How about being integrated into the Javits expansion if that ever happens. A combined facility should be very attractive.
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a terrible idea. They also don't want to move away from the convenient feed of numerous subway and commuter lines. The Farley would have been the closest and best choice. http://m7.i.pbase.com/o6/06/102706/1...rleyGarden.jpg http://m0.i.pbase.com/o6/06/102706/1...leyGarden2.jpg |
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https://therealdeal.com/2017/05/23/c...on-task-force/
Cuomo taps Roth, LeFrak for Penn Station task force Governor recommends booting Amtrak and having the state take over https://s12.therealdeal.com/trd/up/2...n-Station-.jpg By Kathryn Brenzel May 23, 2017 Quote:
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Does the city have any land of remotely equal value that they could offer up in a trade? That might sound naive.
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^ The MTA and Amtrak co-own, with I think the MTA owning the majority, Sunnyside Yards which is a 192 acre rail yard not far from Manhattan in Queens which has been floated as a sort of Hudson Yards on steroids. Amtrak has been fairly vocal about shedding some of its real estate holdings, like Sunnyside, to raise funds. It'd be interesting to see if an X% increase in ownership of Sunnyside could entice Amtrak to give up Penn.
I think the most important take away from that, is that the Port Authority shouldn't be allowed anywhere near Penn Station. They would undoubtedly figure out a way to make it worse. |
MTA finally details its plan to deal with Penn Station repairs
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https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...us-options.png ========================= https://www.6sqft.com/mta-finally-de...ation-repairs/ |
In related news, Commuters Sue Over Poor Service On Long Island Rail Road. Can't blame em.
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unfortunately, mta only owns 30 of the approx 180 acres of sunnyside yards. a sliver along the nw side. the city owns the air rights over that. amtrak owns 140 acres and gm owns a small parcel of the rest. https://www.nycedc.com/sites/default...ve-Summary.pdf |
I've been waiting since last fall for the west concourse to open...
https://www.instagram.com/p/BVUgw5OD...y=ryanharris73 http://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51...NjM2NQ%3D%3D.2 |
https://ny.curbed.com/2017/6/15/1580...se-post-office
Penn Station's West End Concourse finally opens to the public It marks the first phase of the transformation of the James A. Farley Post Office building BY TANAY WARERKAR JUN 15, 2017 Quote:
https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/dZGo...ce_2009.0.jpeg https://www.instagram.com/p/BVXAs6ug...thepellareport http://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51...NDEzMQ%3D%3D.2 |
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...t-penn-station
At Troubled Penn Station, a Glimpse of a Brighter Future A long-delayed stairway that will improve access for rail commuters at Penn Station has opened. https://www.usnews.com/dims4/USNEWS/...urse_68859.jpg June 15, 2017 Quote:
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...icle-1.3250545 New West End Concourse opens for Penn Station to the delight of often-frustrated commuters http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopo..._1200/penn.jpg http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopo..._1200/penn.jpg |
i took a walk thru -- so clean and nice -- from yesterday! :cheers:
http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...psthz455uv.jpg http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...pscoaf78xn.jpg http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...psdzcjvyjf.jpg http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...pstenypbo6.jpg http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...ps19ufbyxv.jpg http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...psqaystcyz.jpg http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...psd84l1ajv.jpg http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...ps26ggdrbx.jpg http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...psdw4s1qiy.jpg http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...pscvktkati.jpg http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...psf0ka7yga.jpg http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0dn4qpu0.jpg http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...psvyupx9ah.jpg http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...psnpqvw2lk.jpg http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0ynpcevq.jpg http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...psgtyuhwcd.jpg http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...psdzxozkq8.jpg http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2eaopujr.jpg http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...pscjsmzoxg.jpg http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...psdcralsq3.jpg http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...psjgmklcnb.jpg |
Vornado, Related and Skanska finalize deal to build $1.6B Moynihan Train Hall :cheers:
https://s13.therealdeal.com/trd/up/2...Renderings.jpg Quote:
TRD |
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^ whoa the distortion on those made me a bit dizzy. yipes.
to be honest the new concourse isnt much more than a brighter than typical subway walkway, albeit with charging stations. its great that its open, that it opens up the farley bldg, makes room for lirr commuters and is a nice environment, such as it is, but the real difference won't come until moynihan hall opens. that will be a seriously impressive and transformative transit environment for penn. |
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Oh trust me. It's already made a big difference for me and many other people. Coming into Penn Station everyday, and having to stand on crowded train platforms as the crowd lslowly makes it's way up available stairways and escalators while the new stairways to the west end sat behind gates was simply infuriating. It added insult to all of the other shenanigans people had to endure just trying to get to Penn Station. They could have left the walls bare sheetrock, and it would have been an amazing development. Anyway, I'm glad the renderings are on the outside of the building. It feels that much closer to getting built. http://m1.i.pbase.com/o10/06/102706/...625_190236.jpg http://m2.i.pbase.com/o10/06/102706/...625_190255.jpg http://m3.i.pbase.com/o10/06/102706/...625_190316.jpg http://m4.i.pbase.com/o10/06/102706/...625_190331.jpg |
^ oh yeah i can certainly see the usefulness of the concourse for commuters with the much needed additional access. i was just referring to the looks of it. terms like grand or inspiring wont come into the play here until farley takes a bow and moynihan hall opens.
