that is incorrect and the burden remains on everyone anyway.

it's not the burden of your fussiness about wearing masks, its because the problem is the vaxxed catching variants and related long haul issues.

which ups insurance costs for everyone.

i don't want to pay when your mom has to take you to the doctor because you wouldn't wear a mask, and even if you are vaxxed you don't want to maybe be wheezing for a year and brain fog or whatever.

that's why masking indoors and in metros should remain for now.

no question it sux, but you gotta keep your big boy pants on about it for awhile longer and respect private business wishes when they require a mask. we'll get there.

as for the unvaxxed, raising the social pressure, offering incentives and limiting where they can go without a mask is about all you can do i think. and that is indeed what is happening. it seems to be slowly but surely working on the stragglers. it will take time to counter the massive russian military disinfo propaganda machine, but we are winning that battle, although its unfortunately now at a relative snail's pace compared to this past spring.

Public health has to be the purview of the executive--state legislatures are only in session a relatively small fraction of the time, in some states every other year, and for good reason, executives have wide latitude to enact public health measures.

Now if those public health measures were unnecessary or ineffective (like if Pritzker decided to quarantine Peoria for no reason), then they certainly could be successfully challenged in court, so there is a check on this.

The legislature can probably in most states overrule the governor if they feel like it once they're in session. Though that doesn't always work out for them, as in Arkansas: https://apnews.com/article/health-ar...6d8b3cf4039404

Just before the pandemic, my wife (who has worn glasses since she was a kid) finally talked me into getting glasses. If you wear glasses, a mask isn't fun. Even with a mask that has a metal wire at the top, glasses still fog. You need something pushing the mask outward from the bottom, creating an opening for the hot humid breaths to escape. Then the mask is useless against COVID-19. I use the button holes in my sweaters or the space between the buttons on the shirt to hold my glasses and I'm sure Lauren wanted me to be bespectacled like her. Then you add the acne some people are reporting and that hot humid breath trapped over your face on a hot day. I can see why some people would shop at other stores, cross county lines or a state line, if your city is at a state line. If you're fully vaccinated, you can be comfortable, use your glasses, have easy-to-hear discussions, and some shopping trips can take a while. Again, we have a young son (too young to get vaccinated) and will mask for him. I don't want to force others around me to mask and I'm sure we will want to go mask free when our son is vaccinated.

I like the idea of allowing businesses to set their own masking policy and I like the idea of businesses allowing customers to decide for themselves what level of risk they want to take. That is what we have in Georgia / Suburban Atlanta. This week, I've seen store and restaurant employees maskless and maybe a quarter-to-a-third of customers maskless. I think all big box hardware stores require masks? Other places don't want to lose valuable and hard-to-replace employees by requiring them to enforce it and do you risk losing customers? Here, the Governor won't allow cities or counties to pass mask mandates. While it's not allowed to be discussed in detail, in this thread, I do think this will become a big issue in 2022 and 2024 if people are still wearing masks. I'm not allowed to go into detail on that (in this thread) and I won't. This could be a strategy to attract jobs and population growth, which I think is the more interesting side of the discussion? It would be interesting to see if this impacts decisions to move down here? I'm sure the freedom to go mask free most of the time and the images of full hospitals, here in the South, impact decisions to both move here and stay away. There are a growing number of non-vaccinated people who believe if they become sick, they can just take monoclonal antibodies and be cured instantly. They often talk of the brand taken by a certain politician (won't name the person here to avoid politics). With insurance now talking about not covering COVID-19 hospital visits for the unvaccinated (I'm sure that treatment also won't be covered), we could see a big rise in people getting the vaccine.

