There's an image of one of those caisson-tube-or-not-a-caisson-tube tubes that we were talking about a couple months ago. Does the verdict still stand that they are indeed caisson tubes for supporting the viaducts? Is this the lowest ratio ever of above-ground structure height to caisson depth in our city...?

The Initial System of Subways included that all stations be designed to accomodate 6 car trains of three compartment cars, each (articulated) compartment car being 88 ft in length. That works out to 528 ft, enough for 11 cars of 48 ft. length that the CTA uses.

So yes, 10 car trains will fit.

David Harrison

I would like to add that I was told by a CTA official at one of the RPM meetings on the northside earlier this year that once RPM was complete, all Red Line platforms would be able to accommodate 10 car trains.

Along those lines, what would it take to run longer *cars* on the Red Line?

I asked that awhile ago... Depends on what you mean by "longer". Supposedly the State and Division subways were designed to accommodate 75' cars like New York's BMT, but later subways (Kimball, Howard-Dan Ryan) were designed with tighter curves and smaller clearances. I suppose after the Sheridan curve is straightened, CTA could run longer cars on a Howard-Midway route or something.

Really, I think it would be better to stick with the existing 48' car length but do articulated connections between cars. You get most of the capacity benefits of longer cars but without the expensive retrofits to tracks and tunnels. The only downside is that CTA would not get the greater stability at high speed which comes from a longer/wider wheelbase.

This comes up every so often, especially on railfan sites. The CTA is not going to run longer cars. Longer cars would never get around the tight curves built all over the system. The CTA can run LONGER TRAINS. All of the subway stations can accomodate a ten car TRAIN. Many of the expressway stations can accomodate ten car TRAINS. Many of the newer stations have space left to lengthen platforms so that ten car TRAINS can operate.

The reasons why the CTA will keep the 48 ft. length it uses is for compatibility. They are able to adjust their car fleet and transfer cars from one line to another without limitation. That ability is VERY desirable.

Finally, the subways were designed in the 1930s and yes, the curves were laid out to accomodate a 60 ft car. The stations were also laid out to accomodate a wider floor. The temporary extensions along the platform edges have beendestroyed, especially when they put the tactile strip in along the platform edge. Therefore today's and all future cars will have the 8 ft 8 in floor.

If CTA trackwork is ever improved, our trains can operate up to 70 MPH.

Please don't ask about running left-handed.

David Harrison

Ok, I won't, but what about returning the Loop to running both the inner and outer track in the same direction as was once done? ;-)

That would adversely effect routes that are through-routed on the Loop like the Green line, the Brown-Orange so it ain't gonna happen.

Why would you want something like that?

David H.

I didn't see the map at first. At a time both the Oak Park 'L' (Lake Street) and the Northwestern ran left handed after they left the Loop. That's the reasons for the crossovers after Tower 18 (Lake/Wells) Good find.

David H.

As far as I now nothing has happened yet.

Yes and probably. I'll try and get a picture of one going into the ground if I can. My guess is the deep caissons will be needed when the current tracks and supports are removed. Digging out the current bridge supports would lessen the integrity of any shallow supported bridge, especially once the new western track becomes operational. Currently temporary cement supports are reinforcing the older spans.

Quick question that I'm sure has been asked multiple times.

Why isn't there a station by the United Center on the Pink Line at Madison Street? Is it a money issue or a usage issue or something?

I know there's plenty of buses running on Madison and there's a bus on Damen - but I always found that odd that you had that giant stretch from Ashland & Lake to Polk going right past the arena. Is the Medical Center station good enough to serve it as far as rail?

Just wondering.

Essentially, CTA doesn't want to pay for a station that's only used for sporting events. I tend to agree with them - an arena that deliberately surrounded itself with parking is a poor candidate for transit service. At Sox-35th, only a small fraction of Sox fans arrive by transit - far less than the highly-urbanized Wrigley Field.