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Biggest missed opportunity of all time?
NYC has no clue what to do with hundreds of these. https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4329/...30043018_z.jpg20170710_200556 by J Sinclair, on Flickr NYC has this. https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4319/...e0ca0397_z.jpg20170710_195533 by J Sinclair, on Flickr Connect the dots. Moynihan Station was built to support hundreds of 18-whellers. Moynihan Station is being built to support intercity transport. CONNECT THE DOTS NYC! |
Those 18 wheelers would likely arrive and leave at off peak hours. Busses typically arrive and leave during rush hour, thus necessitating direct on/off access which this station doesn't have.
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What is going in the back of the Farley station? Is it offices? Originally MSG had a plan to move there, I hope they will still have that option.
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http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...groundbreaking Finally, action: LaGuardia, Moynihan projects get going Cuomo, at Delta terminal groundbreaking, reveals train hall start is just two weeks away By Will Bredderman August 8, 2017 Quote:
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I know exactly what to do with them. Keep them in Jersey. We don't need the 8,000 buses a day that come into the city.
Build a bus terminal at the Meadowland, then extend the 7 train over there to carry in all the bus passengers. Quote:
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Penn Station's Moynihan Train Hall begins construction
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Some New Renderings From 9th Ave https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4376/...8de00de8_b.jpg https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4351/...f22c54c3_b.jpg https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4358/...a8eb2b1d_b.jpg https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4399/...4d82fc72_b.jpg https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4386/...aea8de31_b.jpg https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4390/...9738fdb4_b.jpg |
That last pic with One Manhattan West Towers and HY is amazing.
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It's like Penn Station reincarnated. This is impressive work. So does this officially mean that Farley will cease postal operations?
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It seems there could be a mall or offices in the rear portion of the building near 9th avenue, is this correct?
If so, it is a pity that MSG could never move there. A lost opportunity. Also, when is the work on the old Penn starting - the new concourse and grand entrance? |
^ Blame Dolan for the MSG move.
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Worth a good look...
https://www.6sqft.com/cuomo-releases...gets-underway/ https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...ust-2017-8.jpg https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...ust-2017-3.jpg https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...ust-2017-6.jpg https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...ust-2017-7.jpg https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...st-2017-11.jpg https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...st-2017-12.jpg http://www.amny.com/transit/moynihan...one-1.14069020 http://cdn.newsday.com/polopoly_fs/1...280/image.jpeg https://www.6sqft.com/cuomo-releases...gets-underway/ https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...ust-2017-2.jpg https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...ust-2017-1.jpg |
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I also think this is the end for Penn Station's possible redevelopment. Sad, but there doesn't seem to be other sites that Dolan would find appealing available in the area unless something massively changes. No doubt, the annex is now off the table unless something crazy happened down the line and the developers were willing to do another deal - unlikely if the mall and office space is successful. What Penn really needed was fundamental track changes, not just pretty head houses. The current project is a nice improvement over the old place for Amtrak and some LIRR pax, but it doesn't serve enough people, doesn't fix the transport and capacity issues with Penn Station, and doesn't help fix the old Penn's ugly appearance. |
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In a perfect world, we would get a new Penn Station on the current site (something also questionable due to the ballooned population of Penn Station on that site). But the perfect should not be the enemy of the good. And what we're getting at Moynihan is good, very good. |
I wonder what all these retail locations will be repurposed for when Amazon eats them alive.
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I would agree with the optimism over the retail, especially in this location.
