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-   -   How Is Covid-19 Impacting Life in Your City? (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=242036)

Pedestrian Oct 12, 2020 2:16 AM

Quote:

Valley Pay Cuts Ignite Tech-Industry Covid-19 Tensions
By Katherine Bindley and Eliot Brown
Updated Oct. 11, 2020 1:52 pm ET

Tech workers fleeing the San Francisco Bay Area to work remotely amid the pandemic are facing a new reality: pay cuts.

Over the past several months, Covid-19 has shaken traditional notions of where employees can work. In Silicon Valley, which has a relatively high cost of living and an employee base with access to state-of-the-art remote-work tools, companies are devising plans for a future with decentralized staffs. In some cases, changes can include cutting salaries by 15% or more depending on where someone moves.

The nascent pay-cut movement stands to create tension between some of the most profitable companies in the world and skilled employees who enjoy high salaries.

Companies point out that changing pay based on the local cost of living is standard practice for many organizations, including the federal government—with decisions to raise or lower salaries related to housing costs and other factors. someone take a San Francisco salary to Wyoming could be considered unfair to present and future remote hires in cheaper cities who might receive a lower wage.

But Silicon Valley companies have spent years going beyond standard corporate norms to endear themselves to their workers. In an era where companies rain free food, massages and yoga studios on their software engineers, the cold rationality of geography-based pay risks alienating employees used to being courted.

Payments company Stripe Inc. has started offering employees leaving San Francisco, New York or Seattle a one-time bonus of $20,000 to relocate, but they would have to take a pay cut of as much as 10%. For employees at VMware Inc., a cloud software provider, moving from the Bay Area to Denver could mean a cut of as much as 18% . . . .

https://www.wsj.com/articles/silicon...d=hp_lead_pos2

Turns out working from home or in some other place won't be all gravy.

Steely Dan Oct 12, 2020 5:31 PM

Remember folks, this thread is only for discussion about how covid is affecting your city.

All other general covid jack-assery belongs in the CE toilet.

the urban politician Oct 12, 2020 6:32 PM

https://cdn.guff.com/site_0/media/33...66b0be8f89.jpg

10023 Oct 13, 2020 6:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9069858)
That's almost precisely what our HOA did--along with closed circuit cameras so the security staff could monitor it and removing some of the equipment to keep what remained "distanced" and the SF Health Department said it wasn't good enough. We had to have a live human there keeping watch . . . in the room.

Ridiculous nanny state overreach.

As far as I can tell there is no life in my city. I’m on the lookout for new speakeasies.

CaliNative Oct 13, 2020 9:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 9069483)
The “right thing” does not necessarily mean blindly accepting and following a made-up-on-the-spot set of rules created without democratic process by political leaders desperate to seem as if they are “doing something”.

Democrats blame Trump for the number of Covid cases which is ridiculous. They look disingenuous and childish, but that’s politics. The virus will do its thing, most people will get it, and some people will die. We knew this in February.

Let’s not destroy the economy and the financial futures of all of us who are not at risk from the virus (not to mention ruin years of our lives and make us deeply depressed) in a vain attempt at preventing nature from taking its course. We are pushing water uphill.

And by the way, if this ruins 2 years of life for everyone, that’s probably more than the average remaining life expectancy of people who would die from it. Not to mention that a year of life in one’s 20s, 30s or 40s is worth more than one in their 80s.

^^^
You say..."a year of life in one's 20s, 30s or 40s is worth more than one in their 80s". I'd take one Einstein or Mandela over a thousand ignorant and self absorbed 20 somethings. Life is precious for all, including those in their last years, and wisdom does come with age and experience. You would condemn your parents and grandparents to sickness and possible death? Don't you know that the key to opening up the economy (until vaccines and widely available therapeutics are available) is stamping out the virus by social distancing, masks and contact tracing? It has worked where it has been tried. New Zealand is now practically virus free. The economy will be depressed as long as the virus is spreading like a wild fire. And by the way, some under 40s ARE at risk from the virus. Plenty have been sickened and some have died. The long term effects of this disease are still unknown. Letting the virus run wild in a misguided attempt to get "herd immunity" would be a disaster for people and the economy.

