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-   -   NEW YORK | Moynihan Station / MSG Renovation (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum//showthread.php?t=185034)

Obey Mar 3, 2011 9:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 5185968)
James Dolan would have you shipped to the moon for even suggesting that...:sly:

They've been enjoying their monopoly in the City, and after this year, it will just be Manhattan.

I know, I personally don't think its going to happen. It was just theoretical

scalziand Mar 4, 2011 12:56 AM

One possibility that would have a minimum of disruption would be to have the MSG and Brookfield do a sight swap. MSG gets to stay near Penn station, and Brookfield gets oodles of air rights. New Yorkers get a masterpiece station. Win-win for everyone.

NYguy Mar 4, 2011 3:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scalziand (Post 5186578)
One possibility that would have a minimum of disruption would be to have the MSG and Brookfield do a sight swap.
MSG gets to stay near Penn station, and Brookfield gets oodles of air rights. New Yorkers get a masterpiece station. Win-win for everyone.


Ironically, the Brookfield site was potentially home for NBA headquarters, but that site is zoned for over 5 msf, making a swap unfeasible.
What you would have is a replay of the current MSG blocking unused development rights.


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/77418257/original.jpg


Here's a look at what a new Farley/Moynihan inside the Farley would look like...

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/93450455/original.jpg



http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/93825631/original.jpg



http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/86828840/original.jpg



http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/86828837/original.jpg

Suffice Mar 7, 2011 9:25 AM

@ NY guy

That proposal would take care of a lot of the concerns that people have, aesthetic and practical ones.

But I was wondering what New Yorkers thought about having the main Basketball franchise of the city call a former post office their home? I just think the Knicks have a big more swag than that...

ardecila Mar 7, 2011 10:28 AM

^^ I don't see why a post office is any less swag-tastic than an ugly modernist toilet bowl. If there's any swag to be had in the architecture, it's in the clubhouse, not the facade.

Does anybody actually think MSG is attractive? Obviously the interior's been remodeled numerous times, but the exterior is still pretty awful, and it's crowded out by all the Penn Station entrances. MSG is an outdated inefficient arena sitting on top of an outdated, inefficient rail station. It's really a lose-lose and any option that doesn't move MSG elsewhere will result in a sub-par station. The tunnels are laid out such that the platforms are more or less centered between 8th and 7th, although some of them go a bit further west - that's why the West End Concourse is possible.

The solution shown in NYguy's renderings is perfect - a dedicated headhouse on each side of 8th Avenue, with MSG in the west part of Farley (where it's not above platforms) and a reclad/renovated Two Penn Plaza. I think the architecture could use some work, but the concept is exactly right for New York.

One thing I've never heard discussed is where the postal functions would go. Obviously, that's an important service that needs to remain somewhere in the city.

JSsocal Mar 7, 2011 3:30 PM

As I recall there is a big post office or dispatch or something just south of the rail yards. I'm not sure what it is but its almost 2 city blocks and there are postal service trucks and loading docks there, so I assume they're fine.

Obey Mar 7, 2011 8:06 PM

The one with all the towers is absolutely beautiful.

JACKinBeantown Mar 7, 2011 9:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suffice (Post 5190063)
@ NY guy

That proposal would take care of a lot of the concerns that people have, aesthetic and practical ones.

But I was wondering what New Yorkers thought about having the main Basketball franchise of the city call a former post office their home? I just think the Knicks have a big more swag than that...

Keep in mind that Knicks is short for Knickerbockers... a sort of men's capri pants back in the early 1900s.

Suffice Mar 8, 2011 8:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JACKinNYC (Post 5190613)
Keep in mind that Knicks is short for Knickerbockers... a sort of men's capri pants back in the early 1900s.

Haha, word!

Ok, I'm almost convinced. How bout moving the garden two blocks west - between 10th and 11th over the rail yards. It would replace a dead block and it would be right next to the high line. Picture a retrofuturistic red brick, brass, and oxydated bronze arena complex sitting adjacent to the High line with all the galleries and alternative nightlife in the area. Could make for a pretty sick revitalization kick-start for the Hudson Yards

NYguy Mar 8, 2011 2:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSsocal (Post 5190171)
As I recall there is a big post office or dispatch or something just south of the rail yards. I'm not sure what it is but its almost 2 city blocks and there are postal service trucks and loading docks there, so I assume they're fine.

You're talking about the Morgan facility, which is where most of the postal work is done (the two are connected by a tunnel). The only current postal activity at the Farley building is the retail service, fronting 8th Avenue.



Quote:

Originally Posted by JACKinNYC (Post 5190613)
Keep in mind that Knicks is short for Knickerbockers... a sort of men's capri pants back in the early 1900s.

Also an alternative name for New Yorkers, who were originally Dutch (and wore such things)

Obey Mar 8, 2011 10:11 PM

^^^ That's what I thought it was.

uakoops Mar 9, 2011 2:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 5191524)
You're talking about the Morgan facility, which is where most of the postal work is done (the two are connected by a tunnel). The only current postal activity at the Farley building is the retail service, fronting 8th Avenue.

The plan is to keep the retail windows in the Farley building, although not occupying as much space as it does now.