Now, for what I really want to talk about:
Knowing this will be around for many years / decades and there will always be people missing boosters, not taking the vaccine, new variants, etc., at what point do we have enough data to know how to expand our hospitals? I'm expecting a hospital construction boom from this. They need to know how many beds, do you make it flexible space that can become ICU space or something else (as hospitalizations rise and fall), and do architects, tech companies, and hospitals research how to create spaces where more can be done with less hospital staff? What would that look like? Will cities with better hospitals become bigger magnets for population growth and businesses? Could we see noteworthy hospitals on the list with incentives, ready-to-go sites/spaces, educated workforce, transportation, etc., in attracting jobs? Not just a 50-bed branch or mini-hospital, but big hospitals and university research medical centers. Think of the impact on smaller metros that don't have big hospitals and research-intensive university medical centers. Think of the impact on smaller metros that do have a university research medical center. Could that decide the next round of up-and-coming cities and fast-growing cities?

It's not hospital space that's necessarily the issue (you can get creative with where you put patients, put tents in parking lots, etc.), but we already have a shortage of health professionals and the ability to train them. So really, we should be expanding medical schools I guess...

I bet you can cope. I've worn glasses for 60 years and I can. Just put the mask on first, then the glasses. Or get some anti-fog stuff from someplace:

https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/ser...524778/enhance

The point of mask mandates, as it has been for over a year, is that the best masks (KN95, N95) protect the wearer to some degree but the cloth masks most people wear primarily protect others by reducing the emission of aerosols by the wearer. Therefore, your protection depends on other people being masked and other people may not be sufficiently motivated to protect you unless the government or the proprietor tells them they have to. Other people can be uncaring sh*ts.

There will be no hospital building boom. None. No one--not the private owners of most hospitals, not the local governments who own others--can afford to build and especially not to staff hospital capacity way beyond what will be used under normal circumstances. Hospitals are incredibly expensive. California has been mandating the construction of new hospitals that meet earthquake codes that require them to survive and remain in operation for the maximal predicted earthquake. San Francisco has built a couple recently to comply with this and they each cost billions of $ with a B. The new acute care building at SF General with just over 400 beds was $1.02 billion and the new Pacific Medical Center with only 274 beds was $2.1 billion. Next comes the University of California at San Francisco Medical Center rebuild for an estimated $1.5 billion. None of these projects will expand the capacity of the hospitals--just make them withstand earthquakes.

That's one thing if those beds are in use. It's another if they are just going to sit empty waiting for the next pandemic in who knows how many years.

And yes, this pandemic will die away. Every pandemic in human history has. Before there were vaccines, everybody just got infected and the survivors were immune. Now some people can get vaccinated and can avoid infection. But one way or another enough people eventually become immune that the case loads decline and fade into the general background of human sickness.

No, my protection depends on the vaccine that was scientifically developed and proven to be effective.

As I've previously described, you can't expand medical schools without expanding academic medical centers and the teaching staff for them. And, again, it would be incredibly expensive. The median cost to the student of 4 years of medical school is $250,000 but that, surprisingly, isn't what the training actually costs to provide. I wasn't able to find the estimated actual cost of providing this education but I did find an estimate of the cost of post-graduate training (and in a sense that might be cheaper since residents earn their keep to some extent by providing patient care):

https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002...14)00596-8/pdf

These are annual costs in 2014.

Your best protection depends on both and if you were vaccinated several months ago the vaccine is probably not much more than 80% effective. Being in an environment where everyone is masked adds an increment to that (no one is sure how large an increment but just about all epidemiologist and virologists--follow the science, remember--agree it's something).

I'll never understand why you and people like you insist that one and only one means of protection is good enough when there are additive layers of protection that can be used and they aren't that hard.

If you chose to be stubborn, fine, but I want the city or management to keep you out of stores where I have to shop because there's some chance you will infect me.

I am more sympathetic to urbanpolitician's argument now that he wants to get infected because he assumes the infection will be mild and he will have stronger immunity afterwards. That's actually true and if you want to go around unmasked trying to get infected, have at it. I even considered that if I get infected, at least there's this upside. But I don't think you have the right to infect others as you might do if allowed in stores and other places without a mask. Some of the people in those stores might have immune compromise or other wise be especially vulnerable as well.

Then you get a booster when they're available...which I intend to. Asking everyone to wear a mask indefinitely is not the solution and I am glad all but a handful of virtue signaling cities haven't slid back into these mandates. I think people like my mother and mother-in-law should probably wear them in public with Delta on the rampage but at their own discretion. I see this dragging on well into next year. Today it's Delta, tomorrow, it will be Lambda or something else and goal posts are constantly being moved.