We are all in this together, young and old. If this disease mainly attacked the young, as the 1918 "Spanish" flu apparently did, I would be in favor of all measures to contain it. Saying the lives of some are worth more than others, as you appear to do, is a path to be avoided.

10023 Oct 13, 2020 4:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliNative (Post 9071394)
^^^
You say..."a year of life in one's 20s, 30s or 40s is worth more than one in their 80s". I'd take one Einstein or Mandela over a thousand ignorant and self absorbed 20 somethings. Life is precious for all, including those in their last years, and wisdom does come with age and experience. You would condemn your parents and grandparents to sickness and possible death? Don't you know that the key to opening up the economy (until vaccines and widely available therapeutics are available) is stamping out the virus by social distancing, masks and contact tracing? It has worked where it has been tried. New Zealand is now practically virus free. The economy will be depressed as long as the virus is spreading like a wild fire. And by the way, some under 40s ARE at risk from the virus. Plenty have been sickened and some have died. The long term effects of this disease are still unknown. Letting the virus run wild in a misguided attempt to get "herd immunity" would be a disaster for people and the economy.

We are all in this together, young and old. If this disease mainly attacked the young, as the 1918 "Spanish" flu apparently did, I would be in favor of all measures to contain it. Saying the lives of some are worth more than others, as you appear to do, is a path to be avoided.

I disagree with pretty much all of this.

I’m not making a judgement between an Einstein and a regular Joe, which is a completely different debate about whether exceptional people’s lives are worth more than average (or below average) ones.

That regular Joe’s 30s are still worth more than his 80s. This isn’t even that controversial - an actuary or Britain’s own National Health Service would implicitly say the same thing when they ascribe a monetary value to a life.

Beyond simple enjoyment and realisation of potential (harmed significantly by Covid interrupting the educations, careers and social development of younger people), old people are generally retired, and so their activity has less importance for the economy. They tend to live in larger homes, and so can more easily cope with “stay at home” orders. They are more likely to be homebodies anyway, frankly. And they are the ones at risk.

The measures you mention have NOT worked where they have been tried - countries in Europe that had incredibly strict lockdowns in the spring are currently in a second wave. Sweden pursued “herd immunity” (while advising the elderly and vulnerable to protect themselves, which they did) and is not suffering from a second wave today. Their approach has been validated. New Zealand is a special case and is likely to have huge outbreaks whenever they open their borders again to foreign travel. And you place far too much faith in a vaccine.

They should not be ruining 2 years of everyone’s life in order to save mostly people in nursing homes with in most cases not much more than that left. The average age of people dying from Covid is greater than average life expectancy!

someone123 Oct 13, 2020 7:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 9071612)
They should not be ruining 2 years of everyone’s life in order to save mostly people in nursing homes with in most cases not much more than that left.

Here in Canada we already had outbreaks in something like 1/3 of all old folks' homes during the lockdown back around May.

I'd guess that outcomes in those places depend a lot more on the standard of care they provide than the overall prevalence in the population. This follows from the fact that the severity of an outbreak depends on transmission inside the home. There are known cases of care homes where workers tested positive and 0 residents got sick, then other cases where residents kept getting sick for many weeks. Whether the community prevalence is 0.1% or 10% the care homes need to keep the workers and residents from giving covid to each other if they're going to avoid deaths. Community-wide measures seem like a really inefficient way to reduce spread inside care homes.

mrnyc Oct 13, 2020 7:37 PM

great to see one of the nicest grocery store settings back up and running -- heinen's in downtown cleveland. :tup:


https://live.staticflickr.com/1752/4...2e2e5655_b.jpg

mrnyc Oct 13, 2020 7:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 9071612)
I disagree with pretty much all of this.

I’m not making a judgement between an Einstein and a regular Joe, which is a completely different debate about whether exceptional people’s lives are worth more than average (or below average) ones.

