And again, again, again, again, again, again........ We have DATA.

The vast vast vast majority of those who are vaccinated are protected from severe illness that results in hospitalizations/deaths. If the day comes that bubonic variant emerges that blasts through vaccines and gives us the rate of illness on par with the original strain across both unvaccinated and vaccinated, then, and ONLY then would I be ok with putting my mask back on and distancing until I get a booster to protect myself.

Until that day comes there is zero evidence to care for people who choose not to get vaccinated.


EDIT - Back on the topic of the thread - There has been an uptick in mask usage here in the downtown area, but the majority of folks aren't wearing masks inside, and most places aren't enforcing any sort of private mandate at their business.

Another big tech company has decided to embrace permanent remote work for their employees - https://www.reuters.com/technology/l...se-2021-07-29/

Had a first for me last night.

My wife and I walked over to one of our neighborhood Thai BYOs for dinner.

They weren't letting anyone dine inside unless you showed them a vaccine card.

We're both fully vaxxed, but never thought to bring our cards with us.

So we walked a couple blocks down the street and ate at one of their competitors.

There's only one business i've had to present evidence of vaccination at, but I used a photo I took of the card. I keep the original at home to ensure I don't lose it or deal with wear/tear.

I get that’s annoying, but I sort of support businesses doing that.

And for sure that’s going to be a Chicago thing. I don’t see that catching on in the burbs

Or perhaps they just aren’t irrationally freaked out and paranoid about apocalyptic events happening (with zero evidence) like you are.

The “deadly escape variant” is pure nonsense, it’s a boogeyman, and you can’t comprehend that.

And that’s why you keep earning the nickname “Howard”

Good idea.

I'm gonna use it.

Thanks :tup:

Not necessarily. The wave of infections from the delta variant lasted about 50-60 days in both Britain and India, the two countries that it has washed over. I'm expecting the US to see the same: A storm of infections and illness lasting about 2 months and infecting a high proportion of the unvaccinated, then a decline after which we can probably lift any new public health measures. We are about 1 month behind the UK which is now seeing a rapid decline in new infections. I expect that to be happening in the US by the end of August.

That's exactly what I did 4 months ago: Photocopied multiple copies of my card and put the original in my "passport wallet" with my passport. I carry one of the copies in my regular wallet.

However California now has a QR code vaccine passport (like in Europe) if I can get them to accept my documentation of my vaccinations which did not happen in California but rather in Arizona. I submitted what they asked for but haven't heard back. If you were vaccinated in the state they supposedly get the info directly from the source.

You are willfully ignoring the point I keep trying to get into thick heads like yours. It doesn't matter whether the first generation vaccines protect against delta or not in so far as there is a large pool of unvaccinated people in whom the virus continues to mutate. The delta variant itself will mutate, perhaps in several base pairs and each time it does its proteins--its antigens--will less and less resemble those against which the vaccine was made and so each time the vaccine will be less and less effective. Thew delta variant is at least somewhat less susceptible to the vaccines than the alpha variant which itself was very slightly less susceptible than the original virus against which the vaccine were made. Expect the vaccine to be that much less effective against whatever follows delta and something will. But how soon depends on the number and frequency of mutating viruses which is a function of the number of viral hosts which, in turn, in the US is a function largely of the number of unvaccinated people.

This is not a question of data. It is a question of simply understanding virology and it is why nearly every expert in that field is begging people to get vaccinated. They care about the welfare of those people as any normal human would but their specific concern is what I'm telling you: They want to minimize viral mutations and delay as long as possible the emergence of newer more virulent strains because to a man and woman, they understand that is going to happen. And masks add just bit more interference in person to person viral transmission--not at all to the degree that the vaccine does, but incrementally just a bit.

I don't really care if you put your mask back on. I hope never to be anywhere near YOU but I'll never understand your stubbornness about that issue. Wearing a mask indoors to me seems so trivial and your stamping your feet in a hissy fit so childish.

ok Howard pls relax and take a chill pill before Lamba is your net varient you are going to be concerned with.



