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-   -   Phoenix Development News (3) (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum//showthread.php?t=173764)

Vicelord John Jun 22, 2011 5:26 PM

that reminds me!

There is some sort of zoning permit hearing sign and also a for sale sign on that big parcel on central and mcdowell. Looks like the owner is trying to get it zoned and flip it. Something we undoubtedly have never seen in Phoenix before!

combusean Jun 22, 2011 6:34 PM

^ I went to the City's zoning website to try and find more information about the Central and McDowell project....while I didn't find anything about it, it appears the Toll Brothers project on Central and Thomas is still kicking....they're *still* looking for financing to build the friggen thing.

http://emvis.net/~sean/ssp/projects/.../Z-35-06ph.pdf

has *much* better renderings and siteplans than we've seen of the project yet. Two towers, with a roof height of 658' and another at 514', plus a crown pushing this thing into the 700'+ range.

http://emvis.net/~sean/ssp/projects/...06ph.pdf-8.jpg

http://emvis.net/~sean/ssp/projects/...6ph.pdf-10.jpg

http://emvis.net/~sean/ssp/projects/...6ph.pdf-11.jpg

gymratmanaz Jun 22, 2011 7:13 PM

What is happening at Mcdowell and 3rd ST? On the south west corner ...plus?

combusean Jun 22, 2011 7:26 PM

The northwest corner of Central and McDowell was slated for three 375' residential towers...same height as the Viad Tower.

I have no idea what the zoning could be about. Probably something that will help them flip it more if they're selling it like deletion of stipulations, like building within so many years or conformance to the site plan.

The development team seemed as real as ever, having sat through their presentation to the Willo neighborhood.

http://www.afigroup-global.com/afi_usa_arizona.htm says it's still current, but they say it's going to be the tallest? BS.

Crispy Jun 22, 2011 7:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westbev93 (Post 5324661)
They are installing a chain link fence around the Tom Horne building at 7th and McDowell. Maybe they are actually starting work?

Permit pulled on 6/10/11

"RETURN TO RETAIL SHELL FOR FUTURE IMPROVEMENT OF TENANT SPACES. MINOR DEMOLITION, NEW STOREFRONT, NEW PARTITIONS, FACADE WORK, NEW EXTERIOR AWNINGS, FENCED COURTYARD ENCLOSURE. BUILDING WILL BE DIVIDED UP INTO 8 TENANT SPACES: 100, 110, 120, 130, 140, 150, 160 AND 170. SEPARATE PERMITS REQUIRED FOR TENANT IMPROVEMENT AND CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY FOR EACH SUITE."

combusean Jun 22, 2011 9:00 PM

It's amazing how 31 E Thomas dwarfs the Qwest building...

http://emvis.net/~sean/ssp/projects/...chitects-1.png

http://emvis.net/~sean/ssp/projects/...chitects-2.png

http://emvis.net/~sean/ssp/projects/...chitects-3.png

http://emvis.net/~sean/ssp/projects/...chitects-4.png

http://www.dfarchitects.com/

phxSUNSfan Jun 22, 2011 9:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by combusean (Post 5325004)
It's amazing how 31 E Thomas dwarfs the Qwest building...

So does that mean no more strip mall on Central and Thomas? From the site plan looks like the strip mall would be preserved but the second thread of photos looks like the place is gone...

HX_Guy Jun 22, 2011 9:16 PM

I still see the strip mall along Central here...

http://emvis.net/~sean/ssp/projects/...chitects-1.png

PHX31 Jun 22, 2011 9:24 PM

Interesting... I don't quite see how Twin Tallests plus a third tower that would also be the tallest building in Phoenix is feasible. Maybe one tower that may eventually get built is plausible, but it seems Toll Brothers are in the market of entitlement and flip as well. (However, I don't know what's actually entitled attm, so maybe not).

Would be pretty cool though. I think they look very "futuristic" for Phoenix.

EDIT: It appears they are applying to delete a stipulation that has a condition that calls for them to have a building permit within 60 months (from their original June 2006 approval).

Basically, they're now realizing their time is up and the zoning/height waver approvals are about to revert back. There is a possibility that they'd build if they could have the financing, but there's no way in hell they can. IMO, they're just trying to keep entitlements indefinitely. The City needs to stick to their guns to require building and contruction once they approve certain applications, sh!tty economy or not.

