He also is averaging one post per year for the last three years, so get over it. I hate to break it to you guys but there are other people named Kevin in Phoenix and other people that use PHX to fly out of. When people join they don't go back and read through all the posts to make sure nobody else is posting with a similar username. That's why they required different names. People that are on here a lot know the difference between the posters screen names. People who aren't on here a lot don't know/care.

In the end, none of us were very original with our names.

Don't apologize - I (and many here) enjoy the discussion, though you'll run into a few who get upset over posts that are longer than a URL link.

I actually wish Phoenix simply saw what other cities were doing and tried to emulate them; none of their recent or planned initiatives are as progressive as the ones being implemented across the U.S. Even the long-term transportation plans fail to include things like protected bike lanes, when that's something that needs to be addressed NOW.

There's no complete street model from another city that fails as miserably as what is being proposed on 1st Street. I can understand mediocre design or questionable choices based on inexperience or misguided intentions (for example, the ridiculously wide sidewalks on Roosevelt). But, the 1st Street plans are just flat out anti-urban. They have the funding and the entire ROW to work with - there really is no excuse for what they came up with. Sacrificing one side of parallel parking to fit in a bike lane? That's a compromise I can accept. Building 14'-17' travel lanes is beyond comprehension - the City has consistently paid lip service to the idea that they are behind initiatives like complete streets, alternative transportation options, sustainability, etc. Taking what was essentially a blank slate and creating a highway when there was room for one of the BEST examples of a well-designed urban street just flies in the face of logic.

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/b...ith-local.html

This article is essentially a how-to guide for how to make your sporting venue become an anti-urban deadzone.

The benefit of building a stadium downtown is that people will inevitably begin to search for food, drinks and entertainment before and after games - leading to a surge in retail establishments in the near vicinity. However, Phoenix and the Diamondbacks have consistently made it their policy to engage with the surrounding urban environment as little as possible. The Sunburst policy for getting traffic out of downtown immediately following games cut down on the ability for businesses to capture foot traffic of fans hanging around after.

Now, the Diamondbacks have essentially took what should have become of Jackson Street and placed it all behind the gates of the stadium. 6 or so local restaurants, a craft beer establishment, standalone retail stores including Nike, New Era and 47 Brand (as well as a Team Shop), and even a Food Truck Alley. Why would suburbanites ever explore what downtown has to offer when we spoon-feed them faux urban experiences in the safety of the stadium walls? How cool would it have been for the craft beer establishment to have opened in the Sun Merc warehouse? For the retail stores to be spread between the USAC retail annex, Summit retail space, and the Nike at the ground level of a mixed use project on the site of the former W proposal? And, lastly, for the warehouses adjacent to Cooperstown to be turned into local restaurants centered around a courtyard with Food Trucks?

Sad that some of the best urban experiences are to be had at the airport and in the confines of a baseball stadium.

For what it's worth, the food trucks will be outside Gate A which means on the plaza at the NW corner of the building, which means publicly accessible. I'm not sure that I completely agree that amenities inside the park will impact what people do before or after games. I have season tickets and I normally meet someone for dinner at a local restaurant before the game and, if in need of additional food or beverage after the game, we go out and find a bar. The concessions inside are just too expensive for situations where I have a choice. Alcohol sales end after the 7th inning and all concessions but the team shop are closed by the end of the game. I don't think that they are doing anything different than ballparks in cities where there is a lively urban scene.

The Union appears to be ready to go full swing.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7589/...52fb7100_k.jpg

Oh, okay. I took this to mean that you have to enter the stadium to order:
"Fans also will be able to choose from a variety of food trucks, which will be located outside Gate A. The team is calling this area "Food Truck Alley," and fans will be able to purchase from the food trucks after they come into the stadium."

I'm not trying to argue that there aren't many people like you who do choose to seek out local bars/restaurants, but those choices will continue to be limited. An additional brewery and 6 local restaurants would have a tremendous impact on the area surrounding the stadium, whether on Jackson of Jefferson. Instead of putting these businesses on the street and encouraging people to walk, explore and experience the immediate area, they'll be inside a walled off stadium. It's a completely suburban approach.

Local businesses didn't open up in Coors Field. They opened in the warehouses surrounding it and eventually created a vibrant district of Denver's downtown. Yankee Stadium, Coors Field, Miller Park, etc. don't have these kind of restaurant options, food trucks, or same level of retail. And, if they did - they could afford to because there's already an established urban scene surrounding them. I mean, how can you argue that shopping on Jefferson wouldn't be better if there was a Nike store? Or, eating on Jackson wouldn't be better if 6 local restaurants opened there?