NYguy Mar 9, 2011 2:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uakoops (Post 5192465)
The plan is to keep the retail windows in the Farley building, although not occupying as much space as it does now.

Right, and it looks magnificent (you get plenty of time to look if you ever go in for service). MSG (the Dolans) at one point wanted to use those windows for MSG ticketing, but the postal service won't be moving out of that space.

NYguy Mar 10, 2011 5:20 PM

Check the link meanwhile for construction updates on the arena...
http://msgtransformation.com/Transformation.aspx#

Obey Mar 10, 2011 10:00 PM

Since they are renovating it, then there is no way they are moving...right?

CoolCzech Mar 10, 2011 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patriotizzy (Post 5184039)
Make this happen NAO!

Wow, this would be beautiful if it ever gets built.

CoolCzech Jul 3, 2011 12:00 AM

http://msgtransformation.com/Transformation.aspx#

Well, since the OLD Madison Square Garden is in the process of being completely renovated... I guess it will NOT be a part of Moynihan Station.

What's up with Moynihan Station? Is this project dead?

Nexis4Jersey Jul 3, 2011 1:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoolCzech (Post 5335692)
http://msgtransformation.com/Transformation.aspx#

Well, since the OLD Madison Square Garden is in the process of being completely renovated... I guess it will NOT be a part of Moynihan Station.

What's up with Moynihan Station? Is this project dead?

I haven't heard anything about it , but they did put up signs.... As for a New Station in this region , i wouldn't rule it out sometime over the next 30 years.

KVNBKLYN Jul 3, 2011 3:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoolCzech (Post 5335692)
http://msgtransformation.com/Transformation.aspx#

Well, since the OLD Madison Square Garden is in the process of being completely renovated... I guess it will NOT be a part of Moynihan Station.

What's up with Moynihan Station? Is this project dead?

Depends what you mean by Moynihan Station.

The renovation of the Farley building into a new entrance for Amtrak users is now referred to as Phase II. Phase I, which only includes building the West End concourse beneath the Farley building and upgrading the ventilation systems of Penn Station, has begun pre-construction, but won't get fully underway until next year (see below).

As for demolishing Madison Square Garden and creating a great new above-ground portion of Penn Station (sometimes referred to as Moynihan West), that's not in the cards for now or the foreseeable future, largely because MSG doesn't want to move. MSG has embarked on pretty lame (but oddly expensive) interior renovations (as mentioned above) probably because they will have real competition for events starting next year when the Barclay Center opens. I have a feeling if Barclay starts seriously cutting into MSG's concert and event business, they might be motivated to go ahead with a more ambitious renovation that could include substantial renovations to Penn, or even move to a new facility altogether. But that's all speculation on my part.

From Moynihan Phase I project pdfs on the ESDC's website:

Phase 1 Schedule
Design
100% Construction Documents – August 2011
Procurement
Release Construction Management RFP – May 2011
Release Construction Contractors RFQ – May 2011
Release Bid Package (s) – September 2011
Construction
Preliminary Work Order Contract – Summer 2011
Initial Amtrak Force Account Begins – Fall 2011
Phase 1 Construction Begins – March 2012
Phase 1 Construction Complete – September 2016

NYguy Jul 29, 2011 4:29 AM

NY Post

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/m...ce=Post10Alpha

WATCH: Workers transform MSG in amazing time-lapse video

http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2011...0--300x300.jpg

Knicks star forward Carmelo Anthony marvels earlier this summer at the pace crews
at Madison Square Garden are working to finish the first phase of the renovation.


By JEREMY OLSHAN
July 28, 2011

Quote:

A thousand construction workers have been splitting round-the-clock shifts to complete the first phase of the renovation, which includes a completely new lower bowl, new locker rooms and event-level suites for the home of the Knicks, Rangers and St. John's.

New dark, almost Yankees-blue seats have been installed throughout the lower bowl, and over the next two years will be added throughout the arena. But the seating won’t be entirely monochrome, MSG president Hank Ratner said. Roughly 1,000 lighter blue seats will be installed in the upper bowl to pay homage to the ones way up in the rafters which were once the MSG equivalent of the Yankee Stadium bleachers.

Much of the work will be completed over the next two summers, including the sky bridges that will each hold 500 seats.

Video Link

Nexis4Jersey Aug 4, 2011 1:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KVNBKLYN (Post 5335817)
Depends what you mean by Moynihan Station.

The renovation of the Farley building into a new entrance for Amtrak users is now referred to as Phase II. Phase I, which only includes building the West End concourse beneath the Farley building and upgrading the ventilation systems of Penn Station, has begun pre-construction, but won't get fully underway until next year (see below).

As for demolishing Madison Square Garden and creating a great new above-ground portion of Penn Station (sometimes referred to as Moynihan West), that's not in the cards for now or the foreseeable future, largely because MSG doesn't want to move. MSG has embarked on pretty lame (but oddly expensive) interior renovations (as mentioned above) probably because they will have real competition for events starting next year when the Barclay Center opens. I have a feeling if Barclay starts seriously cutting into MSG's concert and event business, they might be motivated to go ahead with a more ambitious renovation that could include substantial renovations to Penn, or even move to a new facility altogether. But that's all speculation on my part.