I have had enough of this daily fear porn. Although most of the posters here thrive on it


It seems.

The bay area mask mandate begins tomorrow, and other populated metros will follow.

Chicago is recommending them, but not mandating them. Same with NYC.

If there is a surge Cook County or Lightfoot wont make a move? I'm not sure and it's a difficult subject since the science says local mandates are ok but no federal (for now). My area for sure is not following the science and now people have to consider other options for medical care.

Yeah, back to masks again. But at least things are still open. Now we're all living like the Floridans over the past year.

Welp, looks like the anti maskers are back.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...a1e5e022_z.jpg

https://abc7news.com/society/exclusi...urge/10925826/

To those saying wearing a mask is trivial - sure, but it can’t become a permanent fixture of life.

Human beings are not supposed to cover half of their face. We get all sorts of social cues and build personal connections through the facial expressions that masks make impossible. Cultures that cover faces (e.g., in more conservative Islamic countries) are fucked and not ones we should seek to emulate. Even in East Asia, people do NOT wear masks as a universal prophylaxis, but rather when they themselves are feeling ill. And Japanese culture is also distant and impersonal relative to Western culture.

People wearing masks significantly impairs normal human interactions and bonding. Not to mention it’s difficult to understand what someone is saying through a mask.

There are significant drawbacks to them, and like all of this is comes down to cost-benefit. Sure it’s better for things to be open with a mask mandate than closed, but we’re also not in pre-vaccine Covid now. The unvaccinated don’t deserve my wearing a mask to protect them, and people who are vaccinated don’t get sick enough to justify it either.

Those who pointedly and knowingly refuse to pitch in and help humanity reduce the pandemic's death toll just don't matter anymore.

They don't care if the hospitals fill up until the rest of us cannot get the care we need if we are in an accident, or face some other medical issue unrelated to the pandemic that they help spread. They are inhumane, and they are inhuman--it's time the rest of us stop caring about them and what they want.

Their latest failed attempts to "discern social cues" and "make personal connections" don't matter. Their eternal inability to understand what people are saying doesn't matter. Their failures at bonding and experiencing "normal human interactions," which precedes and will outlast COVID, don't matter. Their rants against 'distant and impersonal' foreign cultures don't matter, given how they can't be bothered in the slightest to save lives in their own culture. Fuck 'em.

Anti-mask and anti-vax lives don't matter.

I’m vaccinated. That’s enough.

But frankly, if you insist, I believe there are too many people anyway, especially elderly people (we have a structural demographic problem), and the obese have dug their own graves (especially anyone who is still obese 16 months into a pandemic that disproportionately affects fat people… I have no sympathy for them). They can stay at home if they’d like. But the world has been in need of a plague, and now we have one but won’t let it work. I’m not doing another year of this bullshit for the sake of fatasses and boomers. Happy?

I know of a number of places that are doing this here in Chicago, Steely. And I personally have no problem with it whatsoever.

Aaron (Glowrock)

Jesus Christ, dude. Just go away already. Go live on your own little island full of perfect-bodied people with no issues all of ages less than 50 and be done with it. And please, please never become old enough to become a burden on society. That way you'd never force some young, virile perfect human specimen the burden of having to pay for your elder care.

There are so many fucking trolls here on SSP in these COVID threads it's almost hard to believe. I'm not even sure if these idiots believe the crap they spew or they're simply trying to get everyone else pissed off at them. Regardless of the reason, it's still pathetic.

:rolleyes:

Aaron (Glowrock)

^ Oh I’m done before I become a burden, trust me.

Yeah until your vaccine card gets destroyed and you need it replaced.

How does one do that? How would I do it from here in London?

Why is any of this shit necessary when anyone is perfectly capable of protecting themselves by getting vaccinated? Why is a private business taking it upon itself to “encourage” vaccination by requiring people to show a card? Or are they stupid enough to think that in their little restaurant a new vaccine-resistant strain will suddenly emerge?