I've heard conflicting reports - CTA recently said it preferred a Damen Green Line stop to a Madison Pink Line stop, because the Damen stop is a better overall addition to the transit network (people live nearby and there is a bus transfer) but now that the Reinsdorfs are planning to develop retail to the east, the Madison Pink Line may come back into consideration.

This is just a pipe dream, but if I owned the stadium I'd work the naming rights angle heavily. United's deal expires in 2014 and the yearly fee they pay to the owners is very low for a large-market stadium hosting two competitive teams. The owners, the sponsor (possibly not United after 2014) and CTA could work out a 3-way deal to get the rail station built and themed with ads, similar to the Apple deal at North/Clybourn. Construction for the station should be quick and cheap since Pink Line trains have an alternate route to the Loop and can be easily rerouted.

Well, that's exactly what the Nets did. They're moving to the new Barclays Center in downtown Brooklyn and they purchased naming rights for the nearby station which serves I think 9 subways line and a commuter rail terminal - "Atlantic Avenue - Barclays Center".

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8146/7...2f223450_n.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7094/7...d2900b0a_z.jpg

Who knows, with the new eastern entertainment complex planned for the UC perhaps a new station will get done. I'm skeptical most of all because I think that the JM and the Wirtzs like the income from charging people to park their cars around the stadium to want to incoperate a station into their plans.

CHGO SUN-TIMES - Metra unveils new train tracker system
 

BY TINA SFONDELES Transportation Reporter
tsfondeles@suntimes.com
June 28, 2012 12:52PM

Metra riders will get precise arrival and departure times via a new train tracker system that will use GPS technology, the transit agency announced Thursday.

The Rail-Time Tracker feature on Metra’s website and mobile website will give riders the status of trains arriving at every station on the Metra system.

It shows the scheduled departure times of those trains in one column, and whether the trains are on time or running late. If trains are running late, riders will know the estimated arrival time.

The new system is linked to Metra’s GPS tracking system, which uses satellites to plot the exact locations of all trains in the system and can record precisely when a train arrives at and leave each station.

Metra already uses the GPS system to warn riders when trains are significantly delayed and to compile on-time performance reports.

The new tracker makes the real-time data available to riders, the agency said.

More at the Sun-Times website.

Thinking further, there might be another ulterior motive here... I noticed that both Jackson and Rush were present at the official announcement of the 95th project.

Could the new 95th be a sop to Jackson and Rush in order to make them quietly drop their opposition to the Englewood Flyover? Metra might not be very adept at bidding large projects in disadvantaged areas, but CTA has a far larger minority presence in its management and is presumably far better at awarding contracts to minority businesses. The 95th project has a higher value than the Flyover and if it's fast-tracked, it can start construction by next year.

Bobby Rush:
The city and CTA don't directly benefit from the Flyover, but it will eliminate some severe rail congestion that affects Amtrak service and crimps NS (which is apparently willing to invest heavily inside city limits). That is, there was plenty of incentive for Rahm to broker a deal.

Are you referring to the new freight railyard that was proposed somewhere near Garfield, along the line that runs between the Dan Ryan and Halsted (I can't remember whether that story involved NS)?

Also, as to your theory, the $240m price tag (much higher than the $140m announced at first) sure could look like a lot of political candy in the eyes of those congressmen, and in any event certainly does represent a lot of jobs and improvement in QoL to transit users in that area.

CTA Press Release:

The fact that the new cars are going in along the Pink and Green Lines is kind of funny, especially since the new seating arrangement was sold as a way to increase capacity on the Brown and Red lines (or, to a lesser extent, ancient equipment on the Blue)—I understand that specialized maintenance equipment is an issue, but is the CTA going to eventually have some kind of grand shuffle or are they just going to replace a large chunk of their fleet?

I thought they would pass up their cars until they have enough of the new 5000s. Like the Pink Line's old cars are going to go to the Blue line so they can get rid of their older cars. Could be wrong.

I will not miss my blinker doors

i really like the overall styling of the 2200-series cars, but those damn blinker doors are awful. their eventual disappearance from the blue line will be wonderful, especially considering that the blue line regularly serves people traveling with large suitcases and such.