PHX31 Jun 22, 2011 9:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crispy (Post 5324907)
Permit pulled on 6/10/11

"RETURN TO RETAIL SHELL FOR FUTURE IMPROVEMENT OF TENANT SPACES. MINOR DEMOLITION, NEW STOREFRONT, NEW PARTITIONS, FACADE WORK, NEW EXTERIOR AWNINGS, FENCED COURTYARD ENCLOSURE. BUILDING WILL BE DIVIDED UP INTO 8 TENANT SPACES: 100, 110, 120, 130, 140, 150, 160 AND 170. SEPARATE PERMITS REQUIRED FOR TENANT IMPROVEMENT AND CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY FOR EACH SUITE."

Sounds great, especially if "Facade work" means restoration, rather than a new stucco whore job.

I was hoping that relatively cool 2-story building near the SWC of McDowell/3rd St was going to have a cool new facade. But it appears they're just restuccoing it. That looks like a pretty complete gut job... but what's the deal with the grading on the lot immediately east of it?

dtnphx Jun 22, 2011 9:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHX31 (Post 5325035)
Interesting... I don't quite see how Twin Tallests plus a third tower that would also be the tallest building in Phoenix is feasible. Maybe one tower that may eventually get built is plausible, but it seems Toll Brothers are in the market of entitlement and flip as well. (However, I don't know what's actually entitled attm, so maybe not).

Would be pretty cool though. I think they look very "futuristic" for Phoenix.

Looks a little Singapore-ish or Shanghai-ish for that area. I can't imagine how something like that would pencil out. There is not that much demand for office (in that area), that much residential, and for mixed-use frankly. You have a near empty strip sitting in front of it that is not even close to being renovated, so I don't have my hopes up. These are the types of projects that are floated and are NEVER built. EVER. It'll end up a 6-10 story project in 5 years. Forgot to take my anti-cynic pill today, sorry. :slob:

HooverDam Jun 22, 2011 9:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtnphx (Post 5325046)
Looks a little Singapore-ish or Shanghai-ish for that area. I can't imagine how something like that would pencil out. There is not that much demand for office (in that area), that much residential, and for mixed-use frankly. You have a near empty strip sitting in front of it that is not even close to being renovated, so I don't have my hopes up. These are the types of projects that are floated and are NEVER built. EVER. It'll end up a 6-10 story project in 5 years. Forgot to take my anti-cynic pill today, sorry. :slob:

I agree totally. I don't know what that lot is currently zoned for but I really hope the City doesn't approve upzonning it, we've had WAY too much of that. In a perfect world I'd rather see Midtown fill up with 200-400' towers, not these gigantic ones that likely won't ever be built.

If this project ever did seem more real and get steam I certainly wouldn't oppose it, though I'd prefer a City tallest be in Downtown. Dozens of projects over the years with dual and triple towers have been proposed and almost all of them end up as nothing or single towers. I'd get MUCH more excited about a plan for three 200' towers as I can actually imagine it being built.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHX31 (Post 5325035)
EDIT: It appears they are applying to delete a stipulation that has a condition that calls for them to have a building permit within 60 months (from their original June 2006 approval).

Basically, they're now realizing their time is up and the zoning/height waver approvals are about to revert back. There is a possibility that they'd build if they could have the financing, but there's no way in hell they can. IMO, they're just trying to keep entitlements indefinitely. The City needs to stick to their guns to require building and contruction once they approve certain applications, sh!tty economy or not.

Preach on brother, preach on. I wish there was a way for entitlements to not just expire in situations like this but also for the developer to take some sort of hit. If the lot is an empty dirt lot after the timeframe expires it should have to be "greened" with trees or flowers and if its a lot with something on it then the developer should have to donate trees/funds to a City wide "shade bank" or something of the like.

E: Also it seems strange and borderline laughable that the Architectural firm for the alleged project is one that has heretofore specialized in Golf Clubhouses and Gatehouse for private communities. While the renderings certainly aren't ugly, they're a bit blah/whatever. I agree it looks too East Asian and doesn't really say "Phoenix" in any way. If they were really going forward with this sort of project I'd hope they'd can those renderings and brig aboard someone like Eddie Jones who in my opinion is a genius.

combusean Jun 22, 2011 10:32 PM

They have the zoning for the project as it stands. If they are seeking to flip the land, they probably would have done so already.

plinko Jun 22, 2011 10:48 PM

Count me in the camp that thinks Midtown ought to have a height limit in some capacity.

The renderings are interesting and I actually don't mind the shorter tower too much (though it's oriented the wrong direction), but the taller towers just overpower and kill everything around them. This looks like something that would be built in Kuala Lumpur or suburban Singapore (dense, but not uber dense, giant podium, towers close together, and fussy little caps on each of the towers).