The panic over variants is bullshit. “Long haul” Covid is bullshit. If we are not there now then we never will be. You and Pedestrian can hide at home for as long as you like.

Posting this here and in the CE thread. It’s not even clear whether boosters are the right approach or if everyone just should be getting Covid once vaccinated, to naturally top up immunity as with almost every other respiratory virus:

https://apple.news/A6ZvDDOmoQnOnV6om1sWrcg

Covid isn’t special.

A booster will help. But it isn't the only thing that people can do and they should do all the simple things they can do.

You think your mother and mother-in-law should wear a mask. Why? Because they will infect you when shopping with them. You are more likely to infect them if you aren't wearing one. Wearing masks is about the other people you protect, not yourself.

Why is this such a difficult concept?

As a matter of personal choice, now that wearing a mask doesn't mark you as excessively weird, I may well chose to wear an N95 in circumstances where I never would have before to protect from flu and colds in the season for those.

But I am the optimist to your pessimist. I don't think we will need to keep worry about covid at the top of our consciousness forever or even that much longer. The Spanish flu lasted 2 years (with no vaccine). 2022 may be a very different year than the last 2. For that purpose, the highly infectious delta strain may be a good thing. Infect all the uninfected and unvaccinated!

They wear theirs when they go out, again, at their discretion and if I am going to 'infect' them, it's either at their house or mine where no one wears a mask anyway.

Come on. You are making excuses for anti-Democracy. Long-lasting measures that turn life upside down across a wide spectrum of households should never be undertaken at the decree of one man (woman). Declaring a perpetual emergency is a slippery slope to exactly the kind of society that we don’t want, unless you enjoyed Senator Palpatine in Star Wars a bit too much.

Democracy and majority votes by elected legislatures should be making laws if certain measures are expected to be long lasting.

The proof is in the pudding, dude. You’re in Chicago where everybody robotically complies with all of these mandates. Out in the burbs and rural areas, mandates are being blatantly and outwardly ignored, and although I believe that masking is good and reasonable, I’m glad we have so many defiant people because we need people to be defiant right now to remind certain people that they aren’t tyrants.

Had some of these metrics been brought up on legislative floors, debated, and brought up for a vote and passed as temporary laws, I bet we would see more compliance today.

After reading my mask doesn't really protect me, I'm thinking of taking it off and enjoying the ability to go maskless in the places that allow it. We are both vaccinated, all three of us had COVID-19 earlier this year (including our son), and Lauren and I both had a breakthrough case last month, which was best described as a bad two-day allergy attack (with Moderna). Our son didn't get it the second time, likely due to both of us being vaccinated? As I've read here, the fact that we all had it earlier this year provides our son protection and the breakthrough was like a booster to Lauren and myself. I'm sure that's not the conclusion the people providing that information wanted me to reach, but it is the conclusion I reached. It needs approval from my wife.

I like calling my wife misty eyes or foggy eyes while we are out and then she complains about masks and glasses. When I was cleaning my glasses, I used window cleaner and she was angry over it, saying it can take-off the coatings on the lenses. I'm guessing she would have the same reaction to anything sprayed on them? I can also remember at the office being told to use certain types of cloth, cleaner, and who knows what else to protect the coatings. I remember anti-glare, a blue light coating, they turn dark outside, and maybe something else? I remember the better lenses are anti-scratch and are made to be easier to clean. They're not really glass... I think they are something else? My first thought in October 2019, as I looked around for the first time with glasses: When will we have glass buildings that turn dark in the sun? The Transitions Skyscraper, by Boston Properties. Be careful cleaning the windows!

