nice renders.
som is the best, shop the most practical, h3 looks like it continues to be too much of a rat maze and dsr is a wildcard. |
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Then there's the cost issue. It would not surprise me if it proved cheaper to construct an arena and a station on separate sites rather than demolish and rebuild MSG in its place while thousands of travelers use the station underneath. The issue is not whether an arena and train station can theoretically coexist (of course they can) but whether that combination can be built on the MSG/Penn site, with architectural dignity, for a reasonable cost, within a reasonable timeframe. |
After over 50 years of scurrying, we may yet live to enter the city like gods once again.
http://therealdeal.com/blog/2013/06/...t-to-10-years/ "In the latest match at Madison Square Garden, City Council Speaker Christine Quinn nabbed the winning shot against the Dolan family, who control the stadium, Crain’s reported. Two City Council committees approved a 10-year permit for MSG, with the zoning and franchise subcommittee approving the measure by a vote of 7-0. The full land use committee followed suit, voting for the measure 18-1. The Dolan family hoped to be granted the permit in perpetuity, arguing that such an arrangement is the case for other athletic facilities in the city. But civic groups fought against the measure, arguing instead for a long-term permit that might nudge negotiations over relocating the arena so that Penn Station might be rebuilt and expanded. The City Planning Commission previously called for a 15-year term on the permit, but Quinn, along with Manhattan Borough President Scott Stringer and a group of activists, reduced the timeframe to 10 years. “There is a lot of work ahead of us to build the train station NYC desperately needs, but today the City Council and Speaker Quinn in particular have joined in that effort and taken a very important step forward.” Raju Mann, director of planning at the Municipal Art Society, who was present for the votes, told Crain’s. A spokeswoman for MSG declined to comment to Crain’s." |
Well, she's got my vote. :tup:
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I hope NYC can keep this momentum! |
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They wisely knew NYC is ever-changing and the situation at Penn Station and MSG would need reviewing by a future generation. I mean, one can imagine a bizarro alternate-reality where train usage continues to suffer, public transit is unfashionable, cars totally dominate NCY, Roller Derby is the most popular sport in the world, and MSG and the city are instead cooperating to shrink Penn Station and give MSG a fancy new underground parking garage. :) |
First of all that SOM rendering is just flat out amazing. With the high speed rail boom coming I certainly hope something like that gets built some place somewhere.
With that being said, looking at the renderings, it appears the tracks go East/West underneath MSG. If that is indeed the case, the solution to me seems to be to demolish 2 Penn Plaza next to MSG and construct a new Penn Station there. This would solve two problems at once because it would create a new Penn Station while creating a new eastern entrance to the Garden. If the tracks don't go under 2 Penn, simply build the station there and construct tunnels to the existing area. As for the tenants that would be lost with 2 Penn, it would seem possible to build 4 smaller buildings wedged in between the Garden and the corners of the block in similar fashion to the Barclays Center. But with Hudson Rail Yards and the New WTC looking for tenants it may not be needed. I know I am the only one who thinks this but I like MSG and I like its design. Yes it was a complete shame they tore down old penn just like they tore down the original MSGs. But now that the current Garden is there, it would be a shame to lose it as well. And yes, the exterior can be made to look nice... http://www.ellerbebecket.com/uploads...xt_aerial1.jpg |
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http://ny.curbed.com/uploads/MSGMarquee.jpg http://ny.curbed.com/uploads/MSGMarquee.jpg |
While the Garden is historic.. lets not forget.. it's not the original Garden. It's the 4th location for the Madison Square Garden.
Penn Station is a monstrosity and needs to go. There is plenty of nice options for an arena elsewhere. This should definitely be redeveloped. However.. it was stupid to wait until after they began a $1 billion remodeling project to be underway to limit their license. |
:cheers:
The Dolans better hurry up, find a new site and build fast, 2023 isn't that far off! |
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I think the Dolans were under the impression that spending a boatload of money would all but assure them a long-term renewal, if not one into perpetuity as they requested. |
Madison Square Garden gets 10 years to find new location
Just up on CNN. Some main points:
======================================== Madison Square Garden, one of the world's iconic sports and entertainment arenas, has been given a decade to relocate after a vote by the New York City Council on Wednesday amid efforts to renovate the equally well-known Penn Station that sits below it. The council voted to approve a "special permit" that will allow the arena to operate for 10 years while its management seeks to relocate, according to a news release. The 47-1 vote comes after years of advocacy from city officials and independent groups who have sought to renovate and expand the bustling Pennsylvania Station. Madison Square Garden's 50-year land-use permit expired in January "Imagine 220 mph bullet trains that sweep you to D.C. or Boston in 90 minutes or less. These plans are on the table, but they can only be realized with a modern, renovated Penn Station," said Manhattan Borough President and city comptroller candidate Scott M. Stringer. "That is not possible as long as the Garden sits squarely on top of the nation's busiest rail transit hub." ============================== Dominique Debucquoy-Dodley, CNN, http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/25/us/new...html?hpt=us_c1 |
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I hope scott stringer understands that the disastrous public/private clusterf**k of state agencies and private companies that own the NEC is the real reason why 220 MPH trains are out of the question.
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..and, of course, I'm holding out for Elon Musk's Hyperloop. :cheers::P |
This is great news. Penn Station is an embarrassing pit and needs to go. MSG is an arena for sports and concerts. Arenas can go anywhere as is proved in other cities... or in NYC: Yankee Stadium, Giants Stadium, Flushing Meadows, etc. get sold out all the time and they're not in Manhattan. I'm sure if the Dolans can afford to spend "a billion dollars" refurbishing MSG, they can afford to finance a new arena pretty much anywhere they choose.
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The hyperloop is nonsesne. Do you know how difficult it would be to maintain a near perfect vacuum in a series of tubes thousands of miles long? It's difficult to maintain a perfect vacuum in highly expensive and complicated ovens of just a few cubic yards in volume.
I'm actually on the NEC as I type this. Between private lands foolishly allowed right next to the tracks (preventing expansion) the quagmire of public and private entities involved in it's ownership, etc it would be very expensive and time consuming to do so. As anti-big government as I am, with things like infrastructure you need a consolidated agency that both implement improvements across state lines. Even continual improvements made by Amtrak wont solve the problems of antiquated centenary, lane-constrained lines and tracks not designed to take 200MPH + trains. Given the continued increase in road congestion, high speed trains make more sense (assuming they can keep costs to a reasonable level) Quote:
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Would it be technically easier to maintain some vacuum in a subterranean tunnel? I believe Musk's hyper loop is envisioned to be deep below ground using modern tunnel boring technology to create straight "shots" and minimize right of way issues.
We'll know more in august when musk provides more information on his idea. |
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