From Moynihan Phase I project pdfs on the ESDC's website:

Phase 1 Schedule
Design
100% Construction Documents – August 2011
Procurement
Release Construction Management RFP – May 2011
Release Construction Contractors RFQ – May 2011
Release Bid Package (s) – September 2011
Construction
Preliminary Work Order Contract – Summer 2011
Initial Amtrak Force Account Begins – Fall 2011
Phase 1 Construction Begins – March 2012
Phase 1 Construction Complete – September 2016

Still won't change the fact that MSG sucks , they need to move and build an all new arena.....

pico44 Aug 5, 2011 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey (Post 5368230)
Still won't change the fact that MSG sucks , they need to move and build an all new arena.....


I agree, but we're probably gonna have to wait a good 15 years after all the money spent on this renovation.

NYguy Sep 28, 2011 2:27 PM

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/21/di...s-upgrade.html

At Madison Square Garden, it’s Hey, Getcher Lobster Roll

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/...ticleLarge.jpg

Madison Square Garden will reopen with a new menu, including, from left, Andrew Carmellini's brats braised in Belgian beer, Drew Nieporent's Daily Burger and Jean-Georges Vongerichten's Simply Chicken.

By GLENN COLLINS
September 20, 2011

Quote:

After being closed for 20 weeks, Madison Square Garden is about to unveil its new upgraded carte du jour as part of a six-year, $850 million refurbishment.

Sausage Boss by Andrew Carmellini is one of four new concessions that high-end restaurateurs have created to serve mainstream food at the 43-year-old arena. Jean-Georges Vongerichten will offer Simply Chicken, Drew Nieporent will serve up burgers at Daily Burger and Jeremy Marshall of Aquagrill will open Lobster and Shrimp Roll, which pretty much describes his fare.

Also coming will be pastrami, corned beef and knishes from the Carnegie Deli; chopped brisket — and hand-carved prime rib — sandwiches from Hill Country; kosher food from Carlos & Gabby’s; a gluten-free concession; and desserts from Magnolia Bakery.

Long-suffering fans — some of whom have smuggled in peanut butter and jelly sandwiches to temper the cost and agita of dining at the Garden, are about to enter a new era. “We are quite passionate about the food,” said Hank J. Ratner, the arena’s president.

___________________________________


http://nymag.com/daily/sports/2011/0...e-tastier.html
The New Madison Square Garden Will Be Tastier

http://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/sp.../a_560x375.jpg

By Seth Rosenthal
9/21/11

Quote:

First of all, a quick salute to shitty arena food. Madison Square Garden's concessions, at least in my lifetime, have always been a unique, appropriately offensive experience. Something about the meek floppiness of those personal pizzas or the lardaceous glistening of Ranch One chicken and fries seemed an ideal accompaniment to, say, watching the Knicks or Rangers. Times are changing, though. As the Garden rounds out the first of its summertime renovations, those in charge will hop on board with the sportswide craze of offering choicer concessions. Stands curated by chefs and options for a wider range of tastes and dietary restrictions will line the arena's widened network of concourses. The Times has the details...

And if you read the article, there's much more. I want very badly to be a traditionalist and thumb my nose (getting grease all over my nose in the process) at fancy concessions, but ... damn, that sounds delicious. Of course, if you give a fan an organic chicken sandwich with spicy mayonnaise, he'll probably ask for somewhere to ... go with it.

Does the new Garden accommodate the enjoyment of such exquisite dishes?

NYguy Oct 18, 2011 2:49 PM

redwingx

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6213/...4b37024a_b.jpg



http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6171/...c7d554e3_b.jpg



http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6032/...703094e6_b.jpg



http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6211/...1e37aa0a_b.jpg



http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6046/...a6fac603_b.jpg



http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6054/...672cec88_b.jpg



http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6167/...17ff80fa_b.jpg



http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6032/...b45d7b8a_b.jpg



http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6050/...37a6d586_b.jpg

dwntwnr Oct 18, 2011 4:08 PM

Hey! I was on the exact same tour as the guy who posted those Open House New York pics. It was super interesting. That place is cavernous. here are some interesting things they mentioned:

-The tracks already exist under Moynihan as they used to load the back ends of trains with mail so it was loaded out of the back while the passengers in the front would exit out of Penn station.

The phase after that will take an additional 4 years or so and will involve entrances at 31/8th and 33 and 8th corners, then the Inter-modal passage (the mid-block connecter between the old and newer buildings that will serve as the taxi drop off and central entrance to the tracks

-Construction will definitely start for the first four year phase next year. Mainly work on track ventilation to bring the area up to safety code for passengers. With the Hudson Yards being built there's nowhere for smoke to go in a fire so they're installing 4-6 huge fans to ventilate the substructure.

-The post office has been shrinking inside the building. the vast majority of it has been empty for the last ten years. Immensely spacious open rooms with elements (restrooms, etc.) that are largely unchanged from the 1910's.

-We should be seeing a new rendering next year. There will not be a potato chip glass structure in the inter-modal hall as anything that's visible from the street must keep in line with the look of the original landmarked structure.