As I think more about it, for people who are scared of COVID-19—even after vaccination—the best place for them to be is at home. You can work from home, take classes from home, and order almost anything from home. You can even talk with the doctor from home. The people who are scared and don't want to take any risks and those who are both scared and at higher risk (they can still catch it by going out, from what I've read here) should strongly consider staying at home until it's acceptable enough to them to go back out. The people who are vaccinated should have the ability to go out maskless. To further reduce the risk, we need to require vaccination to go out. Restaurants, retail, bars, fitness centers, concerts, arts, sports, classes, etc., should all require proof of vaccination and masking should be optional. Going out and doing so maskless should be the reward for vaccination. By both going out and doing so maskless, you take the risk and trust the vaccine for protection. Our main focus should be on getting as many people vaccinated as we can and convincing them to get boosters. Telling people they—and everyone around them—need an N95 after getting vaccinated, so they don't catch COVID-19, won't help in talking people into getting the vaccine.

I do think there will be a new variant (I've already heard of a new variant) and experts recommending masking, distancing, and capacity limits or closing certain businesses/cancelling events. The Spanish Flu is a good example to bring-up, since it has the best example of how measures to protect us can last for a decade or more! The next time you're in an old building with radiators, notice they are under the window, are covered, and usually painted an aluminum metallic color. This is due to national health experts telling people to open a window in their bedroom due to the Spanish Flu. Out of fear, people in Chicago, Detroit, Minneapolis, and Buffalo (down here, too!) opened all of their windows in the winter and the heating systems were designed to keep their homes and businesses warm on the coldest day of the year with all of the windows open! You likely noticed this (radiator under the window, aluminum paint, and radiator covers) in a building constructed in "1930." Yes, for the "1918" Spanish Flu Pandemic. When the Great Depression happened, people finally started closing their windows to save money and they had to find ways to reduce the heat of the radiators. Solutions introduced in the mid-1930s included covering them (reduced heat by 30%) and special aluminum metallic paints that reduced the amount of heat by around 20%. Those windows were open long after the danger of Spanish Flu had passed. Are masks, cancelled events, and business restrictions the new "open windows" that will stay with us for a decade or more?

I've seen people driving alone in their cars while masked.

^ Finally you're starting to sound a wee bit less like a germaphobe....thank God!

Most of the American public (and that means you too, progressive pro-vaccine people) just don't understand science and biology and continue to think that isolating and being scared is the "appropriate" default position.

Reality is, letting this virus spread through the population is the best way forward. That's how we get the immunity. We need to stop trying to stop COVID from spreading because....ya know....it AIN'T WORKING ANYWAY!!!!

And of course people should get vaccinated, but the dopeheads who refuse to do it are still standing their ground, so.......whaddya gonna do? :shrug:

Once again, I welcome Delta and all future variants into my respiratory passages, along with future vaccines, because I'm just arming my immune system. The sooner the better

Everyone WILL get this. If not today, maybe tomorrow or maybe a month or six months from now. Including the kids, they will ALL get it. Some will die, some won't. Some adults will be fine, some won't. Such is nature...

The best thing to do is to get vaccinated. This is another background substance, like the cold. Now with enough vaccination, we will reduce the chances of this becoming another dangerous strain but this will take a GLOBAL effort, not just an American one or a British one but a GLOBAL effort. Those that are not vaccinated or refuse to do so, this thing will cut through them, and purge and cull the sheep but do little to hurt the vaccinated wolves.

No sense in being germaphobes or wearing the masks forever and ever because one day you will encounter it, unless you never leave the house but that isn't feasible. Get vaccinated and if warranted, take a booster. That is the only solution.

Yeah folks forget how the immune system works. Our friends like Monocytes and Mast Cells and the original gangster's, Natural Killer Cells and the big boys, the one's that have been hitting the gym, the Macrophages! They even have nerds that remember past infections, we call those Memory B cells. Vaccines are like a stimulus injection and cash flow. Its like an arms shipment to fund the war going on in our body via some foreign intervention. The immune system will fight off those Delta and Lambda terrorist's so that the urban politician cells, a proud group of cells who believe in common cell rights, like enjoying ICE, can continue to live and enjoy freedom.

:haha:

Long live loud internal combustion engines.......

LOUD AS HELL!!!!!

I think the comparison made between murder and covid is not justifiable.
In reality, I don't want to die either COVID or Murder.

