SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/index.php)
-   City Discussions (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=24)
-   -   How Is Covid-19 Impacting Life in Your City? (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=242036)

austlar1 Mar 5, 2020 9:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gantz (Post 8852071)
Well, the number of cases in the US is off by at least a factor of 20 if not more. The reason for the low number is simply because they are not testing, not because people are not getting sick. Even as we speak, there are people currently in hospitals, who exhibit all of the symptoms, who tested negative for flu and strep, and they are STILL not getting tested. This is the case in NYC. The number of deaths is also underestimated, as they just put "cause of death: pneumonia" without testing for covid-19 for 99.99% of cases.
Also, I don't know about you, but if HIV spread via air I'd be freaking out....

^^^^This!! Thank you, Gantz. I don't want to start a flame over the severity of Covid 19, but the research out of China suggests that 20% of the known cases are considered "severe" enough to require hospitalization. Probably 10% of the hospitalized patients die. Most of the deaths are patients over 50 with additional health factors, but other hospitalized patients are often gravely ill for a period of two to four weeks. Even the less severe cases that don't require hospitalization can be quite incapacitating with high fever and severe bronchial symptoms that last around two weeks. Keep in mind that even "low risk" infected persons such as children require a minimum 14 day quarantine (usually at home) with minimal exposure to other persons. People that want to compare this to a flu epidemic are whistling in the dark.

dave8721 Mar 5, 2020 9:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by austlar1 (Post 8852080)
^^^^This!! Thank you, Gantz. I don't want to start a flame over the severity of Covid 19, but the research out of China suggests that 20% of the known cases are considered "severe" enough to require hospitalization. Probably 10% of the hospitalized patients die. Most of the deaths are patients over 50 with additional health factors, but other hospitalized patients are often gravely ill for a period of two to four weeks. Even the less severe cases that don't require hospitalization can be quite incapacitating with high fever and severe bronchial symptoms that last around two weeks. Keep in mind that even "low risk" infected persons such as children require a minimum 14 day quarantine (usually at home) with minimal exposure to other persons. People that want to compare this to a flu epidemic are whistling in the dark.

And even if you are young and fit, odds are you interact with people who aren't. Do you want to kill them with your virus? My in-laws who generally watch my kids a lot are over 70 and one has a compromised immune system due to cancer treatments. They would be pretty much goners if I brought that virus around them.

iheartthed Mar 5, 2020 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gantz (Post 8852071)
Well, the number of cases in the US is off by at least a factor of 20 if not more. The reason for the low number is simply because they are not testing, not because people are not getting sick. Even as we speak, there are people currently in hospitals, who exhibit all of the symptoms, who tested negative for flu and strep, and they are STILL not getting tested. This is the case in NYC. The number of deaths is also underestimated, as they just put "cause of death: pneumonia" without testing for covid-19 for 99.99% of cases. For people who can recover on their own, the doctors flat out say it to your face "We have ruled out everything else, I am 99% sure you have it, but we can't test you, so just self-quarantine yourself for a couple of weeks in your own house".
Also, I don't know about you, but if HIV spread via air I'd be freaking out....

There are absolutely way more people infected than is officially being reported. They had to retroactively update someone's cause of death in either Oregon or Washington because they realized it was COVID-19 after the fact. But the person died before they even suspected that there were people in the country who were infected other than those people evacuated from China and Japan.

Someone also posted a story on NYC Reddit about having flu-like symptoms after coming back from Japan in February, but the hospital was not authorized to test him for it by the CDC since Japan wasn't considered an outbreak zone at the time. They did rule out the flu and some other stuff, then released him. He said the hospital told him he could use public transit to go home, even though covid-19 was still a possibility. The day after he went to the hospital, Japan because one of the outbreak countries. His story was verified by the local news media.

And in early February I had a cough for about a week that I think was a mild case of bronchitis, which I've never had before. But the other day I was reading a summary of a mild covid-19 case that was observed on the Japanese cruise ship, and the symptoms were extremely similar to what I experienced. My symptoms were extremely mild so I didn't think much of it at the time. But, considering I've never had bronchitis before, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that I had a mild case of it.

Handro Mar 5, 2020 10:22 PM

Anecdotally, my girlfriend has been sick this week and went to the doctor. She has basic cold/flu symptoms (sinus problems, sneezing, general malaise). The doctor didn't suggest testing for coronavirus. I don't know if that is based on her professional medical opinion or a larger issue with the frequency and/or availability of testing, but it did seem odd that it wouldn't just be an automatic thing to test anyone who comes in reporting cold/flu symptoms.

austlar1 Mar 5, 2020 11:21 PM

Houston now has two confirmed Coronavirus cases and a third one in suburban Fort Bend County. A dozen or so people are in voluntary quarantine in Fort Bend County.