-They are evaluating different options to make the station pay for itself (train stations in themselves don't make money) They mentioned making it a retail destination and perhaps installing a boutique hotel. They even mentioned a big-box store (Target, department stores) moving into the western side. This makes sense as the floor plates are immense.

-The station will serve intercity trains whereas Penn station across the street will primarily serve commuter traffic. The idea is that commuters don't spend time in the station so it is okay to be more functional than aesthetic, wheres the Moynihan will be an entrance into the city for travelers and will have amenities like Grand Central so that people enjoy spending time there.

-There will be some kind of pedestrian passageway that follows the course of 32nd street through the block.

I'm super excited for this project!

NYguy Oct 18, 2011 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwntwnr (Post 5448215)
With the Hudson Yards being built there's nowhere for smoke to go in a fire so they're installing 4-6 huge fans to ventilate the substructure.

When you take the train into Penn Station, you can see that the rails are already in place beneath the building, but its the large opening just before where Brookfield plans to build the huge Manhattan West complex. My only (small) regret is that it will block out that one peek of actual daylight that signals you are about to enter Penn Station. However, plans called for some daylight to actually reach the platforms below, so we'll see.

ethereal_reality Oct 19, 2011 2:40 PM

This is a very exciting project. Thanks for all the information NYguy and dwntwnr.

KVNBKLYN Oct 19, 2011 5:11 PM

I went on a tour of the building last night. It was too dark to take good photos, but I have a couple bits of information to add:

1. The construction schedule for Phase I (the West End Concourse expansion and ventilation work) is four years from the beginning of 2012. Even though the scope of work isn't huge, they're severely limited to the times of day that they can do work (only nights and weekends) because of the volume of train traffic directly below where they'll be working. So look for the concourse to open in 2016!

2. Phase II is dependent on funding, which would largely come from the sale of the 2 million square feet of air rights to potential adjacent development. The idea is that once this funding is secured, the construction schedule would be shorter than Phase I because it would not affect the trains below. In fact, Phase II would likely run concurrently with Phase I and finish at the same time, so depending on the health of the NYC office market (which seems to be doing pretty well), you could be boarding Amtrak trains from the new hall also in 2016.

3. We also talked about the MSG Renovation. I've suspected that MSG is doing a phased renovation now because they want to keep their options open in case the Barclays Center really starts to cut into their business in 2012 and MSG decides that it in fact needs a new facility. The guy from the Moynihan Station Redevepment Corporation shot down my theory, though. He believes that MSG will be staying put at least for the foreseeable future (10 years or so). He also mentioned something that I hadn't known but found interesting: MSG will not be renovating the exterior of their building because to do so would lose them their property tax abatement. Not sure on the specifics, but that abatement is substantial (I think they pay no property taxes per se and only make negotiated "payments in lieu of taxes", or PILOTs, to the city). Too bad since the exterior is the worst thing about that building.

And one final note: I think the general public and some people who read about this project on this thread are still under the impression that this is a new train station independent of Penn Station. (A woman on the tour asked if Penn Station would close down when Moynihan Station opened!) This is not a new station. The station is where the trains stop and the tracks and platforms will be where they have always been. What's called Moynihan Station is just a new entrance to Penn Station with greatly improved passenger facilities.

yankeesfan1000 Oct 19, 2011 7:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KVNBKLYN (Post 5449616)
2. Phase II is dependent on funding, which would largely come from the sale of the 2 million square feet of air rights to potential adjacent development. The idea is that once this funding is secured, the construction schedule would be shorter than Phase I because it would not affect the trains below. In fact, Phase II would likely run concurrently with Phase I and finish at the same time, so depending on the health of the NYC office market (which seems to be doing pretty well), you could be boarding Amtrak trains from the new hall also in 2016.

That I did not know, and is great to hear. At the very least, it's a good sign that they have a way to fund Phase II, or at least a large portion of it.

Thanks for info.

NYguy Oct 20, 2011 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KVNBKLYN (Post 5449616)
I think the general public and some people who read about this project on this thread are still under the impression that this is a new train station independent of Penn Station. (A woman on the tour asked if Penn Station would close down when Moynihan Station opened!) This is not a new station. The station is where the trains stop and the tracks and platforms will be where they have always been. What's called Moynihan Station is just a new entrance to Penn Station with greatly improved passenger facilities.

