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electricron Dec 13, 2012 8:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baronvonellis (Post 5936538)
He says the maglev is only going to go 50MHP. Why would he spend the insane costs for maglev? Why not just use conventional light rail that would be far cheaper?

Excellent question. Extending Sun Rail to the airport would be far cheaper. While light rail could be built to the airport instead, why when Sun Rail commuter rail exists?

Dale Dec 13, 2012 8:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by electricron (Post 5936846)
Excellent question. Extending Sun Rail to the airport would be far cheaper.

Cheaper for him, not for us.

M II A II R II K Dec 17, 2012 10:46 PM

MetroPlan approves float-on-air train for south Orange

Read More: http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...turistic-train

Quote:

.....

MetroPlan Orlando's go-ahead of the $315 million project came with plenty of caveats, including:

• Approval from the Florida Department of Transportation that the elevated-track system using unusual technology would work as promised. The two-car train relies on electrified magnets to lift it inches off the track to be propelled on a column of air.

• Winning agreements from Orlando, the Greater Orlando Aviation Authority, Orange County, the Orlando Orange County Expressway Authority and FDOT for free use of land each agency owns.

• An in-depth ridership survey and study of potential economic impacts on rental car companies and transit agencies that pay rent to the airport.

• How the train might work with the $1.2 billion SunRail commuter train and how fares might be shared.

.....

- Officials have been skeptical of Morris because he has yet to build or operate a commercially viable train, although he has a short test track operating in Powder Springs, Ga., outside Atlanta. But he failed with two attempts to get his maglev train to work in Volusia County during the mid-1990s and at Old Dominion University in Virginia in 2001. He spent an estimated $16 million in federal, state and private money at Old Dominion before the train was sold for scrap. Morris contends he has fixed the problems that previously plagued his train and pledged he could bring a maglev train to south Orange by 2014. Piquing the interest of local officials is that Morris has formed a partnership with Grupo ACS, one of the largest construction companies in the world.

- Morris said he would run five trains daily at 10-minute intervals, with a top speed of 50 mph. A one-way ticket from the airport to the convention center would cost $13 and would generate enough income to pay for construction costs, as well as operations and maintenance. The train would create 60 permanent jobs, Morris said, plus another 600 jobs would be filled during construction. Harry Barley, who runs MetroPlan, said area leaders should embrace "new and different" approaches to transportation, as long as they protect the region against possible failure. Barley pointed out that there are no privately financed and operated mass-transit systems in the country. A monorail in Las Vegas built with private backing worked for a few years, but fell into bankruptcy when the economy soured. "Things can go wrong," Barley said.

.....



http://media.trb.com/media/photo/2012-12/73670675.jpg

Lakelander Dec 18, 2012 12:05 AM

Speaking of feasibility, what happens when someone opens a cheap shuttle bus service for those looking to bypass being raped for $13/ticket for a ten mile trip?

Dale Dec 18, 2012 5:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M II A II R II K (Post 5941679)

Damn, that's ugly.

ardecila Dec 18, 2012 4:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale (Post 5942157)
Damn, that's ugly.

They could build a taller parapet wall to conceal the chassis, but that would be far more heavy and oppressive-looking. They could also build a "smart track, dumb train" system, but that would be dramatically more expensive and difficult to maintain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lakelander (Post 5941761)
Speaking of feasibility, what happens when someone opens a cheap shuttle bus service for those looking to bypass being raped for $13/ticket for a ten mile trip?

It doesn't happen. I'm guessing airport officials and FDOT officials are conservative, but they won't bat an eye granting a monopoly to the maglev. They control curb space at the airport, so there's plenty of leverage to enforce the monopoly.

Lakelander Dec 18, 2012 7:11 PM

To grant a maglev monopoly, you'd have to rid yourself of everything serving this purpose now and stop planning for Sunrail to connect with AAF at OIA. That's a huge political battle that has little to do with transit. Will the theme parks, hotels, etc. be willing to give up their shuttles? Will the cab industry be willing to lose money so a guy with a maglev can have it all?

eleven=11 Dec 18, 2012 7:37 PM

maglev from the airport with stops at The Mall and conv center
plus a few more ,
It wont compete with Sun Rail , just more ways for people to get to the airport.

Why dont Disney invest some money in the maglev and bring people straight to the parks???

electricron Dec 18, 2012 7:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lakelander (Post 5942859)
To grant a maglev monopoly, you'd have to rid yourself of everything serving this purpose now and stop planning for Sunrail to connect with AAF at OIA. That's a huge political battle that has little to do with transit. Will the theme parks, hotels, etc. be willing to give up their shuttles? Will the cab industry be willing to lose money so a guy with a maglev can have it all?

A guy with a maglev train with non working prototypes to boot.
Golly, if elevated transit is required, there's several proven steel wheel on steel rail examples, and several rubber wheels on steel or concrete beam examples.
Why reinvent the wheel? The wheel has been around for millenniums.

Lakelander Dec 18, 2012 7:48 PM

It will compete because you're pulling from the same limited ridership pool. You'll need as many as possible if you require a high ticket price for it to make sense to build it.Also, Disney currently operates a free airport shuttle. They have no financial reason to invest in Morris' maglev.

aquablue Dec 18, 2012 8:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by electricron (Post 5942903)
A guy with a maglev train with non working prototypes to boot.
Golly, if elevated transit is required, there's several proven steel wheel on steel rail examples, and several rubber wheels on steel or concrete beam examples.
Why reinvent the wheel? The wheel has been around for millenniums.