SignalHillHiker Mar 5, 2020 11:33 PM

Minimal impact thus far, though our media - like everywhere else - is all about it.

The Mayor has said thus far there hasn't been any impact in terms of importing goods (which is, basically everything except chicken, turnip, potatoes, and seafood) to the island.

The Premier (equivalent of Governor, if you're American) has said the province is prepared should coronavirus be detected here. The most likely ways that could happen, for us, are unscheduled landings of international flights (Come From Away is set here, but it's a weekly occurrence with at least one or two planes), or via the ferry from Canada. There are detection and isolation measures in place at both.

There are almost no face masks left on the island so the health authorities are begging the public not to buy them and let healthcare professionals use them instead.

Lots of local seafood is no longer being purchased by China, and a major seafood expo in Boston (our most important one of the year) has been delayed. That's actually devastating, but mostly for rural communities, it's not a major deal in the capital city.

Oil dropping is lethal for us. We're very near bankruptcy anyway, and our budget for 2020 is oil at $63/barrel. It's currently barely above $50. Every dollar difference is about $25 million less to our government.

No students at local schools applied for exchange programs in China. This has caused a bit of a diplomatic incident because usually we send lots, China has still sent lots to us, and they've asked our government what's up.

Certain things are delayed. For example, we can't get monthly public transit passes in April because they're made in China and that factory is shut down.

There has been some racism towards Asians at the city's university campus, enough that the President of the university had to go to the media to tell people to go fuck themselves and grow up.

ChrisLA Mar 5, 2020 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Handro (Post 8852161)
Anecdotally, my girlfriend has been sick this week and went to the doctor. She has basic cold/flu symptoms (sinus problems, sneezing, general malaise). The doctor didn't suggest testing for coronavirus. I don't know if that is based on her professional medical opinion or a larger issue with the frequency and/or availability of testing, but it did seem odd that it wouldn't just be an automatic thing to test anyone who comes in reporting cold/flu symptoms.

My wife was sick with a really bad respiratory infection a few weeks ago, and so did my 3 year old son. It was so bad that when she try and stand up she had problems breathing. I took her to the doctor and basically didn’t do anything but gave her a prescription. I personally think the virus has been here for a while undetected because the medical community has not done any widespread testing. My wife and her mom are convinced they had it simply by the symptoms they had. I can’t say for sure if’s that was the case but who know really unless they been tested.

SIGSEGV Mar 6, 2020 2:50 AM

everyone in my office got a delivery of purell today, which was nice I guess. No fewer people on the bus in the morning or anything like that though...

pdxtex Mar 6, 2020 3:17 AM

Portland-Dispatches from the hot zone!! So far the kahrona-cough appears to be less cataclysmic than we all thought. I don't doubt it's still serious but the PNW hasn't burned itself to the ground yet. Preppers cleaned out Costco of paper good and cleaner but they were still happy to paw over the free samples and there were MOUNDS of vegetables. People are still dining out but also must be working from home. Traffic is light and public spaces are a ghost town. I've been through a dengue fever outbreak in the jungle, a meningococcal disease outbreak in college and now this thing...weird times man. The conspiracy theorist in me is intrigued by all the fanfare but the pragmatist isn't impressed. 4000 dead on a planet of 7 billion??? I understand new is scary but 40,000 Americans die in car crashes every year and nobody gives a f#ck...

dave8721 Mar 6, 2020 3:28 AM

Aside from Ultra being cancelled (which brings 100s of thousands of visitors), local companies are feeling the hurt as well. Royal Caribbean Cruise lines has seen its stock drop 50% this month. Carnival Cruise lines stock lost about 50% as well. Local airline Spirit Air has seen its stock drop from 44.58 on 2/13 to 21.54 today. Basically every local tourism based business has flatlined.

AviationGuy Mar 6, 2020 3:53 AM

I've seen one person with a mask (an older guy).

pdxtex Mar 6, 2020 4:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisLA (Post 8852285)
My wife was sick with a really bad respiratory infection a few weeks ago, and so did my 3 year old son. It was so bad that when she try and stand up she had problems breathing. I took her to the doctor and basically didn’t do anything but gave her a prescription. I personally think the virus has been here for a while undetected because the medical community has not done any widespread testing. My wife and her mom are convinced they had it simply by the symptoms they had. I can’t say for sure if’s that was the case but who know really unless they been tested.

but if it's as virulent as "they" say, you didn't get sick...its still normal flu season too..