^^^

I think murder (especially if instant) would be a better option than some of those severe cases that are literally gasping for air for weeks. Sounds like a torturous way to die as your lungs fill with fluid and you feel like your drowning, gasping for air in a state of suffocation in a state of isolation as family is not allowed, with just you, the doctor and the incubation tubes. Stephen King has nothing on those severe cases. That sounds like true horror, knowing your time is on a clock and one sits there waiting for the end in a painful way. The viral version of waterboarding.

Sure it is. When you have people wearing masks while biking on the road at 530 AM, you have to wonder what the hell people are thinking.

If they looked at the data, they would stay home with a bulletproof vest instead.

Neither is rational of course, but one is looked at as good and the other one as stupid and overreacting. Both are stupid.

It's funny too, the people wearing masks outside are 100% people that are vaccinated. They are afraid of everything to include their own shadows.


A girl I go to school with made a facebook post about two weeks ago. She is in her mid-20s, healthy and is vaccinated yet stated she "will be staying indoors" until this current wave ends. Huh? First, does she know the data? Of course not. Second, we all know what she is doing. She is either insane or is virtue signaling. I know shes not insane.



Corona has become political. The girl running against Florida's governor had a press conference the other day and she wore her mask for her entire speech. Why? It wasn't because of science, it was to show she is SERIOUS about Covid while the governor isn't. We can all see right through this shit.

^ Yes, unfortunately some take the "you can never be too safe!" adage a bit too far.

It comes from a false understanding of science from people who claim to be in the "pro-science" camp, when really they are just misunderstanding science by assuming that being pro-fear is the same thing as being pro-science.

Exactly. And you can absolutely be too safe. You can be so worried about dying that you never live.

The pandemic is, for all intents and purposes, over. There are still people getting sick, and some of them are going to hospital, but almost always only because they’ve chosen not to be vaccinated. Covid won’t go away, people will keep catching it (vaccinated or unvaccinated), and almost all of the vaccinated people who get it will be fine.

I say “vaccinated” as shorthand for “vaccinated or previously infected”, because leaving aside debates about the breadth or depth of antibody response, people in either camp are generally fine. They can get sick but it’s unlikely to be serious. Boosters are probably unnecessary, especially if the virus continues to circulate and people are regularly infected, but they’re a great moneymaker for pharma companies so will probably be required.

That’s going to be the situation forever. It won’t get any safer for a vaccinated person than it is now. If you’re still wearing a mask, then either you’re planning to wear it forever or you’re just acting irrationally.

Dude, just go back to staying at home and shopping online.

You are going to get Covid. It’s inevitable. You’re vaccinated so the risk is minimal. But no one should have to keep this shit up because you’re a hypochondriac.

Risk reduction is key. Granted its the ultimate form of risk reduction by staying home and talking to the plants, but if one wants a normal life, vaccination and the outlook of knowing that you will get it but be protected is key. It made sense prior to the shots to heed caution amongst the at-risk groups but now that there is a solution, we adapt and live within the confines of the solution and any further feedback regarding this pathogen and mitigatory measures.

Given the situation at present, one can walk outside and live a normal life.

Which, of course, is not the opinion of "the scientists"; only you and self-centered people like you.

Technochratic decisions like public health are best handled by executives who have public health departments and access to modeling, not legislators who lack domain experts in their staff. There is already an off-ramp from tyranny in the form of the courts, who can grant emergency injunctions or whatever.

Besides, I highly doubt a lot of people care about or even understand jurisdictional issues. They may be making this argument, but mostly out of convenience against something they don't like. Very few people who are not complying now would be complying if it was voted on by a legislature.

And it's not surprising that compliance is lower in the burbs and rural areas, people don't live and work in highrises there or take public transportation (and antisocial people are more likely to live around fewer people if they can manage). I agree that masks inside restaurants are mostly silly, but I wouldn't eat inside a restaurant until case rates are much lower anyway.

^ I bet you that if we tracked Adenovirus as much as we are tracking Covid, you’d see the exact same surge patterns.