That regular Joe’s 30s are still worth more than his 80s. This isn’t even that controversial - an actuary or Britain’s own National Health Service would implicitly say the same thing when they ascribe a monetary value to a life.

Beyond simple enjoyment and realisation of potential (harmed significantly by Covid interrupting the educations, careers and social development of younger people), old people are generally retired, and so their activity has less importance for the economy. They tend to live in larger homes, and so can more easily cope with “stay at home” orders. They are more likely to be homebodies anyway, frankly. And they are the ones at risk.

The measures you mention have NOT worked where they have been tried - countries in Europe that had incredibly strict lockdowns in the spring are currently in a second wave. Sweden pursued “herd immunity” (while advising the elderly and vulnerable to protect themselves, which they did) and is not suffering from a second wave today. Their approach has been validated. New Zealand is a special case and is likely to have huge outbreaks whenever they open their borders again to foreign travel. And you place far too much faith in a vaccine.

They should not be ruining 2 years of everyone’s life in order to save mostly people in nursing homes with in most cases not much more than that left. The average age of people dying from Covid is greater than average life expectancy!


becuase opening and closing for 2wks when rates get too high in certain neighborhoods and wearing a mask and washing your hands is ruining everyones life. :rolleyes:

Steely Dan Oct 13, 2020 8:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnyc (Post 9071838)
great to see one of the nicest grocery store settings back up and running -- heinen's in downtown cleveland. :tup:

DAMN!

now that's a classy way to get your milk and eggs!



reminds a little bit of this walgreens in chicago's wicker park.

it's obviously a contemporary build-out of an old bank building:

https://www.airbnb.com/google_place_...lace_id=220819
source: https://www.airbnb.com/things-to-do/...nited%20States


they even saved and re-purposed the old bank vault down in the basement, a fun detail:

https://patch.com/img/cdn/users/3768....jpg?width=695
source: https://patch.com/illinois/bucktown-...min-vault-cafe

mrnyc Oct 13, 2020 8:19 PM

^ yep reused banks are a thing -- the cle heinens was closed during covid and it i think it got some george floyd riot damage. it's back!

ps -- i have three old banks on our intersection. one is a drug store, one a museum and one is ... a bank! :haha:

Stay Stoked Brah Oct 13, 2020 8:24 PM

both those places are sick!

10023 Oct 13, 2020 8:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnyc (Post 9071842)
becuase opening and closing for 2wks when rates get too high in certain neighborhoods and wearing a mask and washing your hands is ruining everyones life. :rolleyes:

It’s more that closing for two weeks is pointless.

And no one is complaining about washing their hands. I did that a lot before all this, maybe that’s why I haven’t had it. And I wear a mask when I have to.

It’s the business closures and social distancing that ruin normal life.

mrnyc Oct 13, 2020 8:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 9071917)
It’s more that closing for two weeks is pointless.

And no one is complaining about washing their hands. I did that a lot before all this, maybe that’s why I haven’t had it. And I wear a mask when I have to.

It’s the business closures and social distancing that ruin normal life.

except the businesses are not closed, they are paused for 2wks to get a handle on super spreader events caused by your ilk only wearing a mask when you have to. :rolleyes:

besides, many people have a job where you can work remotely now, at least for a time, so its no effect at all on some, everyone is used to it now (ie., schools).

and as for social distancing ruining your life? maybe for you, but no doubt if you do it its saving somebody elses from health problems.

suburbanite Oct 13, 2020 8:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnyc (Post 9071932)
except the businesses are not closed, they are paused for 2wks to get a handle on super spreader events caused by your ilk only wearing a mask when you have to. :rolleyes:

besides, many people have a job where you can work remotely now, at least for a time, so its no effect at all on some, everyone is used to it now (ie., schools).

and as for social distancing ruining your life? maybe for you, but no doubt if you do it its saving somebody elses from health problems.

This kind of sentiment is pretty dismissive of the massive number of people who live paycheck to paycheck working in the service industry. I find that those who make these public policy decisions and others who make a living behind a computer screen have tended to very quickly switch to promoting the "no one can ever get sick again" mentality. It's much easier to casually dismiss just two weeks of shutting down while sitting in a position of relative economic security.

iheartthed Oct 13, 2020 8:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 9071917)
And no one is complaining about washing their hands. I did that a lot before all this, maybe that’s why I haven’t had it. And I wear a mask when I have to.

