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-   -   CHICAGO: Transit Developments (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101657)

lawfin Apr 12, 2011 5:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomarandlee (Post 5237978)
On its face it seems like an unduely expensive copycat scheme by Daley driven again by recent envy of what he saw in China. Over 17 miles how much could a bullet train really get up to speed and save on time over traditional rail?

I also get a chuckle that a supposedly contorted Blue Line track express idea was at one point deemed to be a great leap forward while Quinns Amtrak proposal according to Daely would be too slow.

I am curious about what the two potential routes would be the articled referred to though.
I am not sure the distance is a limiting factor. The Shanghai Maglev only covers I think 18 or 19 miles...so not much further.

CTA Gray Line Apr 12, 2011 12:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 5238007)
If Daley wanted better airport access from downtown, he shouldn't have closed Meigs Field. (somebody had to say it...)



The only two possible corridors - UP-NW (splitting off at the Kennedy) or MD-W (splitting off at Mannheim or I-190).

I just don't understand why Daley is so adamant about providing access to the airport while the rest of the transit system is a joke by international standards. Hell, Tehran has a better train system than we do.

If Da Mare is this out of touch with the needs of real Chicagoans, then I'm glad he's leaving. At least his dad spent billions giving the city an expressway system, three new transit lines, and a major university (among other things). What have we gotten from the son? A paintjob on the CTA , some bike lanes, and some plants and wrought-iron fencing. That sh*t has no magic to stir my blood.
You hit it right on the head ardecila, His Honor does not seem to give a Flying Eff about plain old Chicagoans who can't afford First Class.

He has already (along with the City Council) w a s t e d +$250 Million on an unusable White Elephant under Block 37; can that ever be recovered?

Nowhereman1280 Apr 12, 2011 2:26 PM
B37 is not unusable. It was a once in a lifetime opportunity to create tracks that connect the Blue and Red Line in the heart of downtown. Whether or not its put to use now or in 20 years, it is something we may never had a chance to do again as the loop is pretty much approaching complete buildout, especially between State and Dearborn...

VivaLFuego Apr 12, 2011 2:58 PM
Having a consistent multi-phase strategic plan and actually sticking to it for the ~20 years required to get results would be a good start. Chicago's now built two downtown airport express terminals with various integration schemes with existing CTA service, the first providing only O'Hare service and the latter requiring full O'Hare and Midway service.... and now, the two options on the table are regional HSR integration with service to Union Station, and a brand new bullet train.

Nowhereman1280 Apr 12, 2011 3:00 PM
Oh yeah, I had completely forgotten about the original intention to use Clark/Lake as an airport express station.

Still, the interlocking under B37 will be useful at some point in the future if Chicago decides to actually put some thought and money into its subway/El system.

emathias Apr 12, 2011 3:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280 (Post 5238257)
...
Still, the interlocking under B37 will be useful at some point in the future if Chicago decides to actually put some thought and money into its subway/El system.
Yeah, if they developed the west portal where the Lake subway turns north under Milwaukee, you could run the Green Line through the subways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VivaLFuego (Post 5238251)
Having a consistent multi-phase strategic plan and actually sticking to it for the ~20 years required to get results would be a good start. Chicago's now built two downtown airport express terminals with various integration schemes with existing CTA service, the first providing only O'Hare service and the latter requiring full O'Hare and Midway service.... and now, the two options on the table are regional HSR integration with service to Union Station, and a brand new bullet train.
I still think something like this would be the best long-term solution. Train to downtown in a subway loop that ties the Loop and North Michigan together. Could run circulator trains in it in between airport trains:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5052/...1258020a_b.jpg

the urban politician Apr 13, 2011 3:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTA Gray Line (Post 5237977)
It's "The Emperors New Clothes" all over again; everybody knows this will never work or happen, but nobody dare tell "His Honor".
^ You and your whining. This is getting old.

I'd like somebody here to explain to me why an express train between O'Hare and downtown will never happen? Yes, I'm not saying it would be easy, but how exactly is this project impossible? The only limiting factor is money.

Daley has (for better or for worse) been a trendsetter when it comes to infrastructure privatization. He has built the grandest American urban park in decades with huge amounts of private money. Why is it completely out of the realm of possibility that he may find a private consortium of investors who (with matching local/federal funds) could build such a line, if it is seen as profitable?

CTA Gray Line Apr 13, 2011 4:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 5239308)
^ You and your whining. This is getting old.

I'd like somebody here to explain to me why an express train between O'Hare and downtown will never happen? Yes, I'm not saying it would be easy, but how exactly is this project impossible? The only limiting factor is money.