Grand shuffle. It's been posted before (I think) but the slow rate at which the new cars arrive make it difficult to assemble a huge fleet of them for the Blue or Red lines. CTA also wants to figure out the maintenance requirements of the 5000s before putting them into grueling, heavy service on the city's busier lines.

What's the background of the name "blinker door"?

Colloquially it refers to the [folding in and to the sides] eyelid-like movement, hence "blinker", the doors make of particularly the CTA Budd 2200 series car but also earlier PCC streetcars.

Wow, your eyes work way differently from my eyes ... ;-) <-- that's a "winker" icon

[Don't feel like doing any research. Need simple reply.]

How long will Granville be closed?

Oh... and, can I get a link or info on the status of new 5000 series trains. First round was defective etc... what is the current status of new trains in our rolling stock?

Thanks.



Related question: why does the CTA suck so bad, all the time?!??! :hell:

you could try scrolling up 7 messages. (re 5000)

From what I can make out, the plan is to get rid of all the 2200s, 2400s, and most 2600s.

Right now, as the 5000s are going into service on Pink & Green, the 2600s and 2400s off of them are being shifted to the Red and Blue lines, replacing old 2200s and 2400s. I think Red is still due to start receiving 5000s before the end of the year.

When all is said and done, Red, Green, Orange, Yellow, Pink, and Purple will be running 5000s, while Brown and Blue will be running 2600s and 3200s.

I am guessing there is other shuffling going on that we don't know about...I've been seeing a lot more Red trains with Purple maps up recently.

Shuffling between Red, Yellow, and Purple is pretty common.

I do hope the 5000s end up on the Blue Line. It needs the extra capacity in each car, which the 3200s will not provide. The smooth ride will also be nice for visitors coming from the airport.

Metra seeks public input to develop first strategic plan in decades
 

http://gridchicago.com/2012/metra-se...an-in-decades/

by STEVEN VANCE on JULY 3, 2012

Furthering its goal of soliciting input and engaging in dialogue with its major stakeholders, Metra is asking its riders, the public, elected officials and others for their help as it begins to craft its first strategic plan in several decades. You can offer input by coming out to one of our public open house forums [calendar below] throughout the region. You can also provide input by completing a short survey actively available here from 7/2/12 until 8/10/12.

All meeting materials are on the Strategic Plan webpage.

CITY OF CHICAGO
Tuesday, July 10, 4 PM – 7 PM
Metra
Board Room, 13th Floor
547 W. Jackson Blvd.
Chicago, IL 60661

DUPAGE COUNTY
Thursday, July 12, 4 PM – 7 PM
Village of Glen Ellyn
Village Hall, Galligan (Village) Board Room, 3rd Floor
535 Duane Street
Glen Ellyn, IL 60137

KANE COUNTY
Tuesday, July 24, 4 PM – 7 PM
City of Geneva
Geneva City Hall
22 South First Street
Geneva, IL 60134

LAKE COUNTY
Tuesday, July 17, 4 PM – 7 PM
Libertyville Village Hall
Board Room/Council Chambers
118 W. Cook Avenue
Libertyville, IL 60048
MCHENRY COUNTY
Wednesday, July 25, 4 PM – 7 PM
Crystal Lake City Hall
Board Room/Council Chambers
100 West Woodstock Street
Crystal Lake, IL 60014

NORTH SUBURBAN COOK COUNTY
Wednesday, July 18, 4 PM – 7 PM
City of Evanston
Civic Center, Parasol Room – 4th Floor
2100 Ridge Avenue
Evanston, IL 60201

SOUTH SUBURBAN COOK COUNTY
Thursday, July 19, 4 PM – 7 PM
Village of Homewood
Village Hall, Board Room
2020 Chestnut Road
Homewood, IL 60430

WEST SUBURBAN COOK COUNTY
Wednesday, July 11, 4 PM – 7 PM
Riverside Village Hall
Room 4
27 Riverside Road
Riverside, IL 60546

WILL COUNTY
Tuesday, July 24, 4 PM – 7 PM
Village of New Lenox
Village Hall, Council Chambers
1 Veterans Parkway
New Lenox, IL 60451

All of the open house events will soon be listed on our sidebar calendar.

