it can't be more that a 5 minute walk

In February, at 5 below zero, with kids in tow (or elderly, or disabled)??