Regarding Moynihan Station, while not the perfect solution we're getting a lot better than we have now. It's definitely something welcome even if for the foreseeable future Dolan's presence with MSG limits what can be done with Penn Station itself. |
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Retail will be fine. Retail rents in Manhattan have never been higher. Amazon is opening retail stores too, including one right by Penn Station. |
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MSG has about seven years left before they will be forced to leave, BTW. There are actually three unrelated projects going on that will eventually connect to the existing Penn: 1. Moynihan Station (which is basically just a train hall for the existing platforms), 2. MSG (which will either be demolished or repurposed as a train hall/mixed use redevelopment) and 3. Gateway (which will be a new train terminal/platforms, built underground, to the south, connected to the existing Penn). Moynihan is an LIRR and Amtrak project (though Metro North will probably replace Amtrak once Gateway is built), Gateway is an Amtrak project (and possibly NJ Transit) and MSG is unclear at this point. |
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https://www.designboom.com/architect...rk-01-08-2016/ https://www.designboom.com/wp-conten...ignboom-05.jpg https://www.designboom.com/wp-conten...ignboom-06.jpg https://www.designboom.com/wp-conten...02-818x509.jpg https://www.designboom.com/wp-conten...03-818x591.jpg https://www.designboom.com/wp-conten...ignboom-11.jpg Remembering an earlier plan... http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/04/ny...n.html?mcubz=0 New Grandeur for Penn Station in Latest Plan By CHARLES V. BAGLI JULY 4, 2007 Quote:
http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...-before-moving MSG wants Farley alterations before moving The most striking change to the James A. Farley Post Office would be the installation of a huge glass wall between the train hall and the Garden. By Anne Michaud October 16, 2007 Quote:
The window for putting a new MSG into the Farley has passed, but it would have went something like this... http://m1.i.pbase.com/o6/06/102706/1...sM7uE.rpa1.jpg http://m7.i.pbase.com/o6/06/102706/1...rleyGarden.jpg http://m0.i.pbase.com/o6/06/102706/1...leyGarden2.jpg A few more looks... http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showth...=3579&page=166 http://wirednewyork.com/forum/attach...2&d=1355083433 http://wirednewyork.com/forum/attach...9&d=1355083385 http://wirednewyork.com/forum/attach...1&d=1355083431 I don't know if anyone here remembers the original plans to put office towers into the back side of the Farley Building. There was a design contest with about 5 or so firms submitting plans. |
http://www.gettyimages.com/event/gov...re-id833759450
http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/...re-id833759530 http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/...re-id833759402 http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/...re-id833759278 https://twitter.com/rbl1910 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHcJIMaVYAAKJjd.jpg https://ny.curbed.com/2017/6/16/1582...-redevelopment https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chor...4.36.19_PM.png https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/h2VD...31.23_PM.0.png https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chor...4.35.19_PM.png https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/4Udk...4.31.43_PM.png https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/wxTj...4.34.32_PM.png http://www.som.com/projects/moynihan_train_hall http://www.som.com/FILE/23614/moynih...900_som_05.jpg http://www.usasom.com/data/upload/im...1e802e1362.jpg https://www.6sqft.com/cuomo-releases...gets-underway/ https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...ust-2017-8.jpg https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...ust-2017-3.jpg https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...ust-2017-7.jpg https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...st-2017-11.jpg https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...st-2017-12.jpg |
NYguy,
Admittedly I haven't read through the thread, so entertain me. But I was wondering about some of the logistics of this project in particular. - Will this be considered a new station, or do we think it's numbers will be reported with Penn Station's when it's operational? - In that same vein, are trains/platforms being moved to Moynihan, or is this project simply creating a new access to particular platforms. Regardless, what in particular is Moynihan taking from Penn Station in terms of service/access/platforms? Thanks. Love this project. |
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You could consider it an expanded Penn Station, because that's what it will be more or less. But it will be the focal point of Penn Station. The platforms are being extended. The Amtrak and LIRR trains will terminate there, LIRR will also utilize the existing platforms as well as NJ Transit (though Cuomo claims no LIRR passenger will ever have to enter the old Penn Station again). It's similar in a way to the new LIRR terminal at Grand Central, though that one will have new patforms built underneath existing ones. It will all flow together as one station. Eventually, when the Hotel Pennsylvania is demolished, we will have a direct connection to the PATH terminal, as well as more subway lines. That will be very similar to the current Fulton Terminal - WTC PATH Station - Brookfield Place continuous pedestrian concourse. It will stretch from 6th Ave & Broadway all the way to 9th Avenue and the Hudson Yards. |
When the new Gateway tunnels are completed, we could get an expanded station to the south that would look something like this...
http://www.realtransit.org/nec17.php http://www.realtransit.org/images/nec/nec85.png http://www.realtransit.org/images/nec/nec87.png |
So, essentially, Moynihan Station replaces the operations of the LIRR and Amtrak at Penn Station? Does this mean NJ Transit operations stay in Penn Station proper? Just trying to figure out of the three services which ones will be mainly accessed through which "station" as it sounds like Penn Station proper is basically going to lose it's "main" status and become the "back" of the house. Thanks!
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At the end of this clip, you can see the concourse connections currently under Farley... This clip also explains it a little better... |
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I mean seriously, nothing is getting done and even ESA which is under construction has seen 15 years of delays. I'm 32 years old, but if this is built at the same rate of speed of ESA I'll be retired before it's ready to ferry me to work. |
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https://www.reuters.com/article/us-n...-idUSKBN1AQ2J8 New York train tunnel project hires expert in public-private finance Hilary Russ August 10, 2017 Quote:
http://newjersey.news12.com/story/36...tunnel-project Quote:
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