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-   -   CHICAGO: Transit Developments (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101657)

ArteVandelay Mar 27, 2008 8:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhioGuy (Post 3443440)
And are they EVER going to get Washington finished? I never see any work being done there.

The work at Washington isn't actually to renovate the station, its work associated with the new Block 37 station. The existing stairway down to the blue line transfer tunnel was exactly where the new tracks are to cut across, so each stairway had to be moved out about 75-100 feet. When the station reopens it probably won't look much different, except perceptive people will notice that the stairs are in a different spot then they used to be.

All work is being performed inside a closed off area, so nothing is visible to passing trains.

VivaLFuego Mar 27, 2008 9:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 3443655)
^Some of us are working to get these three stations preserved and restored, rather than remodeled. The state office of historic preservation is raising all kinds of spurious roadblocks, claiming to have "lost the file" several times.

It'd be nice for at least one of the subways stops to be restored to something pretty close to original design (albeit with better/brighter light fixtures and maybe some tasteful, non-intrusive, darker-colored wall paneling at platform level to absorb sound and help hide brake dust soot), though I doubt it will happen. The glazed brick, Futura typefaces, and simple design have more aesthetic potential to my eye than the cheesed-up rehabbed stations, though I'd take the rehabbed stations over the dilapidated stalactite-ridden messes that are the current stops.

emathias Mar 27, 2008 9:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Via Chicago (Post 3443267)
"It's the Green Line that needs it - those stations are old."

Which Green Line is he referring to? The one in Boston? I can't think of any Green Line stations that are even half as bad as the Grand stop on the Red Line.

emathias Mar 27, 2008 9:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 3443655)
^Some of us are working to get these three stations preserved and restored, rather than remodeled. The state office of historic preservation is raising all kinds of spurious roadblocks, claiming to have "lost the file" several times.

While I support the idea of preserving a lot of things in this city, I don't think I'd support preserving a subway station in its original form. Too small, too cramped, to old (as opposed to historic) feeling. Now, a remodel that used original typefaces and finishes I could get behind, but I think the form of the stations needs to be updated to reflect modern expectations when it comes to transit stations.

honte Mar 27, 2008 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 3443655)
^Some of us are working to get these three stations preserved and restored, rather than remodeled. The state office of historic preservation is raising all kinds of spurious roadblocks, claiming to have "lost the file" several times.

Thanks for your efforts. Sometimes I come across articles / comments that praise the old stations. Will let you know if I remember any of these or come across any others.

Marcu Mar 28, 2008 7:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emathias (Post 3443942)
Which Green Line is he referring to? The one in Boston? I can't think of any Green Line stations that are even half as bad as the Grand stop on the Red Line.

Do the green line stations (outside of the loop) combined even get as much daily traffic as the Grand red line station?

VivaLFuego Mar 28, 2008 2:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcu (Post 3445402)
Do the green line stations (outside of the loop) combined even get as much daily traffic as the Grand red line station?

Yeah (certainly on the Lake branch, the South Main totals barely more than Grand/State), but the comment is still incomprehensible; the Green Line stations are almost all in very good shape, with the exception of a few on the south side which at most could benefit from a fresh coat of paint.

Abner Mar 28, 2008 3:30 PM

People still have this idea that the Green Line is empty all the time, but in 2007 the Lake branch alone had almost as many passengers as the Orange Line, and the same number as the Forest Park Blue Line. And ridership on the Lake branch is going way up, in contrast to most of the other lines. And the stations are certainly in very good shape.

Taft Mar 28, 2008 3:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abner (Post 3445834)
People still have this idea that the Green Line is empty all the time, but in 2007 the Lake branch alone had almost as many passengers as the Orange Line, and the same number as the Forest Park Blue Line. And ridership on the Lake branch is going way up, in contrast to most of the other lines. And the stations are certainly in very good shape.

Historical reasons, I'd guess. When they closed the line for renovation, ridership was already low. Closing it decimated ridership. As ridership has climbed back up, public opinion has been slow in following.

Attitudes will change...

Taft

VivaLFuego Mar 28, 2008 4:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abner (Post 3445834)
People still have this idea that the Green Line is empty all the time, but in 2007 the Lake branch alone had almost as many passengers as the Orange Line, and the same number as the Forest Park Blue Line. And ridership on the Lake branch is going way up, in contrast to most of the other lines. And the stations are certainly in very good shape.

The Lake Street branch is very successful, but almost entirely buoyed by stations from Central Avenue to Harlem (Laramie to California are still very low ridership). Ashland and Clinton got a recent bump in ridership once the Pink Line started running.

The South Main still has incredibly low ridership though; I think the riders-per-route-mile might even be a bit less than the Pink Line; it's close.

Abner Mar 28, 2008 6:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego (Post 3445934)
The Lake Street branch is very successful, but almost entirely buoyed by stations from Central Avenue to Harlem (Laramie to California are still very low ridership). Ashland and Clinton got a recent bump in ridership once the Pink Line started running.

The South Main still has incredibly low ridership though; I think the riders-per-route-mile might even be a bit less than the Pink Line; it's close.

From the Dec 2007 ridership report it looks like there's a decent but not vast dropoff east of Central (Cicero and Pulaski are still pretty respectable, but Central Park and California are very slow). It's too bad the city hasn't tried to encourage more integration with the Green Line among new developments in Bronzeville, but I guess redevelopment hasn't gotten that far west yet. The areas around the South Main are probably the emptiest places served by the el. I imagine that the long wait at the two spurs at the end probably holds down ridership on the line too.