Maglev is a far better ride, friction less, faster and quieter, I have ridden the Shanghai maglev. It also paves the way for an American Maglev industry to sprout. One one example succeeds, others around the country will use it as an example. Pioneers are always ridiculed, but history books will give them their due. I hope this will be built and it succeeds. Isn't it time that something new and innovative was engineered in the US instead of falling back on what is basically technology from the 1800's (steel wheel on rail)? Higher speed maglev is the future of intercity travel, see Japan. This low speed one will be a good start for the US to get experience with implementing such tech. It is also zero emissions locally and less polluting than shuttle buses (until we get electric buses).

eleven=11 Dec 18, 2012 9:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lakelander (Post 5942921)
It will compete because you're pulling from the same limited ridership pool. You'll need as many as possible if you require a high ticket price for it to make sense to build it.Also, Disney currently operates a free airport shuttle. They have no financial reason to invest in Morris' maglev.

Sun Rail is for locals/ and north orlando
All Aboard is for south miami/palm beach

maglev is for tourists/ & convention center

Lakelander Dec 18, 2012 9:42 PM

Transit in a sprawling state like Florida will quickly fail when you start designing it for specific markets instead of making it useable for the masses. Sunrail and AAF will be used by all who wish to travel to various destinations along their corridors. Short of some guy searching for a sucker to help make his invention come true, there are several more realistic and cost effective options to tie I-Drive with OIA. BTW, I haven't even mentioned the maintenance side of this. What happens when this thing malfunctions? Does connectivity then simply disappear until Morris secures the funds to repair or manufacters the parts? It's not like there are several suppliers of Morris maglev parts out there.

ardecila Dec 19, 2012 7:33 AM

If the rendering is correct, it seems like Morris is proposing to use the Bombardier "Innovia" system (used for Vancouver SkyTrain and NY AirTrain, etc.) but replace the steel wheels with a maglev. This is actually ironic, since the Innovia system originally started as a maglev. Should be plenty of suppliers for this.

I am curious what happens if the power fails, though. Do the electromagnets stop working and the train crashes onto the track beneath? Are there rubber tires to cushion the fall?

electricron Dec 19, 2012 8:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 5943799)
If the rendering is correct, it seems like Morris is proposing to use the Bombardier "Innovia" system (used for Vancouver SkyTrain and NY AirTrain, etc.) but replace the steel wheels with a maglev. This is actually ironic, since the Innovia system originally started as a maglev. Should be plenty of suppliers for this.

I am curious what happens if the power fails, though. Do the electromagnets stop working and the train crashes onto the track beneath? Are there rubber tires to cushion the fall?

The Innovia system at DFW Airport uses rubber tires mounted on wheels, not sure if the wheels are made of steel or another metal.

I'm more worried about they will alight the vehicle if the power fails. I don't see an emergency walkway in the photo, but that doesn't mean they aren't there.

Lakelander Dec 19, 2012 2:50 PM

I still haven't heard a solid list of reasons on how this is financially viable. However, there are a ton of red flags. It takes more than being innovative, cool, or trendsetting to get the ridership to justify a financial commitment to fund and maintain it long term. I'll be surprised if Maglev Morris secures the investors to pay for its construction. My ultimate hope is that Orlando/Florida doesn't end up with the short end of the stick when it goes up in smoke (like Norfolk).

electricron Dec 19, 2012 5:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lakelander (Post 5943958)
I'll be surprised if Maglev Morris secures the investors to pay for its construction. My ultimate hope is that Orlando/Florida doesn't end up with the short end of the stick when it goes up in smoke (like Norfolk).

There are huge differences between Maglev Morris and Norfolk light rail. Maglev Morris is private enterprise at work while Norfolk light rail was always a public enterprise. When public enterprise projects go over budget, the public pays. When private enterprise projects go over budget, the private money pays.
P.S. You can ride Norfolk light rail today, it didn't go up in smoke.

Lakelander Dec 19, 2012 7:01 PM

electricron, I assume you don't know the history of Maglev Morris. Here is the failed Norfolk project I was referring too:

Quote:

After years of testing and over $9 million dollars in taxpayer money, the Old Dominion University maglev train is moving out of town.

The train was supposed to carry students from one end of campus to the other.



But at a cost of $100 million just to build one mile of maglev track, it's too expensive for ODU to use. So, the university is now researching a cheaper way to accomplish the same task.
full article: http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/local_n...in-on-the-move

Quote:

ODU began working on maglev after Georgia-based American Maglev Technology promised in 1999 to deliver a working system in 2002. Technical glitches, cost overruns, unpaid bills and lawsuits derailed the project.
full article: http://hamptonroads.com/2010/01/odus...ars-next-phase

Here is a picture of his failed Norfolk maglev I took back in 2008:

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/pho...4-p1020293.JPG

Dale Dec 19, 2012 9:32 PM

^ Well, no wonder it failed. They never finished the fricking track. :haha:

electricron Dec 19, 2012 10:27 PM

Thanks for the heads up, although it would of helped if you had referred to his ODU project instead of Norfolk in the first place. :)

It's one thing for Universities and other private investors to invest and sink money into research, it's another to expect cities to do so.


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