10023 Mar 6, 2020 7:07 AM

I’ve been working too hard to notice. Plan to swing by Borough Market tomorrow though so will see. Otherwise I haven’t been out and it’s seemed quiet, but the weather has been truly horrendous so that’s probably the main driver.

Pedestrian Mar 6, 2020 7:55 AM

Quite a few upcoming conventions and trade shows in San Francisco have been cancelled. The hotel/tourist industry is being decimated. My best friend, who works at a major hotel, had his hours basically cut to zero and he is applying for unemployment. I suspect the unemployment office is going to be very busy. I'm not in the city right now but he tells me the major commercial streets are much emptier than usual and businesses are closed or have shortened hours.

Then of course, the news has reported the Grand Princess cruise ship being held off the coast but likely soon to dock in SF. I have not read what they are going to do with the passengers some of whom are going to test positive and others of whom may have been exposed but haven't yet developed a positive test. I doubt the US authorities will emulate the Japanese who have been widely criticized for keeping everybody aboard the Diamond Princess, leading to many additional exposures and some deaths. But the question becomes where will they quarantine the people. The nearest military base, Travis AFB, has already been used and I don't know if it has additional capacity.

Pedestrian Mar 6, 2020 8:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisLA (Post 8852285)
My wife was sick with a really bad respiratory infection a few weeks ago, and so did my 3 year old son. It was so bad that when she try and stand up she had problems breathing. I took her to the doctor and basically didn’t do anything but gave her a prescription. I personally think the virus has been here for a while undetected because the medical community has not done any widespread testing. My wife and her mom are convinced they had it simply by the symptoms they had. I can’t say for sure if’s that was the case but who know really unless they been tested.

You will soon be able to get them tested if they still want to be. The PCR test they will be able to get, though, will reveal current infection only, not past infection (you need a serology test which is under development but not yet ready for that). In fact, that's how they are determining now if people are safe to leave quarantine: A series of negative tests.

If she thought she had coronavirus, I hope she self-quarantined for 14 days. If she didn't, I hope she didn't really think she had "it" because she would have been exposing others as would anybody today who suspects they have coronavirus. And yes, the coronavirus illness apparently does last quite a while--typically 10-14 days (based on what Chinese patients are describing)--so if she was sick for only a couple of days that makes it very unlikely she had "it".

Pedestrian Mar 6, 2020 8:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by austlar1 (Post 8852080)
^^^^This!! Thank you, Gantz. I don't want to start a flame over the severity of Covid 19, but the research out of China suggests that 20% of the known cases are considered "severe" enough to require hospitalization. Probably 10% of the hospitalized patients die. Most of the deaths are patients over 50 with additional health factors, but other hospitalized patients are often gravely ill for a period of two to four weeks. Even the less severe cases that don't require hospitalization can be quite incapacitating with high fever and severe bronchial symptoms that last around two weeks. Keep in mind that even "low risk" infected persons such as children require a minimum 14 day quarantine (usually at home) with minimal exposure to other persons. People that want to compare this to a flu epidemic are whistling in the dark.

One virologist was on TV today saying he thought most Americans--in fact most people around the world--would eventually be exposed. In the US, with an overall mortality rate of even 1% (less than half what we are seeing in China which takes into account a large number of undiagnosed cases there and here and better average medical care here) and a population of 327 million, that's over 3 million deaths.

I am 74. I don't mind admitting I am pretty worried (and I'm a doctor--I am realistic about these things). At least one participant here has posted he is not bothered by the likelihood of millions of older people dying--we are an expense for social benefit systems. But the prospect isn't alluring.

SIGSEGV Mar 6, 2020 8:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 8852719)
One virologist was on TV today saying he thought most Americans--in fact most people around the world--would eventually be exposed. In the US, with an overall mortality rate of even 1% (less than half what we are seeing in China which takes into account a large number of undiagnosed cases there and here and better average medical care here) and a population of 327 million, that's over 3 million deaths.

I am 74. I don't mind admitting I am pretty worried (and I'm a doctor--I am realistic about these things). At least one participant here has posted he is not bothered by the likelihood of millions of older people dying--we are an expense for social benefit systems. But the prospect isn't alluring.

Better average medical care or not, is the throughput of our medical system better than China? I have no idea...

Pedestrian Mar 6, 2020 8:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV (Post 8852720)
Better average medical care or not, is the throughput of our medical system better than China? I have no idea...

I'm sure the government elite get medical care as good any in the world. There are many excellent Chinese doctors.

But we are talking about what's available for the average man on the street.