I just see potential for the area around CityScape to be a shopping center in downtown, and for the area surrounding the stadium to finally become a restaurant/bar scene, so I would've liked to see more of an effort to integrate all of this into downtown. So much cool stuff is happening on the northern end, it would be great to see some good stuff happening more in the center of the city.

I think you are overstating what these food changes are. America's Taco Shop is simply replacing Macayo's, another look local Mexican place. America's passed on a downtown location when Rubio's went out of business. They had taken over Rubio's locations elsewhere. There have always been local outfits in the park. Streets of New York has been there for a few years. Should the Diamondbacks ignore local businesses and serve only shitty chain food in hopes of enlivening downtown?

I agree. I don't think this is a big deal. These aren't full blown restaurants with huge overhead. The menus are always paired down and frankly, most of them don't even taste like the real deal. I don't think this takes away at all from the development around the stadium.

I know in your idea world Jjs that you'd want these integrated as full restaurants lining the stadium with patios that can be accesses from both inside and outside, which is a great idea, but I don't think structurally it is possible give Chase Field's design.

OK, nevermind. I didn't think it was a far-fetched idea that it would be better for downtown if more restaurants and retail opened in the area surrounding the stadium, rather than inside. They're replicating a downtown, urban experience without ever needing to leave the facility. If you think it's better for downtown that people who would otherwise walk down Jefferson to buy clothes at Nike (and maybe stop for a bite at a restaurant, and maybe tell a friend about the store, etc.) can now do so behind the gates of Chase and never explore the area around it, then.. ok.

Personally, yes, I think it would be great if Chase worked with the City and its neighbors (like USAC) to stimulate the neighborhood it resides in. And, yes, if the choice is shitty food at Chase with local restaurants opening physical downtown locations, I would definitely choose that option. Serve what's convenient during the game (general concessions like every other stadium in the country), and leave breweries and food truck alleys to develop organically nearby.

PHXFLYER11 - No, that isn't what I want. If there is a need for more restaurants due to the demand of Chase visitors, then I prefer that they open in physical locations where they can be seen, accessed and enjoyed by the general public in addition to Chase patrons. The choice isn't between hypothetical stadium-lined retail or inside the stadium. It's between existing, empty spaces in the immediate area or inside the stadium. I don't see why anyone would want a brewery locate inside at Gate XYZ instead of in a warehouse... or for a Nike store to open on Mezzanine 2 instead of at Colliers Center... obviously, I am in the minority, though.

And, news:

DeSoto is scheduled to open April 11 with an impressive lineup of restaurants and a market, along with lofty future plans. It sounds amazing and exactly the kind of place that downtown needs... I hope it becomes a popular destination and thrives, but I can't help but think it may have fared better opening in a year or two once more residential has been completed nearby. Fingers crossed.

http://www.downtownphoenixjournal.co...-opening-date/

Miller Park may be the most un-urban park in the Major Leagues. It's surrounded by a sea of parking lots much like many football stadiums. It is a horrible "urban experience", but I hear a pretty good tail-gating experience... probably one of the only ones in the MLB.

I get what you're saying jjs, but I think you're slightly misguided here. I think it may actually benefit the surrounding area, assuming these attractions at the ballpark draw in a bit more attendance each game, maybe that will have a trickle down effect to the rest of the area.

Like it was mentioned, these local businesses that get into ballparks and airports are really just pared down over-priced satellite businesses. A unique money-making opportunity for them. It's not like they were choosing between setting up shop in a warehouse OR the ballpark, and Chase Field swooped in and gobbled them up at the detriment to the neighborhood.

I don't think these will draw more fans to the game. :) And, how could there be a trickle-down effect if everything is satisfied within the stadium? Unique, local restaurants? Check. Breweries and bars? Check. Retail? Check. What is the motivation to then go somewhere else? And, even if there is a trickle down effect, wouldn't it be more pronounced if the Nike store opened in the USAC retail annex? Where customers would pass Coach's Corner, Colliers, and be in direct view of all the 1st St restaurants?

I mean, it's like saying the food court at the Convention Center was a great idea. Maybe not all of those restaurants would have opened elsewhere downtown, but at least the conventioneers would be more likely to eat, drink, etc. throughout the city.

Anyway, obviously nobody agrees, and I don't want to ignite another riot.

I hate to sound like a grinch of sorts, but I thought the General Discussion Forum was designed for many of the back and forth topics that are currently being discussed. Can we save the bitching and moaning for that forum and keep this one specifically for developments?