I think the name confuses some people, and the fact that above ground it is something "new", and would appear to be accross the street. But underground, it all connects. The platforms beneath Moynihan are there, but there is no public access as it now stands. Trains currently stop between 7th and 8th Avenues, with a little walking to reach either exit. The difference between Moynihan and where Amtrak and NJ Transit trains now stop is shown in the image below:

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6032/...b45d7b8a_b.jpg

A block may not seem like a lot, but it is in terms of the way Penn Station works. It is sometimes impossible to even get into the station when the crowds are so large. But the new Moynihan station will releive that as it expands into the Farley building with a large, new concurse/terminus. But beyond that, it gives the station a visible presence as well, something that it lost when the original was demolished. One final thing to keep in mind - the LIRR, which is the largest user of Penn Station, will continue to operate where it currently does, even as it expands into Grand Central.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6171/...c7d554e3_b.jpg


______________________________________


Meanwhile,

http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2011/1...are_garden.php
Here Now, a Sneak Peek at the New Madison Square Garden

http://cdn.cstatic.net/cache/gallery...710595e2_o.jpg

Wednesday, October 19, 2011, by Sara Polsky

Quote:

Madison Square Garden is in the midst of a long-awaited $775 million makeover, and the pieces of that makeover are finally starting to come together. The powers that be at the Garden led a press tour this afternoon, and while we weren't invited (where's the love, MSG?), we spied a few pics on the @MSGnyc Twitter feed. In the gallery above, some views of the West Balcony, the lower bowl, the new 8th floor Garden Concourse, and the future location of those 200-foot-long catwalks, which we now know will be called the Chase Bridges. We're a little sad to see the disappearance of the teal and purple seating color scheme, but the catwalks will cheer us up.

http://cdn.cstatic.net/cache/gallery...058a04a3_o.jpg


http://cdn.cstatic.net/cache/gallery...0ffeaa00_o.jpg
Where the skybridges, called Chase Bridges, will be


http://cdn.cstatic.net/cache/gallery...08e1c99f_o.jpg


http://cdn.cstatic.net/cache/gallery...96a36617_o.jpg

redwingx Oct 20, 2011 11:53 AM

Hi, first time poster. :) I took a number of the photographs displayed above during the Open House New York tour, which was FASCINATING. An amazing, amazing building and an amazing, amazing transformation it's undergoing. I've posted more pictures an my write up of the tour/experience surrounding the building here:

Moynihan Station Tour

Definitely an exciting project.

NYguy Oct 20, 2011 10:54 PM

^ Very nice. Thanks for the photos.

A few more...

gsz

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6180/...8098e1c2_b.jpg



http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6053/...dfea07a0_b.jpg

NYguy Oct 20, 2011 10:59 PM

In other Moynihan related news...

http://www.moynihanstation.org/newsite/

Moynihan Station development office to be folded into the Port Authority

Juliette Michaelson
October 19, 2011

Quote:

In nominating Pat Foye to be Executive Director of the Port Authority, Gov. Andrew Cuomo also called for consolidating the Moynihan Station Development Corporation - the state agency in charge of developing the new train station - into the Port Authority.

The Port Authority has been involved with Moynihan Station since early 2010, when Gov. Paterson charged it to manage the construction of the station hand in hand with MSDC.

A full transfer to the PA and the likely dissolution of MSDC makes sense as the project moves into a construction phase. (The PA has more experience managing construction than MSDC, most recently at the World Trade Center). A construction management team was recently hired, and construction bids from several prequalified bidders were solicited earlier this month. Bids are due back in early December, and work would begin in the late winter.

In addition to the PA's construction-management experience, the Authority might also be able to provide more funding to Moynihan Station than cash-strapped New York State.




http://nycapitolnews.com/wordpress/2...-midtown-push/

Cuomo Shuffle Gives Port Authority A Midtown Push

By Adam Lisberg
October 20, 2011

Quote:

By naming one of his deputies to run the Port Authority yesterday and putting the agency in charge of building an expanded Moynihan Station in Midtown, Gov. Andrew Cuomo put another footprint in the center of Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s New York City.

In a statement, Cuomo said taking Moynihan Station away from the Empire State Development Corp. and putting it into the hands of the Port Authority was simply a matter of fiscal prudence. The Lower Manhattan Development Corp., which is still disbursing federal aid downtown, will also be subsumed into the Port Authority.

“Too many different agencies doing the same or closely related work makes little sense,” Cuomo said. “The Port Authority is best situated to oversee the development at Moynihan Station and the orderly wind down of the LMDC and these changes will consolidate responsibility within the Authority.”

ethereal_reality Oct 20, 2011 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 5451528)

:previous: I LOVE this so much. Is it from an earlier design?

KVNBKLYN Oct 21, 2011 1:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 5451579)
:previous: I LOVE this so much. Is it from an earlier design?

That's SOM's first proposal. It's probably been dead for almost 10 years now. It's derisively known as the potato chip. I thought it was pretty interesting, but it's not to be.

According to the guy who led the tour, new renderings for a new design will be coming out by the end of the year.

KVNBKLYN Oct 21, 2011 1:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 5451536)

Moynihan Station development office to be folded into the Port Authority

That's good news! Hopefully this is just a first step toward PA control over the whole of Penn Station. One of the worst things about Penn is that it's divvied up between LIRR, NJT and Amtrak who all seem intent on making it more maze-like. Each agency remodels their particular fiefdom in a different style than the others and there's even a hallway (the Hilton corridor) that none of them claim and hasn't been renovated since before MSG was built above.