This is all a fucking joke.

Creating inconveniences for the unvaccinated is probably the best way to encourage them to suck it up and get the shot. If businesses are willing to take any potential hit to their bottom line by potentially losing out on customers then good for them. Even if they don't know what's best for them, it is undoubtedly better for all of us if any of them are convinced in large numbers to stop being morons.

I'm pretty sure these businesses are doing it more to protect their staff, employees, some of which are treated like fam and in many cases, are actually fam.

And you need to chill bruh.

This isn’t their job. And they are creating “inconveniences” for the vaccinated as well, as Steely’s anecdote demonstrates. Just wait until your card gets torn or lost and it takes weeks of phone calls to have it replaced.

It’s moral posturing.

It's not their job, but it is their right to decide who they want to serve. If the majority of people share your worldview, then their business will suffer accordingly. Let's see how the free market views vaccination requirements.

Bars, restaurants, bookstores requiring proof of vaccination is much like a face covering. It's virtue signaling and does nothing to stop the spread of a virus.


You know how many underage kids go to bars and clubs with sophisticated fake IDs, this is a piece of paper with black ink on it, with someone's awful handwriting scribbled on the vaccines lines. Mine has stickers on it, lol.

^ Maybe you don't like it, but I think that the lunkheads refusing vaccination are doing far more 'posturing' than the grownups who went and got stuck.

Preposterous, simply preposterous, that there is even a movement whatsoever against vaccination to begin with. This all began when a bunch of scoundrels decided to seed doubt in peoples' minds about getting the Measles vaccine for their children. Now this mental illness has infested our society, creating doubt FOR NO REASON.

I for one think it's great that private businesses are requiring vaccines for entry. If you want to save yourself, make photocopies and take cell phone pics of your vaccine card, just to be sure.

What's wrong with that? It doesn't seem to hurt the goal of getting as many people vaccinated as possible.

Restaurants and other small businesses should be allowed to set the rules of etiquette.

No blazer? Go to the next restaurant.
No reservations? Go to the next restaurant that is taking walk ins.
No vaccine? Go breed, grass feed, pasture raise, humanely slaughter, butcher, dry age, and grill your own cattle.

It’s not. That. Difficult.

There’s no reason to complain to me about anti-vaxxers. I’m not one. I just don’t care if people choose not to be. It’s their own life.

The problem is that this “there could be a more dangerous variant!” panic has to stop. There will always be new variants and there’s nothing anyone can do about it. Vaccine producers will keep up as well as they can, and a fair number of frail and elderly people will continue to die, just like flu.

That’s life. We all die some day. The baby boomers seem inclined to cause as much suffering as necessary to future generations in order to prolong theirs a bit longer, because they are generally selfish assholes.

(By the way I think my distaste for the elderly must stem partly from having lived in this country for so long. Elderly Brits are the worst.)

The problem is that proving vaccination presents many more challenges than any of those things.

Paper vaccine cards aren’t designed to be carried around at all times. They’re pretty fragile. They don’t fit in a wallet or a pocket. They are tricky to replace.

What about foreign tourists who don’t have a CDC vaccination card? Are you expecting bar and restaurant staff to decide whether to accept proof of vaccination from, say, an Italian tourist?

More “sophisticated” systems in other countries are even worse, as I have previously pointed out, because they’re inflexible. If businesses in different countries can’t recognise other countries’ vaccination credentials then the whole system is worthless.

By the way, if any of you are planning to travel to Europe, you might get by with a CDC paper card but you will definitely not be able to use a photo or photocopy.

NYC will require proof of vaccination for indoor dining, gyms, and performance venues by mid-September (customers and employees):

will it only apply to the over 12's, or will it become illegal for anyone under the age of 12 to go anywhere indoors because they can't yet receive vaccinations?

Details, lol. I don't think anyone knows yet.

Welps, time to bust out the riot gear.