I'd love the see the taller towers scrapped for something more in the 6-12 story range with a singular tower of about 500ft along Thomas.

But I'm not going to hold my breath for any of this to actually get built.

What's in that little strip mall still? 10 years ago it was like Domino's, Kinko's and I think a liquor store. My memory is a bit hazy on it though...

Classical in Phoenix Jun 22, 2011 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gymratmanaz (Post 5324836)
What is happening at Mcdowell and 3rd ST? On the south west corner ...plus?

My daughter is going into 7th grade at the Arizona School for the Arts (ASA), which is currently housed in a building they bought last year on the NWC of Willetta and 3rd St., as well as renting space from the church immediately to the west of that building. Last year they also purchased the 2-story building on McDowell (I belive it's call the 217 Building) and the parcel immediately to the south. They are currently renovating the 217 building and will move into it this fall. The are also plans to begin construction of a 4-story building on the parcel to the south of that building by the end of the year. I have seen the renderings for both buildings, and they look nice. From what I have seen, the plan is to redo the facade of the 217 Building and it will match the 4-story building when completed. As far as the SWC of 3rd and McDowell, ASA completed the purchase of that parcel last month and will be holding it for future developement as the school grows. The plan is to own all of their buildings and move out of their leased space.

HooverDam Jun 22, 2011 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Classical in Phoenix (Post 5325146)
My daughter is going into 7th grade at the Arizona School for the Arts (ASA),

off topic but: has she had Ms Annabelle Davey for Science? She's a friend of mine.

Vicelord John Jun 22, 2011 11:55 PM

I call COMPLETE bullshit on that Toll Brothers crap. There is absolutely no market for that. It looks like a Crystal Pointe kind of build and those are on the resale market right now just collecting dust. Hell, Regency House has a ton of remodeled units that aren't selling.

phxSUNSfan Jun 23, 2011 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicelord John (Post 5325214)
I call COMPLETE bullshit on that Toll Brothers crap. There is absolutely no market for that. It looks like a Crystal Pointe kind of build and those are on the resale market right now just collecting dust. Hell, Regency House has a ton of remodeled units that aren't selling.

Regency House is not an attractive building; it reminds me of the senior and low income building near the Salvation Army in downtown. Crystal Pointe is too far off the "grid" to be comparable to the Toll Bro's proposal. One Lexington (which is doing well) and 44 Monroe (since starting to lease apartments in March is nearing 50% occupancy) are more comparable.

On another note, it seems I have the opposite opinion from most of you about building height. I think downtown should be extremely dense but not necessarily very tall, with midtown full of much taller buildings; less fuss over FAA concerns...

Vicelord John Jun 23, 2011 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phxSUNSfan (Post 5325223)
Regency House is not an attractive building; it reminds me of the senior and low income building near the Salvation Army in downtown. Crystal Pointe is too far off the "grid" to be comparable to the Toll Bro's proposal. One Lexington (which is doing well) and 44 Monroe (since starting to lease apartments in March is nearing 50% occupancy) are more comparable.

On another note, it seems I have the opposite opinion from most of you about building height. I think downtown should be extremely dense but not necessarily very tall, with midtown full of much taller buildings; less fuss over FAA concerns...

How many units did 44monroe and Summit sell? How about Chateau? One Lexington isn't exactly selling well, even at a much lower price point. All indications are that this Toll Brothers project is "to be" sales. will not finance.

As for Regency House, have you been inside that building or some of those units that are remodeled? omg....

HooverDam Jun 23, 2011 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phxSUNSfan (Post 5325223)

On another note, it seems I have the opposite opinion from most of you about building height. I think downtown should be extremely dense but not necessarily very tall, with midtown full of much taller buildings; less fuss over FAA concerns...

In a fantasy land Im all for 1000' towers built all up and down Central Ave. The problem is, its not an even somewhat realistic fantasy land, thus not a terribly entertaining thought. I'd much rather see a system of height limits that promotes things actually getting built instead of sitting as dirt lots or surface parking.

There's just no demand in the foreseeable future for 500'+ towers in Midtown, but developers will hold onto their lots in perpetuity (because there's no incentive not to) in hopes of some super project coming along. Imagine every dirt lot and surface lot in Midtown filled with 100-200' towers of varying uses. Would it make for an award winning skyline? No. Would it make for a dynamic urban place? Yes.


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