It is well documented that the virus is airborne, and most person-to-person transmission occurs through the air. It's like you haven't read a single thing about what has been learned about the virus's transmission in 8 months, but keep derailing the thread with your Trumpian theories.

chris08876 Oct 13, 2020 9:55 PM

N.J. reports 993 new COVID-19 cases, 7 more deaths. Hospitalizations above 600 for 7th day.

Quote:

New Jersey on Tuesday reported 993 more coronavirus positive tests and seven additional deaths, marking the fourth time in six days the state has announced more than 800 cases.

Meanwhile, hospitalizations related to COVID-19 across the state were above 600 for the seventh straight day.

And the statewide rate of transmission held steady at 1.16 after declining gradually over the past week, though that’s still above the critical benchmark of 1 that indicates the outbreak here is growing. The rate has been above 1 for more than five weeks.

“Make no mistake: We are not out of the woods yet,” Gov. Phil Murphy said while announcing the latest figures during an event at a brewery in Hillsborough, where he announced $100 million in new economic recovery funding. “We still have work to do to beat this virus."
Pa. and N.J. are among the states trying to stave off a second coronavirus wave

Quote:

The average number of new coronavirus infections being diagnosed in Pennsylvania and New Jersey showed no sign of slowing Monday, even after warnings last week from officials advising the public to double down on safety practices.

Both states had higher new case count averages this week than last Monday, according to an Inquirer data analysis — and are part of a trend of increases both nationally and in the Northeast.

New York has also begun fighting an emerging surge; over the weekend, new restrictions took effect in parts of New York City. New case counts continued rising in other states — in the middle of the country, including in North Dakota, South Dakota, Wisconsin, and Nebraska, and in mountain states, including Montana and Utah.

As of Monday, the United States had recorded almost 7.8 million cases and was nearing 215,000 deaths, according to Johns Hopkins University.

[...]
=================
1. https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020/...r-7th-day.html
2. https://www.inquirer.com/news/corona...-20201012.html

JManc Oct 13, 2020 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 9071612)

That regular Joe’s 30s are still worth more than his 80s. This isn’t even that controversial - an actuary or Britain’s own National Health Service would implicitly say the same thing when they ascribe a monetary value to a life.

People with a conscience do not look at the aged as depreciating assets. I agree that lockdowns should be scaled back and people should be allowed to use their best judgement (within reason) but this cavalier disregard for a huge subset of the population are why have lockdowns and restrictions.

The NHS has to make these shitty distinctions because it's a nationalized healthcare system and thus prioritize finite financial resources.

CaliNative Oct 14, 2020 12:17 AM

Some of the countries that have almost contained their outbreaks because of good public health practices (masks, social distancing, contact tracing): Singapore, New Zealand, Greece, S. Korea, Uruguay. There are others. Now these countries can open up with caution and can get "herd immunity" from a vaccine that should be available next year rather than people getting sick from the virus. If the U.S. had stuck with correct public health practices the economy would be open and much better off now and people would be going back to work. In New Zealand life is back to normal and viral rates are so low that they don't need to wear masks. The U.S. should have followed these examples of correct public health measures. We would be OK by now and the number of deaths would have been much lower. Needless deaths. When you can't go to work it is because we didn't listen to the scientific experts. Public health became a political football.

canucklehead2 Oct 14, 2020 12:57 AM

I'm immune compromised (found that out late last year just before COVID-19) so I'm very anxious and careful when going out these days which isn't often. Masks on, hands washed.

Movie theatres used to be a 2-3 times a week activity for me, now even though it's open I don't visit. Instead I bought myself a full HD projector and a 100 inch screen.

Most people where I live currently don't take it seriously and don't wear masks or wash their hands so naturally these places have lost my business forever including the grocery store where I was attacked on July 10 for wearing a mask...


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