NYguy Oct 24, 2011 12:23 PM

Yes, Moynihan has gone through a variety of designs, none of them built. The transit hall itself has been pretty consistent though.


http://www.northjersey.com/news/opin...n_Station.html

Herald News: Keep PA out of Moynihan Station

Sunday, October 23, 2011

Quote:

Moynihan envisioned creating a new, sweeping concourse across the street in the Farley Post Office, which was a companion structure to the original Penn Station. This new station would be a more appropriate gateway to New York than the current Penn Station. We agree with that in theory. But let's face facts. The big push is for a foyer, a gateway, nothing more. In case elected and appointed officials on both sides of the Hudson River have missed the news flash: The golden age of railroading is long gone.

What we hoped was also long gone was the Port Authority's assumption of projects that have nothing to do with its core mission. Right now, commuters are eating a substantial toll hike on the George Washington Bridge.

Memo to Governor Christie: Tell Cuomo, Port Authority Chairman David Samson (your appointee) and Foye to get the hell out of a rail station that serves Amtrak, NJ Transit and the Long Island Rail Road. If New York wants a foyer, let them find the money elsewhere. Perhaps even private money.

__________________


http://www.newsday.com/opinion/edito...rity-1.3264114

Editorial: Full plate at the Port Authority

October 21, 2011

Quote:

As distinguished as his accomplishments are, Patrick Foye, chosen by Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo last week to run the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, has never undertaken a challenge like this. Few people have.

But the Port Authority brings with it an entirely different level of responsibility. It's massive in both size and scope, ranging through two states and combining five airports, two tunnels, four bridges, the PATH transit system, 10 real estate developments, a large maritime shipping operation and a police force. The Port Authority Foye oversees will be broader than the one his predecessor, Chris Ward, is leaving, because Cuomo also announced the agency will take over the Moynihan train station project, near Penn Station, and the Lower Manhattan Development Corp.

Putting these under the auspices of the Port Authority makes sense. The conversion of the Farley Post Office into Moynihan Station to provide new access to the trains underneath is essentially a construction challenge, and building is what the authority does best.

hammersklavier Oct 24, 2011 2:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 5454678)
http://www.northjersey.com/news/opin...n_Station.html

Herald News: Keep PA out of Moynihan Station

Sunday, October 23, 2011

This just makes me sad. Hard to believe people are still crawled up under rocks and refuse to believe how broad-ranging the imminent impacts of peak oil will be...

NYC4Life Oct 27, 2011 1:46 PM

The New York Times

After 16,000 Miles, the Rangers Skate on Home Ice

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/...ticleLarge.jpg
Barton Silverman/The New York Times

The Rangers got a rare treat Wednesday: a chance to practice on the ice at Madison Square Garden.

By JEFF Z. KLEIN
Published: October 26, 2011

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/27/sp...home-game.html

Quote:

When Rangers fans enter Madison Square Garden on Thursday for the first sports event at the newly renovated arena, they will find better sightlines, some upper-bowl seats seemingly cantilevered over the ice, interior corridors at least twice the width of the narrow old ones, luxury suites that look like Manhattan apartments, many more restrooms — in short, a vastly improved building.

But for John Tortorella, the Rangers’ always pithy coach, architectural niceties are of secondary importance. “What makes a building good is winning in it,” he said Wednesday.

The Rangers will finally play in New York after opening the season on a 16,000-mile trip, perhaps the longest undertaken by an N.H.L. team. (The Canucks traveled 13,000 miles while their home rink was reconfigured for the 2010 Olympics.)

After 36 days that took the Rangers from the Atlantic Ocean to the Baltic Sea, back across the Atlantic and on to the Pacific, then back to the Atlantic again, they are, in the words of their captain, Ryan Callahan, “excited to be home.”


© 2011 The New York Times Company

alphachap Oct 29, 2011 11:25 AM

Pennsylvania Station 1910-1963
 
" But beyond that, it gives the station a visible presence as well, something that it lost when the original was demolished."

For those who don't know about the original, see this:
http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16934

"Any city gets what it admires, will pay for, and, ultimately, deserves.
Even when we had Penn Station, we couldn’t afford to keep it clean.
We want and deserve tin-can architecture in a tinhorn culture.
And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed."

- "Farewell to Penn Station," New York Times editorial, October 30, 1963 (as found on nyc-architecture.com)

NYguy Oct 31, 2011 11:45 AM

Of all the buildings demolished in New York over its history, the destruction of Penn Station is probably the one that stands out most, and had the most impact on how we see things today.

CoolCzech Dec 11, 2011 6:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 5362640)
NY Post

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/m...ce=Post10Alpha

WATCH: Workers transform MSG in amazing time-lapse video

http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2011...0--300x300.jpg

Knicks star forward Carmelo Anthony marvels earlier this summer at the pace crews
at Madison Square Garden are working to finish the first phase of the renovation.


By JEREMY OLSHAN
July 28, 2011


Video Link

Most amazing this about it is, All that work and it looks the same at the end. :rolleyes:

J. Will Dec 12, 2011 3:23 AM

The 'malling' of Manhattan

http://therealdeal.com/newyork/artic...g-of-manhattan

http://s3.amazonaws.com/trd_three/im...54/mall-lg.jpg

Quote:

Farley Post Office/Moynihan Station

Another potentially enormous project, the expansion of Pennsylvania Station into the Farley Post Office building just to the west, would add as much as 750,000 square feet of retail in the Beaux Arts building.