Thanks. The metaphor is a bit stretched imho. I wonder if it's regional or not. If these exist in the UK I bet they have some cute name for them.

Bad freight train accident today 27 cars derailed. In the link is a must see video.


http://www.suntimes.com/13588103-418...n-suburbs.html


Freight train derails and bridge collapses in northern suburbs

BY JAMES SCALZITTI AND KATE SCHOTT Sun-Times Media July 4, 2012

Updated: July 4, 2012 5:48PM

...

http://www.suntimes.com/csp/cms/site...YPE=image/jpeg
The train derailment at Willow and Shermer Road in Northbrook, Illinois happened on the Fourth of July with temperatures over 100 degrees. | Al Podgorski~Chicago Sun-Times

http://www.suntimes.com/csp/cms/site...YPE=image/jpeg
Northbrook and Glenview fire departments pack up the hoses at the site of the train derailment at Shermer Road just south of Willow Road on July 4. | Curtis Lehmkuhl~Sun-Times Media

^ Holy cr@p - I read the initial report and figured it was a routine derailment. This looks like it might have started as a bridge collapse/weakening (maybe triggered by the train), which would turn any laden coal train into a big pile of mangled carbon.

Gotta be heat related, given the timing, no?

The WGN report says it could take a month to restore, because of the viaduct. Opportunity for Obama Administration to talk about infrastructure investment.

That's what I thought, too, but the article states that the bridge was just repaired last summer.

I wonder what happened here? It's an awful sight.

Sloppy reporting... This is not the first major derailment to occur at this site. The first one, in 2009, prompted UP to replace the old viaduct with a shitty temporary one. It looked like the same kind of temporary supports holding up some of the UP-North tracks, except that the UP-North only carries featherweight passenger cars and not massive loads of coal.

If I were Glenview, I'd file suit. This is unacceptable.

I'm all for transit investments, but $240 million for a single station rehab and expansion sounds astronomically high. I can't think of a single station renovation that comes even close to in cost.

Philly recently rehabbed two of its busiest subway stations for a combined total of $30 million.
http://www.septa.org/media/short/2012/06-28.html

Boston is planning a complete renovation of a downtown underground station serving two lines (with similar ridership of this CTA Station) for $72 million.
http://www.mbta.com/about_the_mbta/n...nth=10&year=10

Heck, Norfolk and Salt Lake City recently completed entire light rail lines which cost in the 300 millions.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...ay.html?pg=all

New York has budgeted $455 million to renovate "dozens of stations"
http://www.ny1.com/content/top_stori...ubway-stations

I'm sure it will be a beautiful station when it's complete, but it doesn't seem like you're getting a giant bang for your buck.

Body found in car under wreckage of train derailment, bridge collapse
 

It appears as if the worst fears have been realized...

From the Sun-Times website--

More available at the link.

They found another body. I do not know why your article states four cars derailed. It is clear from the video the number is more like the previously reported 27 cars. The updated article says 28 cars.


More in link

Thanks. Just read the CTA release on the 5000s. WHY THE FUCK ARE THEY BEING INTRODUCED FIRST ON THE PINK AND GREEN LINE!!?? Fucking DUMB. Makes no sense... the Red and Blue lines have what, four times the ridership!? God, the CTA really annoys the shit out of me.

EDIT: Mr. Downtown's post below raises a point that I had previously not considered.

Because you put the new technology where it will inconvenience the fewest people if there are problems. You first put it where you have fewer operators and mechanics to train in the new technology. You put the incompatible cars on lines that have modest equipment requirements, so hostlers don't spend the wee hours moving all the cars around at Howard or Rosemont. Have you never heard of the concept of the orderly rollout? You don't just throw open the new hotel the day the national convention starts.

