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LAboomer52 Apr 9, 2011 7:40 AM

Chapmans thread was awesome Ethereal, so glad we still have that building in a state of some dignity. GaylordWilshire posted Hattem's Market on Vermont back in November
with excellent then and now pics.

Here is Hattem's on Vermont opening night 1931.(don't think I saw these here yet)

and Hattem's on Western Opening night 1927

The interiors of these stores are amazing. Wonder how late they stayed open?

gsjansen Apr 9, 2011 10:13 AM


check out counters at the hattem's on vermont 1931
Source: LAPL

Bakery counter
Source: LAPL

an art deco waterfall is not exactly a safeway type shopping experience
Source: LAPL

a closeup of the waterfall
Source: LAPL

i don't know about you, but when i hear the trickling sound of constatnt water, i need to go to..............................the lounge
Source: LAPL

the fish and meat counter
Source: LAPL

and don't forget, easter is just around the corner, so stock up on your produce holiday needs at hattem's!
Source: LAPL

at some point in the early 40's the hattem's on vermont became an allen and huck market. I wonder if they kept the amazing interior design?
Source: USC Digital Archives

gsjansen Apr 9, 2011 1:54 PM

some more noirish car crash fun!

beverly and van ness
Source: USC Digital Archive

if you think that's bad, you should see the other guy......................the other guy
Source: USC Digital Archive

jefferson and figueroa 1951...................did someone call for a cab?
Source: USC Digital Archive

la cienega freeway 1952
Source: USC Digital Archive

if you think that's bad, you should see the other guy........................the other guy
Source: USC Digital Archive

not the kind of other guy you want to get into an accident with..............pch and malibu road 1951.....doh!
Source: USC Digital Archive

north main street bridge over the los angeles river 1952
Source: USC Digital Archive

olympic and grand 1951.......missed the car park by just that much........
Source: USC Digital Archive

109th and figueroa 1951..............remember safety!......(they seem to have forgot!)
Source: USC Digital Archive

Pasadena freeway 1955
Source: USC Digital Archive

an overhead view of the accident looking back towards new chinatown
Source: USC Digital Archive

GaylordWilshire Apr 9, 2011 4:43 PM


gs: That was heady... major carnage, no doubt human as well as automotive. I especially love that first shot with the Lincoln--at least its driver had the decency to take out only one semaphore. And then I noticed the park in the picture.... Street View

"I moved into Robert Burns Park. I stole some blankets from a Goodwill box and slept in an ivy patch for three weeks.... It was fall '68. I met a freak at the Hollywood Public Library. He told me about Benzedrex inhalers.... You weren't supposed to swallow the wads and fly on righteous ten-hour highs.... The high was gooooood. It was brain popping and groin-grabbing.... I... started to think that outdoor living wasn't that bad... [but] forgot to factor rain into my outdoor-life equation.... I found a deserted house at 8th and Ardmore and moved in...." --James Ellroy in what I think is his best book, My Dark Places.

All three apartment buildings in the Beverly and Van Ness crash shots still stand, including the one whose lawn provided the final resting place for the Lincoln and the semaphore it took out: Street View

Los Angeles Past Apr 9, 2011 8:55 PM

"Normal Hill Center"?
Here's an interesting post card of the Normal School that I found on eBay last week. What's interesting was the notation written on the reverse.

ethereal_reality Apr 10, 2011 12:21 AM

Great recent posts everyone...Laboomer52..sopas_ej..gsgansen...and of course Gaylord. :)

Scott, the 'State Normal School' photo with the inscription on back is quite interesting.
Like you, I've never heard of a 'Normal Hill Center'. Isn't it great to find small clues like this when you least expect it.

Recently I have found a few photos and negatives on ebay.

below: A negative showing the Times Building among others.

below: Details of the above negative.

An early school located at Manchester Avenue and Avalon Blvd.

below: The flip side (I changed it to B/W for easier reading).

Manchester and Avalon

South Park School
I knew of this as the Green Meadows School.

Katie Nissen 3rd from the right back row.

(My mother)

below: An early photograph from a studio in Los Angeles.
It seems odd that the photographer's wagon can be seen behind the subject of the photograph.

below: A photograph of the beginning of a fire at Ocean Park.

below: Details

MichaelRyerson Apr 10, 2011 12:52 AM

'A Year of Sacrifice'?