The project, to be named in honor of late U.S. Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan, would create a new retail destination to bookend vibrant West 34th Street. However, it's by no means certain. Vornado and Related, which partnered to strike a deal with the state in 2006 to develop the retail, face a year-end deadline to solidify the financial terms.

Furthermore, three avenues to the east are two malls that provide cautionary tales to retailers. The Manhattan Mall and the Herald Center, both within spitting distance of Macy's on Sixth Avenue at 34th Street, were reimagined in the 1980s, but failed and were recreated in scaled-down forms again in subsequent years.

Yet in the project's favor is the massive amount of commuter foot traffic in the area. In 2010, Penn Station was the busiest transportation facility in the country, with 600,000 passengers daily.

The first phase of the project broke ground last fall and focuses on the transportation infrastructure. The retail post office will remain in place on the Eighth Avenue side of the building, with new entrances for commuters to ease congestion into Penn Station.

The retail development -- which Vornado and Related are doing with the property owner, Empire State Development Corporation, and in consultation with the Port Authority -- is part of the project's second phase, which could include a hotel or other amenities. That has not yet started.

One set of plans from the state's Moynihan Station Development Corporation shows a possible street-level layout with seven spaces comprising more than 106,000 square feet of retail, including blocks of "destination retail" on the Ninth Avenue side of the building. It also shows blocks of up to 50,000 square feet on other levels in the six-story building.

"That is a great building," Grayson said, referring to the 1912 McKim, Mead & White icon.

"It starts with heritage. If you put [in] the right kind of tenant, it can be really exciting," he said, pointing to examples in historic buildings such as Chelsea Market.

THE BIG APPLE Dec 12, 2011 3:29 AM

The Garden kinda looks like the Coliseum (with a roof) during parts of the renovation time-lapse.

NYC4Life Dec 12, 2011 4:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoolCzech (Post 5512600)
Most amazing this about it is, All that work and it looks the same at the end. :rolleyes:

Perhaps, because it's just the first phase that's been completed so far.

NYguy Dec 28, 2011 9:51 PM

^ Yeah, it's being done in stages over 3 years.


http://secondavenuesagas.com/2011/12...y-cant-afford/
Building a home for Amtrak they can’t afford

http://secondavenuesagas.com/wp-cont...nStationSM.jpg

By Benjamin Kabak
December 28, 2011

Quote:

Over the past decade and a half, spurred on first by Daniel Patrick Moynihan and later by supporters who wanted to continue his efforts, well-connected New Yorkers have fought for an expansion of Penn Station into the Farley Post Office. Part of their reasoning is to boost train service and ease customer congestion underneath Madison Square Garden while the rest of their efforts are driven by the idea of a Great Public Work. Penn Station, they rightfully say, is an eye sore. It’s dirt, dingy and ugly, and the post office would provide a setting of grandeur that could right the wrong of destroying the original Beaux Arts building.

To that end, the project has been divided into two parts. Phase 1 includes better egress points into the current Penn Station, and it is currently funded and ongoing. Phase 2, which will cost upwards of $1 billion, involves moving Amtrak’s operations into the Moynihan Station area and perhaps readying the station for high-speed rail if the stars and money align properly. That is more of a dream right now than anything else....

_______________________________________________


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-1...oo-costly.html
Amtrak Says It Needs NY Station That May Be Too Costly

By Lisa Caruso
Dec 15, 2011

Quote:


For Amtrak to move more passengers on trains between Washington and Boston, its only profitable route, it must move out of New York’s Penn Station, said Drew Galloway, assistant vice president for the eastern region. The new space it covets is across the street, where New York state and two developers plan to transform the 97-year-old James A. Farley Post Office into a $1 billion train hall and retail complex.

The rub: Officials at U.S. taxpayer-subsidized Amtrak, which lost $1.3 billion last fiscal year, say they can’t afford to leave Penn Station, which the railroad owns, unless their new home is effectively rent-free. With the development’s finances unresolved, New York officials haven’t made guarantees. “Either we are able to expand the station capacity to accommodate more passengers, or we can’t expand the service on the corridor,” Galloway said. “It’s that simple.”

Other potential sources of project funding have dried up or face constraints. Congress last month killed the fiscal 2012 budget for President Barack Obama’s high-speed rail program and cut Amtrak’s annual subsidy by $65 million. The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which is managing construction for the state, raised tolls in August by 56 percent over five years to shore up its budget. The real estate developers will spend money on the project after negotiating final terms with the state, Timothy Gilchrist, president of Moynihan Station Development Corp., a unit of New York state’s business-investment agency, said in an interview.

NYguy Dec 30, 2011 6:14 AM

A quick 5 minute look at what's going on with the Monynihan Station development...


Video Link

NYguy Feb 9, 2012 1:14 AM

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/12/ar...er=rss&emc=rss

Restore a Gateway to Dignity

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/...ticleLarge.jpg

By MICHAEL KIMMELMAN
February 8, 2012

Quote:

It’s time to address the calamity that is Penn Station.