Quote:

With inconsistent standards between rural areas and the big cities, the health care system in China has been rated as 144th in the world by the World Health Organization. The country spends 5.5% of its GDP on health and has a relatively low number of doctors (1.6 per 1,000 population). With the largest economy on the planet, it attracts workers from all over the world: many of these find the right standard of care in the major hospitals of Beijing and Shanghai, but it’s useful to take a companion who can translate for you if you don’t speak a local language such as Cantonese, Hanyu, or Putonghua.

U.S. and other international hospitals offer a better level of care and English-speaking staff. However in rural areas, medical centres can be sparse and poorly funded, and staffed by staff speaking one of the languages of China. Newcomers might want to consider comprehensive private medical insurance cover from a reputable broker or company before they enter the country.
https://www.aetnainternational.com/e...-far-east.html

That's what I've read. China is nominally a Communist country so we assume the government provides health care. But as in the old Soviet Union, the government care for "regular" citizens, especially outside major cities, has been pretty rudimentary and middle class people often go to private clinics and hospitals and pay out of pocket. This is one reason China has a high savings rate--people budget for such expenses.

In this case the government has built prefab hospitals as we've seen and brought in thousands of "military doctors" to Wuhan and possibly other centers of illness. I'm putting that in quotes because I doubt China can have thousands of fully trained (by western standards) physicians to spare for this work and I'm equally sure they aren't going to strip their military of medical capability. I suspect these "military doctors" are much like we call "medics" in many cases--people with a few months of practical medical training (the Soviets also used such people). In the early days of this epidemic we all saw photos and video of people in waiting rooms and hallways with IVs running. The medical system, however good it may be in normal times, was clearly overwhelmed. Perhaps that has now been improved. Hard to know. And the US system is vulnerable to being overhelmed also if we get sick people in the numbers experienced in Wuhan. But that won't be the case for a while.

Finally, there's this:

Quote:

One Doctor’s Life on the Coronavirus Front Lines. ‘If We Fail, What Happens to You All?’
Short on supplies and sleep, medical staff are being stretched to the limit to stop a pandemic no one fully understands
March 4, 2020 12:54 pm ET

Driving one evening in Wuhan, China, last month, Zhang Xiaochun pulled her car to the side of the road. She was on the verge of a breakdown.

She’d been working nonstop for days at the center of China’s coronavirus outbreak, where she is a doctor. Both of her parents had Covid-19, the disease caused by the virus, as did many of her colleagues. The number of sick and dying was climbing. And on this day, Dr. Zhang had forgotten about her 9-year-old daughter, who was home alone and scared—and who, at that moment, wasn’t picking up the phone.

Dr. Zhang’s eyes welled up, but she had no energy to cry. “My tears wouldn’t flow,” she said in an interview on Feb. 18.

Around the world, doctors are being stretched to the limit. Short on supplies and sleep, they’re being asked to stop a global pandemic that no one fully understands. Adding to that strain, they’re risking their own health while they diagnose cases and attend to sick patients—along with the health of their spouses, children and other close family members.

With the virus now growing more quickly outside China than inside, it’s a problem other countries will increasingly face.

In China, more than 3,000 doctors have been infected, according to official data, and at least 22 have died. Some medical professionals believe the numbers are even higher, adding uncertainty for doctors elsewhere confronting the virus. Untold numbers of family members have fallen ill.

Chinese doctors are working shifts of 10 hours or more. Many stay in the same hazmat suits the entire time, without food, water or bathroom breaks. Disrobing to eat or go to the bathroom could risk exposure. Medical workers are requesting psychological help to try to deal with the stress.

Infectious-disease doctors around the world are trained to handle highly contagious illnesses, and know the risks. But the current outbreak is spreading so quickly that it’s forcing hospitals to deploy staff with limited experience in infectious diseases and, sometimes, insufficient gear to keep them safe. Some hospitals can’t find enough staff willing to take on the risk . . . .
https://www.wsj.com/articles/if-we-f...&page=1&pos=18

ocman Mar 6, 2020 1:08 PM

Reported cases of COVID-19 is like a cockroach. If you see even one in your house, you should just assume there are at least 20 more that are hiding about. I’m in Santa Clara, the epicenter of California’s outbreak. Nothing’s changed. The shelves at Safeway are still full.

Pedestrian Mar 6, 2020 3:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ocman (Post 8852777)
Reported cases of COVID-19 is like a cockroach. If you see even one in your house, you should just assume there are at least 20 more that are hiding about. I’m in Santa Clara, the epicenter of California’s outbreak. Nothing’s changed. The shelves at Safeway are still full.

I'd be careful in that Safeway even in normal times. I too am forced to shop in Safeway ('cause of the limited number of other options where I am right now) and more times than not I find overaged and expired items still on the shelf (not to mention the "pink slime" of a few years ago they were putting in their meat).


All times are GMT. The time now is 8:02 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.