LAboomer52 Apr 10, 2011 9:20 AM

Pierlight on the water
Ocean Park Pier Fire 1912 - Wow!

Here is the Venice Pier (a little further south), at night in 1905

ethereal_reality Apr 10, 2011 10:00 PM

Frolicking aqua-maidens in the pool at the Town House, circa 1951.
usc digital archive
usc digital archive

These beauties made me want to re-visit the Town House Hotel.
usc digital archive
usc digital archive
usc digital archive
usc digital archive
usc digital archive

below: The Town House pool and lanai in 1955.
usc digital archive
usc digital archive

below: The Town House Garden Room in 1955
usc digital archive

below: The famous Zebra Room.
usc digital archive

A few more photos of the aqua-maidens.
usc digital archive
usc digital archive

"Ya'll come back now, ya hear."
usc digital archive

GaylordWilshire Apr 11, 2011 12:33 AM


Amazing series of shots of the Town House, ethereal--incredibly evocative. And by 1955, how much longer did this part of town have as a passably nice address? Next thing you know the decay heralded by Lady In a Cage would set in, then the riots... the lovely side of noir, gone. Sigh....

djlx2 Apr 11, 2011 1:40 AM


Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire (Post 5236098)

Amazing series of shots of the Town House, ethereal--incredibly evocative. And by 1955, how much longer did this part of town have as a passably nice address? Next thing you know the decay heralded by Lady In a Cage would set in, then the riots... the lovely side of noir, gone. Sigh....

Yes. I suppose all we can do about it now is talk about that on the internet, isn't it.

GaylordWilshire Apr 11, 2011 10:06 PM

Now that HBO's version of Mildred Pierce is mercifully over, I wanted to post this shot in tribute to the
magic of noir--that quality we celebrate here that made Cain's novel really live, for 66 years and counting.

GaylordWilshire Apr 13, 2011 1:44 AM

As recently as 1978...
ethereal's recent Town House shots put me in mind of old Wilshire... I tend to gravitate toward noir black
& white, but this set of color shots, which seem so recent to me...aren't. And therein lies the charm. You'll
recognize alot of these buildings, some in later incarnations (pun intended), all but a few gone. Westwood/LAPL

This building was near the Town House, as seen in one of ethereal's shots:

Amazingly, even a few houses still stood on Wilshire in 1978:
Twelve shots above: Anne Laskey/LAPL

sopas ej Apr 13, 2011 2:54 AM

Wow, wow, wow. I love these pictures. This is the Wilshire Boulevard *I* remember as a child. I've mentioned this on here before, but as a very young child, I lived in the Miracle Mile District, when I was 4 years old to when I was 7 (this would be from 1974-1977). I lived on Cochran Avenue, south of Wilshire; hehe and my mother would always make it a point to say to people that we lived NORTH of Olympic. My friend lived on Sierra Bonita. But anyway, that Carnation Building brings back memories; I remember one time my family went to the Carnation restaurant that was there on the ground floor, and for some reason my dad stormed out of there, pissed off, leaving my mother and me and my sister inside, and then we left too. I don't remember what exactly happened, but I remember a waitress apologizing to my mother but my mother not saying anything, we just up and left our booth. I don't know if the service was really bad, or if something was said that insulted my dad or what, but we never went back there again. Hehe and that Carnation Company sign on the building would always make me think of that incident. It hasn't said Carnation Company on the building for a few decades now, but I always think of it as the Carnation building.

What would really bring back memories for me would be if there was a picture of the old Lou Ehlers Cadillac dealership near the Carnation Building with mid-1970s bronze-colored Fleetwoods and de Villes on the lot.

Thanks for posting these, Gaylord. :)

ethereal_reality Apr 13, 2011 3:59 AM

I briefly lived on Cochran as well sopas_ej!

My apartment was just north of Wilshire on the west side of Cochran behind the 5455 Tower.
google street view

The building was full of elderly tenants. At least once a week (so it seemed) an ambulance would arrive to carry out a dead one.
Needless to say it was a bit depressing.
google street view

The landlady lived in the northern half of the building. Each month I would drop off my check at her apartment on the ground floor.
As I stood at her doorway, cockroaches would begin swarming on the door trying to get OUT of her apartment!