Daley has (for better or for worse) been a trendsetter when it comes to infrastructure privatization. He has built the grandest American urban park in decades with huge amounts of private money. Why is it completely out of the realm of possibility that he may find a private consortium of investors who (with matching local/federal funds) could build such a line, if it is seen as profitable?
What I'm whining about got old years ago.

Why doesn't he seek some private consortium funds somewhere to restore the X-Bus routes (like Apple at the North&Clybourn Station - how about the Target X55 Garfield, or the Wal-Mart X80 Irving Park). Or work on getting the Transit Agencies to implement a UFC - something regular Chicagoans could really use; I've never heard him say crap about a UFC, and if he had thrown his power behind it - it would have been implemented years ago.

Who would use a $15 to $20 Airport Train - certainly not most regular Chicagoans (who could afford it along with the plane ticket). There are already two rail services to O'Hare - why do we need three rail services to O'Hare, when other parts of the city are Transit deficient. And what are we going to do with his money-well-spent +$250 Million Block 37 SuperStation???

Just like Meigs Field, the Skyway, and the Parking Meters; the Public gets no say in his Paternalistic endeavours (and who's getting buggered for 70 something years in that Parking Meter deal - certainly not Da' Mayor).


But I shouldn't whine about these things, and I should understand that other people always know what's best for me and my Community.


Question urban politician: Who knows what's best for you, and your Community???

the urban politician Apr 13, 2011 4:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTA Gray Line (Post 5239362)
What I'm whining about got old years ago.

Why doesn't he seek some private consortium funds somewhere to restore the X-Bus routes (like Apple at the North&Clybourn Station - how about the Target X55 Garfield, or the Wal-Mart X80 Irving Park). Or work on getting the Transit Agencies to implement a UFC - something regular Chicagoans could really use.

Who would use a $15 to $20 Airport Train - certainly not most regular Chicagoans (who could afford it along with the plane ticket). There are already two rail services to O'Hare; and what are we going to do with the money-well-spent +$250 Million Block 37 SuperStation???
^ Why would a private consortium fund any of the routes that you mentioned? Private money is looking at profit margins. Those routes probably aren't profitable. A $20 train that whisks tourists/business travelers from O'Hare to the Loop in under 20 minutes, or whisks you from the Loop to O'Hare in the same time post-TSA could perhaps run a profit. What don't you get about that?

Quote:
Just like Meigs Field, the Skyway, and the Parking Meters; the Public gets no say in his Paternalistic endeavours.
^ Thank God for that! There is no way in hell the public is capable of making good and rational decisions when it comes to urban development. They are too stupid & self-centered. I have long agreed with Steely Dan that people need to be told what to do instead of the other way around.

Beta_Magellan Apr 13, 2011 4:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTA Gray Line (Post 5239362)
Why doesn't he seek some private consortium funds somewhere to restore the X-Bus routes (like Apple at the North&Clybourn Station - how about the Target X55 Garfield, or the Wal-Mart X80 Irving Park).
We already do this—it’s called putting ads on the side of the bus. I doubt naming rights would add much value.

CTA Gray Line Apr 13, 2011 8:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 5239376)
^ Why would a private consortium fund any of the routes that you mentioned? Private money is looking at profit margins. Those routes probably aren't profitable.

> I am trying to create jobs, and access to jobs, however it's funded; lots of transit lines are not necessarily profitable, but are subsidized for economic reasons - right or wrong?



A $20 train that whisks tourists/business travelers from O'Hare to the Loop in under 20 minutes, or whisks you from the Loop to O'Hare in the same time post-TSA could perhaps run a profit. What don't you get about that?

> What I don't get is that the money could be spent elsewhere in the city to profit and serve city residents; air travelers already have two rail services (and cabs, shuttle buses, limos, autos, etc...). And as has been pointed out, if the Blue Line were improved to full train operating speed condition (or the Metra North Central with an ATS connection); an HSR or Maglev wouldn't be needed.

If he had found ways to better serve deficient parts of the city, I would think a Maglev was a great idea; and it would draw tourists and novelty seekers (like a Roller Coaster does): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqAJe...eature=related


^ Thank God for that! There is no way in hell the public is capable of making good and rational decisions when it comes to urban development. They are too stupid & self-centered. I have long agreed with Steely Dan that people need to be told what to do instead of the other way around.
> Does that include you?? (let me guess - "Oh no, I'm smart enough to think for myself").

CTA Gray Line Apr 13, 2011 8:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beta_Magellan (Post 5239390)
We already do this—it’s called putting ads on the side of the bus. I doubt naming rights would add much value.
It might draw customers into the sponsoring store or business (especially if it was a frequent service); I would shop at Target if they were sponsoring an X-bus service that I used (and I'd let the Store Manager know).