I think what we are trying to say as these are not competition. Nor are they are reason why someone would go to a game that otherwise wouldn't. These have completely different cost models and operation models that real restaurants. They are stands with very limited menus with the goal of providing better food for people in attendance, with a premium being paid for that.

Look at Fracture Prune for example. They have a location inside US Airways Center but are opening one at City Scape. That shows that the two location are independent and one does not effect the business of the other since the actual time the restaurants inside are open is very minimal.

No, that forum was for topics not related to news/development. The ongoing conversation was related to the article I posted regarding the new offerings at Chase Field. But, yes, I said in my last post I wasn't going to continue repeating my same point.

I posted all of the following news/info that people are free to discuss if the current conversation bores them. Otherwise, some people obviously prefer to have a discussion going than a dead forum.

1) DeSoto opens April 11
2) Portland on the Park breaks ground in April
3) Foundry Hotel renovations set for completion in the fall
4) 2nd and Moreland condos to break ground this spring
5) Portland 2nd condos have been proposed
6) 4th/McKinley construction seems to be underway
7) 1st Street "improvements" are set and are a disaster

The Nike "store" is a booth about 20 feet wide that has previously sold hats and pennants. Not going to threaten any outside businesses.

I'm pretty sure I know what that forum was designed for since I was the one who recommended it be created initially. As someone who USED to post here (but still reads posts), it would be nice to read about developments that don't always end in something pessimistic. Just my two cents.

Let's say people go to a game and enjoy some of the new food options and amenities. This might make them go to more games because they had so much fun. Then, they invite friends and they have fun. If there are XX new fans a month going to the games in this fashion, and X% do something different outside the stadium before and/or after the game, that's the trickle down effect.

But anyway, thanks for that list. I just swung through the northern part of downtown after a meeting and everything looked great. There was a ton of activity. I was mostly going to see if Union or Portland @ the Park were showing any kind of construction activity (I thought P@tP was supposed to be breaking ground March 25), which they weren't... but there was some other minor stuff I noticed:

-Those historic houses on the east side of 2nd Ave between Roosevelt and McKinley had some activity going on. Looked like the carriage houses had further renovations done (I didn't remember them looking so good before), and some walls and other work to the yards was happening.

-The empty lot on the northeast corner of 2nd Ave & Fillmore (across from the Lofts at Fillmore) was fenced off and what looked like an electrical contractor's truck was pulling out of the driveway onto 2nd Ave. Is this lot planned for anything? It's pretty small.

I only drove around a few streets near Roosevelt, but in general, the minor construction stuffs happening around northern downtown, combined with my imagining all of the imminent more major projects coming, along with the great historic stock that's left made me think things are looking up.

Well, I don't know what you recommended, but the general thread says it's for:
Phoenix's built environment, its politics, its history, its people, your or other peoples' experiences in it

Articles about new restaurants, retail, food trucks, etc. don't seem to fit into that category, but if they do, I'll post them there instead.

If you want to read positive commentary, see the list I just posted. The details I provided were supportive for all except the 1st Street "improvements." If something shitty is proposed, it should be discussed - we should all expect quality projects. And, if there is something said that proves the negative impression isn't warranted (like the new offerings at Chase), then it's good to know that, too.

Anyway, that's that... hopefully another project is announced soon or at least more details about some of the proposals.

Those houses are probably the ones MetroWest was rehabbing, I assume. I wonder if they ever built the 3rd house they were supposed to in one of the empty lots nearby?

Haven't heard anything about 2nd Ave/Fillmore, but MetroWest told me that they had some other projects in the works for the area. Maybe that lot is for one of those? I'd love to see more of their infill work like he Townhomes on 3rd.

Did you catch the patio at Carly's? Anyone know if other restaurants plan patios? Given that was a specific reason for the awkwardly large sidewalks, I hope places like Short Leash built onto them.

Is the Arcade Bar and Boutique opened yet in the building across from Moira Sushi on McKinley?

Oh, and 1 more item for my list:
- The synagogue at 333 E Portland is being renovated by Levine. It's planned to be turned into a synagogue, Holocaust Museum, and community center.

I didn't notice the 3rd house, but maybe it's coming with the new activity. Yeah, it would be nice if MetroWest would continue with additional projects. I really do love small infill like the Townhomes on 3rd.

Don't know about the Arcade Bar ("Cobra Bar" I think?), I didn't get over that way. I also didn't see Carly's patio today, but I did see it a few days ago and I thought it looked fine. Although like you, or someone else, said, it takes up a lot of the space between the treeline and the building, so peds would probably have to walk on the street side of the sidewalk.