I moved out as soon as possible.

unihikid Apr 13, 2011 7:39 AM

i lived on spaulding ave the 1400 block so a little south of you guys,i was more near pico and fairfax.the petersen museum was orbachs back then and my grandmother would take me shopping there and the only thing i really remember was the parking circle,it took you to the next level in a spiral so to a 6 yr old it was the best thing ever.after orbachs we would go to may co,and if i were good she would treat me to carls jr for a hot dog(all of my friends say carls never sold hot dogs but i know they did).and guess where granny bought her last cadillac from lou elhers(my granddad would buy from there every 5 yrs from 1958 to 1977,grannys car was a 84 or 85 brown cadillac cimmiron that couldnt go over 40mph! the only other person i knew who bought from lou was our neighbor mrs lewis,my dad had a 1985 buick century,grey on grey,mrs lewis traded in her 76 caddy for a 86 caddy,its still in her driveway although she cant drive it anymore.


LAboomer52 Apr 13, 2011 8:24 AM

The Carnation Sign in 1954
:previous:I lived 2 blks north of Wilshire on Citrus Ave in 1954-55. Although I was only 2-3 yrs old at the time I vividly remember the carnation sign we could see from a balcony on the second floor at night. (so there was signage on the north facing side of the building too!) It went through a series of changing colors (red, white and yellow) and patterns, (outlining the letters CARNATION MILK one letter at a time with neon, then filling them in with red, white, from left to right, and finally sparkling yellow bulbs inside the letters.) It was a meditation to watch it cycle through that pattern, which took at least a minute, before it repeated itself. I have many vivid memories of 1950's LA and I treasure them. Thanks to you guys for connecting them to what happened before that!:) I have learned so much from you.

Los Angeles Past Apr 13, 2011 9:07 AM


Originally Posted by unihikid (Post 5239514)
if i were good she would treat me to carls jr for a hot dog(all of my friends say carls never sold hot dogs but i know they did).

Absolutely true! I still think Carl's Jr. had the best chili dogs EVER. Used to nosh 'em with hot peppers from the salad bar. mm-mmm-MMMM! :hell:

BTW, loved those color pics of old Wilshire. I wanna go back so bad, I really do...


gsjansen Apr 13, 2011 10:33 AM

wow! those photos of wilshire certainly bring back memories! that is the time period when i last lived in los angeles. (78-80).

i lived (unlike S_EJ), south of olympic on edgewood place,(one block north of san vicente), between hauser and cochran. (actually it was just east of ridgley). my apartment was on the 2nd floor in the back unit, (you can see the entrance with the steps leading up on the right side).

i used to go to sleep each night, (or as the case usually was, very early in the morning), soothed by the traffic on san vicente,

lou ehler's, wilshire between la brea and highland
Source: Architect's Newspaper

and of course, across the street was this, (still the best burger i ever had)
Source: Eater LA

for most of my time there, i was living my own John Fante/Arturo Bandini world. i dated a waitress who was mexican that worked here;
Source: Bird to the north

ahhhhhhhh good times.........good times..............

LAboomer52 Apr 13, 2011 10:41 AM

What ever happened to Betty Jane
I recently learned more about some rather Noir history in my own family regarding my fathers second wife, Betty Jane Pettit, seen here (the blond), in the 3 Stooges short, "Listen Judge"(1952).
courtesy 3 stooges fan club

I was contacted by a 3 stooges fan club on the east coast trying to find out more about her. We discovered that she had previously been married to screenwriter Wilfred Pettit, who committed suicide (accidentally?) in 1948 by hanging himself on his yacht wearing a blue polka dot dress.(I never had known about this)
article from Long Beach Independent 12/15/1948

Betty marrried my Father in 1955, writer/director Bernard Girard, who wrote and directed Alfred Hitchcock, Twilight Zone, Medic, You are There, the Virginian, and many 1950's Golden Age of TV shows. He is pictured here about that time with Fred Astaire on the Paramount Lot,

After they divorced in 1966, I eventually lost track of Betty, but she ended up in a building very much like the one ethereal reality got out of (in the nick of time! lol) at
649 South Burnside Avenue (also, the last house on the block before Wilshire)
google Streetview retouched

In 1996, we were informed that she had (accidentally?) committed suicide by rolling off the roof in a drunken state and was impaled by the iron fence below.

She danced in Danny Kaye musicals, had numerous small parts in films, including The Robe, was married to successful directors and writers, lived in Beverly Hills, even helped raise 3 kids, but in the end, her LA story is a sad one. She was, however, a wonderful person, if not a tragic one.

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