I wonder how high Pink Line ridership will eventually climb now that rebuilding is done. East of Kedzie or so it is very dense, but a larger proportion of the population is not Loop-bound.

OhioGuy Mar 31, 2008 1:04 AM

Big day on the CTA today. Southport and Diversey reopened, while Paulina and Wellington closed. Additionally the three track service in the southbound direction has begun at Belmont & Fullerton.

I also noticed the CTA has a new design for the main page of their website. Their system map still needs to be updated though. It's been showing Montrose and Addision closed on the brown line, despite the fact they've been open for 4 months now. Not to mention several other stations are now open and/or closed.

jjk1103 Mar 31, 2008 3:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArteVandelay (Post 3443845)
The work at Washington isn't actually to renovate the station, its work associated with the new Block 37 station. The existing stairway down to the blue line transfer tunnel was exactly where the new tracks are to cut across, so each stairway had to be moved out about 75-100 feet. When the station reopens it probably won't look much different, except perceptive people will notice that the stairs are in a different spot then they used to be.

All work is being performed inside a closed off area, so nothing is visible to passing trains.

...this has probably already been covered, but I've lost track.......have they finished the excavation work on the superstation ? ...and have they finally decided if they are going to actually finish it ? ...or just take it to a point and leave it for a future date ?

emathias Mar 31, 2008 7:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjk1103 (Post 3451651)
...this has probably already been covered, but I've lost track.......have they finished the excavation work on the superstation ? ...and have they finally decided if they are going to actually finish it ? ...or just take it to a point and leave it for a future date ?

What would happen if they didn't create a station but just used it as a connection and created an "Airports Line" that through-routed the Orange Line to O'Hare? I can't imagine anyone would use it to travel between the airports, but it'd be an optional routing. Maybe there are other possibilities, too. Heck, if they used those west-bound portals to create a subway entrance for the Oak Park branch of the Green Line, you could move the Green Line off the Loop and run it through the subways, opening up some capacity on the Loop to increase service on other lines.

OhioGuy Mar 31, 2008 2:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhioGuy (Post 3451305)
Big day on the CTA today. Southport and Diversey reopened, while Paulina and Wellington closed. Additionally the three track service in the southbound direction has begun at Belmont & Fullerton.

I also noticed the CTA has a new design for the main page of their website. Their system map still needs to be updated though. It's been showing Montrose and Addision closed on the brown line, despite the fact they've been open for 4 months now. Not to mention several other stations are now open and/or closed.

I forgot about the Yellow line service beginning weekend service this past weekend as well. Hopefully the added service proves successful over the coming months.

Chicago3rd Mar 31, 2008 7:15 PM

Anyone notice a difference in loads on the incoming brownline today? I saw their 8 Car signs up yesterday.

emathias Mar 31, 2008 9:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicago3rd (Post 3452783)
Anyone notice a difference in loads on the incoming brownline today? I saw their 8 Car signs up yesterday.

Because of the change in the 3-track configuration, they're running fewer trains. The addition of the 8-cars, though, mean they're able to run the same number of total cars, though, so the loads should be about the same.

jjk1103 Mar 31, 2008 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emathias (Post 3453080)
Because of the change in the 3-track configuration, they're running fewer trains. The addition of the 8-cars, though, mean they're able to run the same number of total cars, though, so the loads should be about the same.

.....I sincerely hope the plan is to run as many 8-car trains as 6-car trains so there is a 20% increase in service........if they just slow the train intervals and add 2 cars, then we just went through a lot of grief for nothing.....

emathias Apr 1, 2008 1:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjk1103 (Post 3453376)
.....I sincerely hope the plan is to run as many 8-car trains as 6-car trains so there is a 20% increase in service........if they just slow the train intervals and add 2 cars, then we just went through a lot of grief for nothing.....

Currently it's a temporary but necessary restriction because of reduced thorough-put caused by the three-track situation.

Once they're back to four tracks, they may run the same number of trains as before the project and with more cars each, but if ridership declines because of the economy declining (or any other reason) then they probably will run fewer trains but in an eight-car configuration at rush hour. It would save them some operational costs (theoretically, at least, with fewer operators required for the same total line capacity). It would also save them the cost of additional rolling stock.

But the capacity would be there, so it'd probably be used sometimes. The length in platforms could also open the possibility of alternative routes, like a Kimball-Midway or Kimball-Oak Park type routing.

MayorOfChicago Apr 1, 2008 1:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicago3rd (Post 3452783)
Anyone notice a difference in loads on the incoming brownline today? I saw their 8 Car signs up yesterday.

They're running 33% larger trains, but with 33% less total trains. Same capacity. You'd think it would be the same.

Unfortunately, people went to the spot on the platform where they always did, so the middle areas of the trains were crushingly crowded and most people south of Belmont weren't able to board. The front and end cars had a lot of free room though. I assume people will figure this out REALLY quick. I took the Brown Line, and immediately went to the very end of the platform, since I assumed people wouldn't think to go there. There was barely anyone in my car, but the front ones were at capacity. It seemed like a vast majority of people didn't know the trains were longer. I'm guessing the average rider couldn't tell you how long the cars were historically, let alone that they're longer now.

I don't know why people don't figure this out.......I never ever went to the middle of the brown line as it was. It was always full of lazy people who just stood right by the top of the stairs.


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