Nearly a half-century has passed since the destruction of the great 1910 station designed by Charles Follen McKim of McKim, Mead & White, a “monumental act of vandalism,” as an editorial in The New York Times called the demolition in 1963. It was replaced by Penn Plaza and Madison Square Garden, Modernist mediocrities, erected to serve real estate interests, with a new subterranean Penn Station entombed below.

Some 600,000 commuters, riding Amtrak, Long Island Rail Road and New Jersey Transit, now suffer Penn Station every day. That makes it probably the busiest transit hub in the Western world, busier than Heathrow Airport in London, busier than Newark, La Guardia and Kennedy airports combined. To pass through Grand Central Terminal, one of New York’s exalted public spaces, is an ennobling experience, a gift. To commute via the bowels of Penn Station, just a few blocks away, is a humiliation.

...the only way to fix Penn properly is to move Madison Square Garden.

Why? Because the open secret about the Moynihan plan is that Amtrak alone would move across Eighth Avenue. Long Island Rail Road, New Jersey Transit and the subways wouldn’t budge. And only 30,000 of those 600,000 people who use Penn Station each day take Amtrak, never mind all the subway riders passing through.

We have become a city too cynical about big change, resigned to the impossibility of unraveling bureaucratic entanglements, beholden to private interests, inured to commercialism and compromise.

We depend on developers to improve neighborhoods, and at the same time we waste unconscionable amounts of public money on architectural follies like the much-delayed World Trade Center PATH station, which is projected, even after ground zero is fully developed, to serve only perhaps 60,000 riders and whose exploding cost is already approaching $4 billion, a scandal still waiting to dawn on New Yorkers.


But demolishing the Javits Center also presents a possible solution to Penn Station. The thought is: Move Madison Square Garden to the southern end of the Javits site, at 34th Street and 11th Avenue. That is a prime location in what is hoped to become the busy intersection of a new Midtown South. The state, in conjunction with the city, would provide the Garden’s owners with a turnkey, or at least a very generous, deal: a new riverfront arena, partly financed by the substantial air rights gained in return for acquiring the Garden’s present site. The new arena, unlike the current Garden, would compete as an up-to-date sports and entertainment center with the one rising at Atlantic Yards in Brooklyn.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/package...ls-webPENN.png

yankeesfan1000 Feb 9, 2012 2:38 AM

At the end of the day, the non transferable air rights that currently occupy the block that houses Penn Station and MSG are way too valuable to be left undeveloped.

Unfortunately the Dolans opted for a renovation as opposed to a move and a new arena. But with the snow ball pace of the convention center deal, the immense value of that real estate as residential, or mixed use of some sort, and the fact that MSG just finished their renovations, I really doubt that the timing would line up for the garden to move to where the Javits is now.

With that in mind, a move to the Farley Post Office seems to be the most logical place. The Far West Side where the Javits Center is now, will develop into a great neighborhood on its own because of the immense amount of park space that will be built, some of which is under construction now. But that stretch along 9th Avenue could really use a boost like a new arena.

I just hope the Dolans realize that the Far West Side/Javits Center site, and the Farley Post Office Building could be their last real opportunities to relocate to a prime site within Manhattan. But given that it's the Dolans, I'm expecting the worse, which is for them to stay put.

aquablue Feb 9, 2012 4:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yankeesfan1000 (Post 5583249)
At the end of the day, the non transferable air rights that currently occupy the block that houses Penn Station and MSG are way too valuable to be left undeveloped.

Unfortunately the Dolans opted for a renovation as opposed to a move and a new arena. But with the snow ball pace of the convention center deal, the immense value of that real estate as residential, or mixed use of some sort, and the fact that MSG just finished their renovations, I really doubt that the timing would line up for the garden to move to where the Javits is now.

With that in mind, a move to the Farley Post Office seems to be the most logical place. The Far West Side where the Javits Center is now, will develop into a great neighborhood on its own because of the immense amount of park space that will be built, some of which is under construction now. But that stretch along 9th Avenue could really use a boost like a new arena.

I just hope the Dolans realize that the Far West Side/Javits Center site, and the Farley Post Office Building could be their last real opportunities to relocate to a prime site within Manhattan. But given that it's the Dolans, I'm expecting the worse, which is for them to stay put.

Well, it's quite clear that they won't be moving for decades now unless somebody comes along with some major deal to these owners. They pumped hundreds of millions into this renovation, so the city blew its chance to make a deal last time. I don't see them ever moving to the Javitz area.

I'm so sickened by this waste of an opportunity. This article is years too late. I remember little outcry about Penn when they were planning that last deal and very little public interest or hype about it. Why bother writing this now?

He's right though, the Farley is a poor excuse for a restoration of Penn since it will only process a small percentage of people. They better do something to improve the dungeon that is Penn if this is the way it's going to be for decades.

Is there no other way they could open it up by demolishing another building or digging up roads?

How about building a new station adjacent to the tracks on another block and have passageways connecting this new headhouse with the platforms for LIRR/NJT?

Does anybody know if the original Penn had platforms/tracks open to the light? If not, all we need is a decent head-house for all to make up for the loss.

Also, why don't they just take over the entire Farley building and use it for everything, not just amtrak.. it appears big enough if the annex is incorporated, no?


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