But of course nobody is asking about Adenovirus, because fearporning about Covid is all the “rage” these days :haha:

I’m not following. You are fairly young and healthy and vaccinated. Why are you scared of catching Covid? I’m sure you take greater risks on a daily basis than that

Besides, there is a benefit to getting the Delta variant: immunity

I wouldn’t pay the high rents to live downtown if I couldn’t even enjoy the restaurant scene. You’re throwing your money away. Germaphobes belong in the burbs where you can be safe in your car

In the initial stages, yes, but legislators are there to put a check on their power. A lot of executive decisions are political, not necessarily driven by public health such as your mask mandate.

My wife is pregnant, it's not worth the risk. And most restaurants offer outdoor seating. And I'm not renting :-p.

^ I don’t get what you’re so worried about.

Sounds like you’re buying the fear Kool Aid. Pregnant women can be vaccinated. They pass their antibodies to their fetuses.

Meanwhile, the value proposition of living downtown without enjoying any of the amenities (wait till it gets cold) drops to zero.

If you are that scared, you belong in the suburbs where you can actually live with lots of space, and stay isolated from other people.

It’s a weird little dichotomy today, where the people who seem to be most pro-urban are actually also the most anti-urban in the sense that they are scared of being around other people.

You and I need to swap spaces, because I live in the burbs but have actually been to more Chicago restaurants in the past 3 months than you have. And guess what…..I’m not dead! :haha:

I was in Greenland for half of the last 3 months (and also in the UP for one week and in Canada for one week), so would not be surprising. Anyway I went to a restaurant yesterday, I just ate outside. and got takeout for lunch... anyway if I lived in Libertyville, my commute would be hell https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Libe...1629709200!3e3 . No thanks.

And yeah, my wife is vaccinated (got vaccinated before we found out we were pregnant), but even ignoring her less-functional immune system and potential complications for the fetus, having to quarantine for 2 weeks while pregnant would be a huge huge pain (kinda hard to get your ultrasounds like that...).

I suppose Chicago may get cold in the fall, but for now it's not too unlike San Francisco where outdoor dining is extremely pleasant and nearly all the restaurants offer it. I'm not talking take-out; I'm talking full seated service.

People like tup don't seem to get how much it is NOT a deprivation to take simple measures to avoid the modest odds of a breakthrough case of covid (which, if you are very unlucky, could be a lot nastier than he expects and why take the chance if you aren't missing anything not doing so?).

^ Back to sounding like Howard again, I see?

Getting seriously ill from Covid as a healthy vaccinated person is not a “modest” odd. It’s a stupendously low odd.

And you don’t know Chicago if you don’t think you are seriously depriving yourself if you don’t go indoors. For a good 5-6 months per year, anything cultural of worth requires you to be indoors, period.

Anybody who cares about fine dining at some of the top restaurants in the country, best theatre in the country, best museums, shows, events, etc etc will have to be indoors.

If you are scared to do that in perpetuity, then:

Why

The

Hell

Are you living

In the center

Of a world class city?

It. Just. Makes. No. Sense.

This question is for SIGSEG, not for Pedestrian. Howard, we already know that you are irrational and scared of your own shadow at this point.

I can kind of get it though from his perspective. Even with passed anti bodies, you never know what the magnitude could be on a new born. Probably just to mitigate the risk of some complications.

Granted its futile because everyone will get it eventually, but hey... if it makes one feel better, mentally to psychologically, eh... let em be. :shrug:

Also a question of efficiency.

Like it would suck, just suppose, his wife gets it, she's vaccinated, the new born has the anti-bodies, but somehow this leads to some complications even though the new born doesn't get sick sick. Rare.. yes... but in the realm of possibility? Sure.

^ One can always relate to irrational fear

I can relate to him too. It’s always easy to say, “I’d rather play it safe”

Nothing hard about that. But cities die when everybody keeps doing that.