To be fair here, these are private businesses.... They have the right to refuse service for any reason (aside from discrimination based on [insert group]). Every adult can get the vaccine, so..... private businesses have every right to do this. It will be interesting to see people on the right twist themselves into trying to be for private enterprise/capitalism while also being completely against private businesses making their own choices.

Also, if I had to guess, I think these are businesses hedging against more lockdowns from their local governments. If you own a small business right now, what would you rather have? No vaccine mandate and risk the government shutting everything back down again, or requiring people be vaccinated and continue on as normal?

I suspect most folks are in the latter category at this point because the former is not desirable by any group of people.

I am not against it, but you will start seeing lawsuits flying any second now. How the courts respond though I have no idea.

Also - Maybe this will help flesh out some standardized vaccine passports that we can all use for travel, events, etc. That's how you avoid worrying about taking your card everywhere you go.

Now we just need to get liquor stores to require it and gun stores and than we will achieve 100% vaccination minus those under 12.

Yeah vaccine requirements are coming. NYC, I believe SF and other will follow suit.

Sooner folks get the Pfizer or Moderna or J&J into their arms, sooner we can go back to peace.

Those Southern cities need to start requiring it, go the way of NYC. They are the big hurdle, those areas.

From this article about the Broadway theaters it only applies to those over 12 and those with a medical condition or closely-held religious beliefs

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/30/enter...red/index.html

This is a law to punish those who do not comply, and under 12 do not have a means to comply, so they should/will be exempt. Maybe have to wear a mask, who knows on that one?

I would actually prefer businesses enforce a vaccination requirement for all than enforce a mask requirement for all. It's difficult to enforce a mask requirement only if unvaccinated since the unvaccinated will just lie (not that I have any problem with this, they are the ones taking the risk). It does create all kinds of complications as 10023 mentioned but as a temporary measure to push another 10-20% of the population to get vaccinated I think it's an okay tradeoff. Though my #1 preference would be no mandates for anything and let the anti-vax get sick if that is their decision.

Plus, unvaxxed kids with vaxxed parents are way less likely to get COVID.

Pardon my ignorance but which religious beliefs forbid vaccinations, outside of johnny-come-lately cults?

I'd also be in favor of businesses enforcing proof of vaccine rather than an indoor mask mandate actually, although it looks like it'll be both that are being mandated, since it rewards the vaccinated individual.

By doing your civic duty, you are allowed the privilege to utilize other people's businesses and services (ideally mask free). You and your unvaccinated children can also avoid interacting with unvaccinated people who, by virtue of being unvaccinated, are far more likely to be infectious, and as we've seen, far less intelligent and less pleasant people to interact with.

OK so I just did a quick check and none of the established religions in the world forbid or discourage their faithful from getting vaccinated.

So not sure why public authorities would open the door to this exemption when there is no apparent need for it.

I have no qualms about businesses weeding people out who haven't been vaccinated even if I'm not on board with them requiring masks since you have to take them off to eat and drink anyway. Why not remove masks indoors from the equation altogether plus eliminating risk of covid but disallowing unvaccinated from the premises? There's virtually no excuse not to get vaccinated other than to rebel against government, science, mommy, whatever so not sure why the rest of us should have to lockdown and wear pointless masks indefinitely because of this.

First of all, the "rights" issue is a non-starter. No one has any more "right" to be a potential spreader of infection by entering indoor public spaces while being unvaccinated than those who are there have "rights" to be protected from them.

As for masks, you apparently really don't like wearing them and no one can convince you to like it. But a properly fitted N95 or KN95 offers an increment of protection to the wearer and an increment of reduction in viral spreading that, at a time like this with a highly contagious variant peaking, is useful to the public health. It reduces the 12% (or so) effectiveness gap of the current vaccines significantly and therefore is warranted, perhaps only until we are through this wave (which I believe will be another 1-2 months).

:haha:

You are something else. You're fully vaccinated and you're wearing an N95 to protect yourself from the veritable common cold.

Otherwordly how off the rocker you've gotten