If anything, I would've figured that the CTA would want to tout their new cars on more heavily traversed lines/lines that serve the most out-of-towners (a la Blue Line to O'Hare or the Orange Line to Midway). Although I would agree with Mr. D that a more orderly rollout is probably the best strategy.

A friend of mine got the chance to ride on one of the new 5000 series cars on the Green Line; she said it already smelled like piss and shit.

The upside is that she found them to be more roomy and comfortable. Just hold your nose... ;)

Well, there's no practical reason why CTA can't reorganize the seats on some 2600s if the Blue and Red Line really need more capacity right now. I seem to remember they did something similar to the Brown Line during 3-tracking before 8-car operation began.

Actually I never thought of this. Makes sense. Thanks.

CTA will get blamed for "not keeping them clean" - instead of THE PEOPLE THAT MADE THE MESS.

btw: Is this the same Green Line the 2013 Red Line Shuttles will be feeding into at Garfield?

Just got back from vacation, one day I will load pics from Michigan and start a photo thread but until then, here are some more of UP North bridge work. I have nothing exciting but here are four more pics:
Looking North at Ravenswood station.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8283/7...b171a662_z.jpg
Montrose Ave
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7249/7...3bf16e61_z.jpg
How those caissons get into the ground.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8007/7...b4f5ff4a_z.jpg
Temporary supports for middle spans
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7106/7...edaac438_z.jpg

Gosh! This is very bad accident. It's terrible! Who is their fault? Is that train or the cars. Is he dead or alive? I am not quite sure. I wasn't sure if the train did not stop or slowing it down. They have be careful out there. I wasn't sure if the trains will shutdown until the further notice.

Apparently theirs a switch right before the bridge and the heat could have played a role in this....although the Rail Community is pointing the finger a UP which has a bad record when it comes to accidents and derailments there right up there with CSX and CN...

The Sun-Times may have redeemed itself from its "four cars" reporting with this interesting piece last night:

When it comes to rail-bridge safety, railroads mostly police themselves
BY TINA SFONDELES Transportation Reporter
July 6, 2012 6:38PM

...

Railroads don’t have to routinely provide the [Federal Railroad Administration] with the results of inspections they conduct on their own bridges.

Why not? The Federal Railroad Administration on its website says it would be "counterproductive" to require railroads to do so.

Federal officials said the rationale is that it’s in the best interest of railroads to maintain their bridges well, considering the cost of potential accidents, the cost of replacing a bridge and the loss of service of the track over the bridge.

...

“I think the rationale has been the railroad companies have a lot to lose if they screw up,” [Amtrak spokesman Marc] Magliari said. “They have more staff out there for maintenance and inspection and to also combine that with federal inspectors or state inspectors would be duplication.”

Federal law requires railroads to inspect their bridges twice a year. The bridge near Willow and Shermer roads that collapsed Wednesday was reinforced in 2011 and last inspected on April 6, a Union Pacific spokesman said. No defects were found, he said.

The regulations date back to the 1970 Federal Railroad Safety Act, which changed the way railroads operated. For more than a century, the industry self-regulated many of its safety practices. In the 1960s, companies dealt with declining safety standards and were in poor financial condition.

But the 1970 law created regulations for many aspects of railroad safety, and for the first time gave the railroad administration the authority to inspect rail bridges after an accident, as the agency is doing now with last week’s disaster scene on Shermer Road.

...

But something is missing: “The issue of structures [such as rail bridges] was not of concern in the 1960s and hence there wasn’t any part made into law regarding structures,” ...

Looks like a lawsuit has been filed on behalf of the victims.

I hope they take UP to the cleaners.

Any law experts who can handicap the suit for us?

UP , FRA , CSX , CN take them all to the cleaners , another reason why we should disband the FRA...utterly useless and burdensome agency..

^There's not even a hint yet of what caused the derailment or collapse, but you've already decided on a long list of folks (including railroads that don't run within 20 miles of the site) to be punished for it?