Who said anything about cultural institutions? It's not like I'm avoiding going inside places, I'm on the red line right now and take the train to work every day. But eating indoors at restaurants is particularly risky, since people can't wear masks while eating and it's an enclosed space and there's no contact tracing. Come winter we'll either forgo going out, if cases don't drop (I think they will) or maybe risk going to a restaurant that requires vaccination if we really really want to for some reason (but why? It's just not that importante to us I guess when we can get takeout). Plus I figure I live downtown for different reasons (convenience+environmental+aesthetic) than you theoretically would, so not sure why you have that level of antagonism. Though, there are probably 5x more places to eat outside in a 5 minute walking radius from my condo than in a 5 minute driving radius of most suburban homes (for some reason, outdoor dining does not seem to be nearly as popular outside cities in the US).

There is (obviously) little information about the effect of COVID-19 on newborns. It would be completely unsurprising if it were correlated with poorer health outcomes or lower IQ. Plus my wife is a lot more careful than I am--she won't eat cold cuts or precut fruit from the grocery store while pregnant due to risk of listeria, for example. Ordering at restaurants is an adventure in avoiding uncooked eggs and soft cheeses :)

He just likes tilting at windmills to justify his own denial of the reasonable measures sensible people choose to take to avoid needless illness and possible hospitalization. How he is allowed to practice medicine with these attitudes and whether his colleagues are aware he holds them is the big mystery because they are so outside the mainstream of medical and scientific opinion.

^ Nice try, Howard.

I advise people to get vaccines. I don’t advise them to live in perpetual fear and hide in their basements. Such stupidity does not make one a good healthcare professional, it makes one a germaphobe.

Go back to your basement. The “snerks” are coming back:

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-cYNhmqmtF...0/paranoid.jpg

Get out, you snerks!

You are a disgrace. There's no pretending otherwise at this point. Not only is your medical advice wrong but you can't participate in honest debate without attributing positions to others that they've never taken. The organized and individual medical professionals all over the country are advocating masks indoors, vaccination and avoiding indoor gatherings that are unnecessary but you are saying none of it except the shots is necessary or useful. And you are doing it like a street punk.

^ I never said I am opposed to people wearing masks indoors. I was at a mall in Rosemont yesterday and our whole family wore masks pretty much the whole time. But I still went to the mall.

I’m just saying that you are a total germaphobe and irrational. You don’t have the slightest perspective and have become paralyzed with anxiety. That’s a disease worse than Covid at this point, which is one of thousands of viruses that we will face and fight off in our lifetimes. But your anxiety has no cure, sadly.

Epidemiologists are not the only arbiters of the correct approach.

They have one goal in mind, which is their job. Perhaps they would be happy with everyone wearing masks indoors for the rest of time. I am not and think people need to be less risk averse, or at least have the freedom to be, in order to have a normal life.

^ A lot of doctors also don't agree with the fear-porn around COVID either, trust me. It's bad medicine to humor germaphobes, just as it is to give everybody who has a runny nose a prescription for antibiotics just because they "want one".

When somebody panics about an abnormal CT scan result, for example, it is your job to tell them what this abnormal result actually means. You have a 6 mm nodule in your lung, we will need to repeat a scan in 12 months, but don't worry, it is highly likely to be benign. Allowing people to overreact and panic is NOT what a good healthcare provider does. Acquiescing as patients share exaggerated fears is NOT good medicine, it's lousy medicine.

That applies to COVID. Contrary to Pedestrian's irrational and fear-based views, the risk of serious infection for most vaccinated people is simply too low for most people to not live normal lives. Sure, wear a mask indoors, now plan to get a booster shot, but beyond that you must get on with life. And mental health matters too. Pedestrian's mental health appears to be in jeopardy, and that's tragic. Somebody needs to send him one of these

Looking back to 1918:
People often take things to an extreme, if we allow them to. Speaking of pets (dogs in a link in the previous post): How about this extreme, below... Ask your state or local health expert, recommending your local mask mandates, for guidance on masking your cat!

https://i.imgur.com/fKsZNeV.jpg

https://www.atlasobscura.com/article...uenza-epidemic

You can die in whatever reason like pre existing illness or not. What we can do now is to improve our immune system and stay away from the crowd. Let's be cautious too.

It's a good indication for the economy. This only means there is additional demand of necessities which can increase the number of the goods in the market.