CTA Gray Line Apr 13, 2011 8:56 AM
South Lakefront Corridor Transit Study Meeting
 
Is anyone from this Forum attending the Corridor Study Meeting tomorrow: http://www.redeyechicago.com/news/ct...4569031.column

Mr Downtown Apr 13, 2011 2:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 5239376)
A $20 train that whisks tourists/business travelers from O'Hare to the Loop in under 20 minutes, or whisks you from the Loop to O'Hare in the same time post-TSA could perhaps run a profit. What don't you get about that?
The part where it ever happens. What prevents a private transportation company from offering such a service today? GO Airport Express, with nonunion drivers, cheap vans, and no tracks or terminals to pay for, is $28 plus tip.

The business-traveler market for a train from the Loop to O'Hare is badly constrained by the fact that only two hotels are within walking distance of a Union Station terminal, and only four or five within walking distance of Block 37. Continuing downstate trains on out to O'Hare, though, seems like an idea worth exploring. I was sorry to see Mayor Daley so dismissive of it.

the urban politician Apr 13, 2011 8:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 5239686)
The part where it ever happens. What prevents a private transportation company from offering such a service today? GO Airport Express, with nonunion drivers, cheap vans, and no tracks or terminals to pay for, is $28 plus tip.

The business-traveler market for a train from the Loop to O'Hare is badly constrained by the fact that only two hotels are within walking distance of a Union Station terminal, and only four or five within walking distance of Block 37. Continuing downstate trains on out to O'Hare, though, seems like an idea worth exploring. I was sorry to see Mayor Daley so dismissive of it.
^ Says the same guy who said that "tens" of people would use Metra to get to the Sox game, and instead 1200 did so. Your pessimism about everything rail gets old.

I'm sure solutions to what you mentioned can be worked out and still make it competitive with those private shuttle companies. Besides, with traffic I doubt those shuttles would compete with a train, especially if the train truly offered riders to go through TSA security while still downtown.

Nowhereman1280 Apr 13, 2011 9:09 PM
Let me take a minute to change the topic from the typical incessant pessimism of this thread:


I would just like to rejoice in the fact that I am using the train to get to work for the first time in over a year. After I started working out by O'Hare instead of downtown, I was forced to drive to my job since I was not close enough to the Blue Line for it to be a reasonable commute. I just moved to Logan Square and my life is so much better now thanks to the CTA and their cost-effective, reasonably high quality, frequent service. I've been enjoying the crap out of my stress-free 10 minute walk from my house to the subway. It feels so good to be car-free again...

Also, until now (having always lived on the North Side) I never realized how reasonably efficient the East-West buses between Logan Square or Avondale and Lincoln Park are. I'm able to get from my house to Lincoln Park in 15 or 20 minutes which is not bad at all.

Beta_Magellan Apr 13, 2011 11:08 PM
You’re right, Nowehereman—as much as we worry about expansion, the core network is in pretty good shape with the exception of the Red Line north of Belmont, whose repair has been bumped up to the CTA’s first priority. Even without the X-routes our buses are still pretty good—I ended up doing a lot of running around yesterday afternoon and ended up having to take four buses and a two train rides, all without any problem. As a Boston native, the train was my first choice and I never really considered the bus an option—Chicago changed my mind about that.

Do you have to worry about Pace for your commute? Last summer I considered taking a job in Arlington heights, but one of the things that dissuaded me from pursuing it was having to rely on both Metra’s reverse trains and Pace to get to my destination, not so much a problem with the trains as with me (I don’t think I could take having to wait more than fifteen minutes if I missed my bus/train to work).

ardecila Apr 14, 2011 2:29 AM
I don't know how you can call the east-west buses efficient. Sure, they don't break down, and - eventually - they get you where you're going, but they're an agonizingly slow way to get around.

At a minimum, they need to drastically reduce the number of stops on Irving Park, Belmont, and North. Not a separate express service that only comes every 20 minutes - I mean eliminating the other stops completely. This would lower travel times and increase frequency (a driver can complete more end-to-end runs in a given shift).

Jenner Apr 14, 2011 3:12 AM
Why wasn't the Paulina connector moved to Ashland during the rebuild? That would seem to make more sense if they were interested in the circle line, as the CTA wouldn't need to buy so many properties (assuming they will go through with it.)

emathias Apr 14, 2011 5:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenner (Post 5240775)
Why wasn't the Paulina connector moved to Ashland during the rebuild? That would seem to make more sense if they were interested in the circle line, as the CTA wouldn't need to buy so many properties (assuming they will go through with it.)
Why would you move it? You can route it to Ashland if a Circle Line is ever built (doubtful in my lifetime) and in the mean time it's much more efficient where it is, seeing as it can go straight up from the Pink Line's route on existing right-of way without covering a busy street with either disruptive or extremely expensive (or both) elevated structures.


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